Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Unholyground]

Sort of, I was trained to do a similar (ish) move in the military, and used it a couple times overseas. There are several VERY important differences though.

So the main reason you do it is to stop a person from bashing open their face, it isn't intended to really keep you safe, it is to keep the person being detained safe. If you have them on their front, with the legs fully extended and your foot preventing lateral movement, their neck is really the only movement they can have. If someone is REALLY angry or high, they will sometimes lash their head around furiously trying to bite you or something, and in the process smash their face open.

So what I was taught is to place the knee against the lower jaw (Gently, don't slam it down, just lower the knee slowly), and press the side of their face into the ground. NOT on the fleshy part of the neck, and NOT for more then 10-15 seconds at a time. Most of the time this immobilization stops the struggle, and you immediately release pressure.

There is a world of difference between that, which is a legitimate technique, and deliberately murdering someone by crushing his windpipe for 9 minutes. But at least in the military, the pressure on the neck (Jaw really) is something they teach, and it feels safe and appropriate when used correctly.

Detaining war criminals as a well trained and disciplined military personnel VS weekend racist cop training. I take the military option lol.

[Endus]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tulsa-...an-we-ought-to



Police officer who claims that the police don't shoot enough black people also claims that systemic racism and abuse of power doesn't exist.

That he can internalize and believe such a nonsense contradiction is like, the fucking problem.

Let's also point out that the idea that blacks are just "more violent/criminal" is an inherently racist position.

The moment you acknowledge that economic status is the main component, you acknowledge the economic divides along racial lines, which are also the product of systemic racism.

This isn't even accidental. This is explicitly intended to play out this way.

[Thekri]

Detaining war criminals as a well trained and disciplined military personnel VS weekend racist cop training. I take the military option lol.

To be fair, none of the people I detained were exactly war criminals. Mostly they were just high as fuck and waving guns around. You detain them, sit them in a corner while you do your business, and release them before you leave.

Which is why it really bothers me that cops open fire at the first suspicion of a gun, while Soldiers deescalate situations where people are waving automatic weapons while obviously high on drugs. Granted, Soldiers do sometimes shoot those people, but like 95% of the time you can disarm them safely.

[Muzjhath]

To be fair, none of the people I detained were exactly war criminals. Mostly they were just high as fuck and waving guns around. You detain them, sit them in a corner while you do your business, and release them before you leave.

Which is why it really bothers me that cops open fire at the first suspicion of a gun, while Soldiers deescalate situations where people are waving automatic weapons while obviously high on drugs. Granted, Soldiers do sometimes shoot those people, but like 95% of the time you can disarm them safely.

Soldiers have more training and dicipline.

And can get court martialled.

[Kumorii]

Or this photo-op by Democratic Party leadership to show that they're supporting the protesters:



Look at how defiantly they are posing! The riot police better watch out!

The apple watch with rainbow armband really is the chef's kiss.

Pelosi looks scared, like she is not sure about it.

[Paranoid Android]

Pelosi looks scared, like she is not sure about it.

Schumer looks gangster tho

[Deadite]

COPS has been cancelled.

I guess producing copaganda isn't a winning business model anymore.

Don't watch Cops so meh but i hope they stop there. I do like my US procedural cop shows. The Rookie, Chicago PD , Blue Bloods ect ect. I hope fake cops aren't next on the chopping block.

[Thekri]

Soldiers have more training and dicipline.

And can get court martialled.

True, although Trump wants to change that too. He directly intervened to stop the military from holding their own accountable for brutal behavior. The same tendencies occur in the military as occur in the police, but the military is considerably better at training and accountability. When things do go wrong, they often go VERY wrong (Such as Abu Gharib). Military senior officer ranks are shielded from accountability every bit as much as police, and it is only the lower ranks that are thrown under the buss for such things.

This is actually what I hold the most against both Trump and Mattis in regard to the Military. Not only do they perpetuate the protection of senior officers from accountability, they want to spread the same sort of thuggish behavior that has infected so many Law Enforcement agencies. That shit already exists, they were fanning the flames of it. So yes, our Military does act more responsibly then many Police Departments right now, but that can change, and the current administration seems insisted on destroying that distinction.

[Mayhem]

snip

Might I direct your attention to post #6864?

[Edge-]

My response was to your ludicrous "Why even have police, then, if it is ultimately a function of who can best justify their reasons for homicide?"

Listen, you want to get rid of the police? Fine. I am sure once the US degrades into a Mad Max level of lawlessness you will be one begging for their return.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/com...eed_your_help/
https://mynorthwest.com/1932903/rant...amed-protests/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimam...pite-city-ban/
https://www.geekwire.com/2020/seattl...vacy-concerns/
https://www.knkx.org/post/seattle-po...gas-protesters

Because honestly, the protesters are probably safer without the cops than they are with them. They handled the shooter on their own, before cops did. They're more liable to get tear gassed, flashbanged, and assaulted, even while in stationary medical tents the police are aware of while treating victims.

The notion that the absence of police instantly will send a community into "Mad Max levels of lawlessness" is taking a particularly dim view of your average American. Most people aren't bloodthirsty criminals who are only kept in check by the "thin blue line" of law enforcement.

[Lex Icon]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/com...eed_your_help/
https://mynorthwest.com/1932903/rant...amed-protests/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimam...pite-city-ban/
https://www.geekwire.com/2020/seattl...vacy-concerns/
https://www.knkx.org/post/seattle-po...gas-protesters

Because honestly, the protesters are probably safer without the cops than they are with them. They handled the shooter on their own, before cops did. They're more liable to get tear gassed, flashbanged, and assaulted, even while in stationary medical tents the police are aware of while treating victims.

The notion that the absence of police instantly will send a community into "Mad Max levels of lawlessness" is taking a particularly dim view of your average American. Most people aren't bloodthirsty criminals who are only kept in check by the "thin blue line" of law enforcement.

this reminds me of a documentary i saw recently about a music festival that has people from all over the world and no hired security or anything like that. because they trust eachother and are there just to hang out and enjoy music.

[Kellhound]

You expect police departments to cover up murders? Seriously? you expect no one in an entire department holding them accountable?

I am a realist, so I expect them to act like any tight knit group protecting their own when it is in their interest to do so. Hence why the police should not be in charge of investigating the police, massive conflict of interest.

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Which is an entirely valid question since if, as you claim, police cannot be trusted any more than regular people then why on earth should they be trusted with a position of authority?



Sweetie, there's no evidence that more police equals less crime. Last time NYPD went on strike the crime rate in New York actually dropped.

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Unlikely since bail reform (and thus the impetus for bounty hunting) is one of the things being demanded.

Bail as practiced in the US is hella stupid regardless.

Hmmmm, probably because humans are all we have to control other humans.

There is, however plenty of evidence that no police does equal more crime, especially the longer they are missing.

And seriously, what is it with you and insisting on applying intentionally demeaning nouns when responding? Are you incapable of civil discourse?

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Yes, so he asked him if he expects the behavior? Because, the difference between accepting what happened now and accepting what happens in the future, is your expectations.

Expectation and acceptance are independent of each other. Expecting a behavior to continue sans sufficient change to correct it is not accepting it, it is just understanding reality.

[Elegiac]

Hmmmm, probably because humans are all we have to control other humans.

I'm sorry, humans are naturally authoritarian yet at the same token they are naturally averse to big government as you've claimed countless times previously in your libertarian rants? Sounds like BLM is really forcing you to confront the contradictions in your political beliefs.

But no, humans are not the violent animals you claim they are. That viewpoint is generally held up for justification for abuse.

There is, however plenty of evidence that no police does equal more crime, especially the longer they are missing.

Yet strangely, there's only one side of this argument that seems to be posting studies substantiating their position and it ain't yours, queen.

And seriously, what is it with you and insisting on applying intentionally demeaning nouns when responding? Are you incapable of civil discourse?

Kaepernick tried civil discourse. You brought this on yourselves.

[Kellhound]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Seattle/com...eed_your_help/
https://mynorthwest.com/1932903/rant...amed-protests/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimam...pite-city-ban/
https://www.geekwire.com/2020/seattl...vacy-concerns/
https://www.knkx.org/post/seattle-po...gas-protesters

Because honestly, the protesters are probably safer without the cops than they are with them. They handled the shooter on their own, before cops did. They're more liable to get tear gassed, flashbanged, and assaulted, even while in stationary medical tents the police are aware of while treating victims.

The notion that the absence of police instantly will send a community into "Mad Max levels of lawlessness" is taking a particularly dim view of your average American. Most people aren't bloodthirsty criminals who are only kept in check by the "thin blue line" of law enforcement.

I never said it would be instant, but I do have a dim view of the average human, no matter their country. However, it does not take a significant number of criminals to wreak havoc. Most people may be sheep (on sooooo many levels...), but it only takes one wolf to decimate an entire flock over time.

[Elegiac]

I never said it would be instant, but I do have a dim view of the average human, no matter their country. However, it does not take a significant number of criminals to wreak havoc. Most people may be sheep (on sooooo many levels...), but it only takes one wolf to decimate an entire flock over time.

The lack of self-awareness, lol.



"Warrior training" on display, folks.

[Kellhound]

I'm sorry, humans are naturally authoritarian yet at the same token they are naturally averse to big government as you've claimed countless times previously in your libertarian rants? Sounds like BLM is really forcing you to confront the contradictions in your political beliefs.

But no, humans are not the violent animals you claim they are. That viewpoint is generally held up for justification for abuse.



Yet strangely, there's only one side of this argument that seems to be posting studies substantiating their position and it ain't yours, queen.



Kaepernick tried civil discourse. You brought this on yourselves.

A simple study of history shows that humans almost universally form into authoritarian groups, and their is a difference between having a preference for more powerful local authority over country level in a country the size and diversity of the US and thinking people are naturally adverse to big government.

Human history is dominated with murder, abuse, and warfare. I mean, hell there have been Buddhist warrior monks.....

Ok, name an area that has lost all police and law enforcement that has not degraded into a lawless hellhole.

So basically, you know not how to discuss things without insult, and wonder why you do not influence people to change their mind...

[Redwyrm]

I am sure this was probably posted and talked about ten pages back, but just in case

Shorewood woman filmed spitting on protester arrested again after altercation in front of home; police say she kneed officer in groin



And this woman is a lawyer. Now currently under investigation.

[Kellhound]

The lack of self-awareness, lol.


"Warrior training" on display, folks.

Funny thing about metaphors, they can be used to explain a lot of different ideas. In this case, you used a similar analogy in a different context to avoid what I actually said. Besides, a dog acting like a wolf is for all practical purposes a wolf.

[Masark]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/tulsa-...an-we-ought-to

Police officer who claims that the police don't shoot enough black people also claims that systemic racism and abuse of power doesn't exist.

That he can internalize and believe such a nonsense contradiction is like, the fucking problem.

Tulsa : Marching in place for 99 years and counting.

[Elegiac]

A simple study of history shows that humans almost universally form into authoritarian groups, and their is a difference between having a preference for more powerful local authority over country level in a country the size and diversity of the US and thinking people are naturally adverse to big government.

In short; you believe humans have an inclination towards local warlordism and seem to be advocating that is a preferable state of affairs given all of your policy arguments.

Human history is dominated with murder, abuse, and warfare. I mean, hell there have been Buddhist warrior monks.....

Yeah yeah, warrior culture and all that. It's as much a social construct as gender and, fortunately, would be covered under Medicare for All.

Ok, name an area that has lost all police and law enforcement that has not degraded into a lawless hellhole.

This is a strawman. No one is saying "no law enforcement".

So basically, you know not how to discuss things without insult, and wonder why you do not influence people to change their mind...

Nah. We've just decided to cut the bullshit and call out a rigged game for what it is.

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Funny thing about metaphors, they can be used to explain a lot of different ideas. In this case, you used a similar analogy in a different context to avoid what I actually said. Besides, a dog acting like a wolf is for all practical purposes a wolf.

Again, this is not a reflection of reality; this is a reflection of your beliefs which as demonstrated can and are inculcated and maintained by the training and culture of American law enforcement and the armed forces.

In short; they're being called out on their toxicity. It's a menace to national security and national economic health because it just leads to senseless forever wars of sending poor Black men and women to die fighting even poorer foreign people, and a culture of violence and intimidation by what are supposed to be approachable public servants to protect the peace and fix disputes which just ends up creating more disorder, more poverty, and more crime.

And let's not even get started on the fact that for all intents and purposes America has yet to find a way to sustain itself economically without exploiting an enslaved population for free labor.

You are either okay with that and by extension complicit in it, or see it as the social cancer it is.