Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Trassk]

You mean exactly like you're doing here with COVID victims?

It's whataboutism, plain and simple.

I'm not a politician, and people do continue to die to covid.

[Crissi]

Pr9obably because Floyd represented mroe than just himself. it was the culmination of every black victim of police brutality. Not that hard to think about it in a critical manner

[Elegiac]

I'm not a politician, and people do continue to die to covid.

"I'm not a politician, therefore..." what, exactly? That it's okay for you to use COVID victims as a political cudgel? Nice excuse.

Yes, they do. And the people who are the most vulnerable to COVID in the US are communities of color due to systemic racism which is one of the things these protests are about. So again...what's your point, here? What could be changed if George Floyd didn't have a public funeral? Would people be less racist? Rofl.

[Trassk]

Pr9obably because Floyd represented mroe than just himself. it was the culmination of every black victim of police brutality. Not that hard to think about it in a critical manner

Except people whos families died to this disease. It is a political stunt, otherwise their wouldn't have been the crowds allowed to it like their was. Surely to realize that?

"I'm not a politician, therefore..." what, exactly? That it's okay for you to use COVID victims as a political cudgel? Nice excuse.

Yes, they do. And the people who are the most vulnerable to COVID in the US are communities of color due to systemic racism which is one of the things these protests are about.

Spreading a political message is more important then protecting one another from spreading a deadly disease, thats your logic, which shows how tunnel visioned you are, especially when its been revealed black communities are more likely to contract it. Thats flat out disregard for peoples safety and well being, not that anyone supporting these riots cared about peoples safety and well being.

[Crissi]

Except people whos families died to this disease. It is a political stunt, otherwise their wouldn't have been the crowds allowed to it like their was. Surely to realize that?



Spreading a political message is more important then protecting one another from spreading a deadly disease, thats your logic, which shows how tunnel visioned you are, especially when its been revealed black communities are more likely to contract it. Thats flat out disregard for peoples safety and well being, not that anyone supporting these riots cared about peoples safety and well being.

Given police brutality feels more real than covid to a lot of people, especially to the minority community, its not a wonder this is deemed more important.

Like, my bf has had issues with cops but hasn't had covid, so Floyd hit him harder than this pandemic.

[Endus]

Pr9obably because Floyd represented mroe than just himself. it was the culmination of every black victim of police brutality. Not that hard to think about it in a critical manner

in pretty much the exact same way that Rosa Parks wasn't the first black woman to refuse to sit at the back of the bus, but her name still resonates through American history, too. Or the death of Emmett Till. These were not-unusual incidents that occurred at the right moment to trigger massive outrage, and thus, societal change.

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Spreading a political message is more important then protecting one another from spreading a deadly disease, thats your logic, which shows how tunnel visioned you are, especially when its been revealed black communities are more likely to contract it. Thats flat out disregard for peoples safety and well being, not that anyone supporting these riots cared about peoples safety and well being.

Most protestors I've seen are wearing masks, which does a lot.

And this coronavirus has been a problem since roughly January sometime. State-endorsed brutalization of black Americans has been a problem for going on 400 years or so, give or take.

All you're trying to do here is trying to silence people. The existence of one issue (COVID-19) does not make all others vanish by comparison. Hell, if you really gave a shit, you'd be pushing for massive overhaul of police departments and protections to address these injustices, because if you pushed that kind of response through, the protests would end. That's how you quiet protests; you respond to their issues.

[Stormspark]

Pr9obably because Floyd represented mroe than just himself. it was the culmination of every black victim of police brutality. Not that hard to think about it in a critical manner

There was something else too. In a few of the previous cases, the person did have a criminal record, and one had just got done with an armed robbery. But Floyd did NOTHING. He was completely unarmed, he didn't resist in any way, and the obvious lynching was caught on camera.

[Egomaniac]

https://twitter.com/samanthamarika1/...07379721908227

As she said, people haven't been able to arrange funerals for their own family members who died to covid, and yet george flyod's funeral was this grand open service with politicans there and broadcast to the world.
They used his death and arranged his funeral for a political stunt, they couldn't give two shits about george flyod.

And you couldn't give two shits about the people's families having trouble arranging funerals.

Same kind of logic when you hear about resources going to help refugees, or drug addicts...people stand on their soapboxes about how "we have homeless here", or "people without drug addictions need help"... but anytime someone says "Well, let's help the homeless" it's suddenly all about the evils of socialism.

[Elegiac]

There was something else too. In a few of the previous cases, the person did have a criminal record, and one had just got done with an armed robbery. But Floyd did NOTHING. He was completely unarmed, he didn't resist in any way, and the obvious lynching was caught on camera.

Not trying to turn Floyd into a martyr or anything, but a lot about his life is emblematic of the broken state of affairs in America;

- He was a tipped employee (cash tips being one of the most prominent means for counterfeiters and money launderers to put shit into circulation in a hard to track way) working for low wages with few benefits.
- He'd been laid off recently due to the economic dislocation due to COVID and the US' bungled response to it.
- He himself caught COVID as a result of the US' bungled pandemic response.
- He became the victim of a police lynching over what was basically a financial dispute over petty cash.

So it's natural that his story resonates, as well.

[Trassk]

Given police brutality feels more real than covid to a lot of people, especially to the minority community, its not a wonder this is deemed more important.

Like, my bf has had issues with cops but hasn't had covid, so Floyd hit him harder than this pandemic.

Covid doesn't care about race, gender, age, wealth, your political agenda. It's killed millions around the world and it's going to kill more.

That same logic btw is used by people as an excuse to go to the beach 'well I don't have covid but i am not today!"

@Endus I don't silence people, I believe in freedom of speech, which is more then what socialists believe in.

That said I have the sense to know ignoring a pandemic that could be made worse by mass gatherings is more crucial in protecting people. Police brutality is long complex issue that will take time to fix, a pandemic is happening right now and ignoring it is just foolish.

Why do you only seem to care about the issues black communities face in one area while ignoring everything else?

[Crissi]

Covid doesn't care about race, gender, age, wealth, your political agenda. It's killed millions around the world and it's going to kill more.

That same logic btw is used by people as an excuse to go to the beach 'well I don't have covid but i am not today!"

@Endus I don't silence people, I believe in freedom of speech, which is more then what socialists believe in.

That said I have the sense to know ignoring a pandemic that could be made worse by mass gatherings is more crucial in protecting people. Police brutality is long complex issue that will take time to fix, a pandemic is happening right now and ignoring it is just foolish.

Why do you only seem to care about the issues black communities face in one area while ignoring everything else?

well covid typically kills off more of the eloderly than young, while cops dont give a shit about anything. In addition, police brutality has been a thing for years, even against whites, and is definately more immediate given cops are visable.

If you're comparing fighting to not get harmed / kileld by cops to wanting to go to the beach, I really dont know what to say to you thats not super rude.

and "just wait your turn" has been told to minorities forever. It's the most bullshit argument ever

[Egomaniac]

Covid doesn't care about race, gender, age, wealth, your political agenda. It's killed millions around the world and it's going to kill more.

That same logic btw is used by people as an excuse to go to the beach 'well I don't have covid but i am not today!"

@Endus I don't silence people, I believe in freedom of speech, which is more then what socialists believe in.

That said I have the sense to know ignoring a pandemic that could be made worse by mass gatherings is more crucial in protecting people. Police brutality is long complex issue that will take time to fix, a pandemic is happening right now and ignoring it is just foolish.

Why do you only seem to care about the issues black communities face in one area while ignoring everything else?

Really all there is to say about it.

[Kasierith]

Covid disproportionately affects people of a certain economic class due to the nature of the job (can't phone in for retail or labor or construction or security), people with preexisting medical conditions, people who use public transportation, and people without ready and immediate access to health care.

Wonder if there's a certain group of people who on average experiences that spectrum of problems more than others

[Crissi]

The momentum for solutions is now. If people just waited a year (or more), its likely that is all lost and nothing will get done and people will continue to be abused / killed by cops with little recourse.

To that end, it's worth potentially getting covid for.

[Fargus]

well covid typically kills off more of the eloderly than young, while cops dont give a shit about anything. In addition, police brutality has been a thing for years, even against whites, and is definately more immediate given cops are visable.

If you're comparing fighting to not get harmed / kileld by cops to wanting to go to the beach, I really dont know what to say to you thats not super rude.

and "just wait your turn" has been told to minorities forever. It's the most bullshit argument ever

And where do you think these protesters will go afterwards? To visit friends/family/be around older people. We're in the middle of a one in a hundred year pandemic, with over 100,000 dying in the US already.

Sheer idiocy.

To that end, it's worth potentially getting covid for.

If it came down to my mother getting the virus because there's a sudden new wave vs no mass gathering I'll take the latter every single time.

[Machismo]

Covid doesn't care about race, gender, age, wealth, your political agenda. It's killed millions around the world and it's going to kill more.

That same logic btw is used by people as an excuse to go to the beach 'well I don't have covid but i am not today!"

@Endus I don't silence people, I believe in freedom of speech, which is more then what socialists believe in.

That said I have the sense to know ignoring a pandemic that could be made worse by mass gatherings is more crucial in protecting people. Police brutality is long complex issue that will take time to fix, a pandemic is happening right now and ignoring it is just foolish.

Why do you only seem to care about the issues black communities face in one area while ignoring everything else?

Except, that's not true at all. Your desire to compel social media companies to platform people shows you don't believe in freedom of speech, specifically theirs.

This has been covered many, many times in the past. The only real question, is are you lying to us, or are you lying to yourself?

[Crissi]

And where do you think these protesters will go afterwards? To visit friends/family/be around older people.

Sheer idiocy.


If it came down to my mother getting the virus because there's a sudden new wave vs no mass gathering I'll take the latter every single time.

Given that the vast majority are wearing masks, Id imagine they'd be responsible enough to self quarantine. I know that's what Id do.

and that's great. Now remember, the actual choice is your mother possibly getting covid from the gatherings vs your mother getting abused and possibly shot from the cops.

Momentum is huge in getting change done, and since it'll be a year before a vaccine, its likely the momentum will be lost. The reason people are more and more for police reform is because these protests, that are mostly peaceful, are getting slammed and abused by the cops. So no mass gatherings, no video evidense of the widespread nature of cop corruption and bad behavior, thus less likely a change will happen.

[Ripster42]

oh yeah, Im very much against cops at the moment. Just saying, dont physically go in to save drowning people if you dont have prep or water rescue training unless you're prepared to drown yourself

Is it weird that they it's almost a choke hold they have you put the people in? A one handed version of this is almost exactly what I was taught.

[Fargus]

Given that the vast majority are wearing masks, Id imagine they'd be responsible enough to self quarantine. I know that's what Id do.

and that's great. Now remember, the actual choice is your mother possibly getting covid from the gatherings vs your mother getting abused and possibly shot from the cops.

Momentum is huge in getting change done, and since it'll be a year before a vaccine, its likely the momentum will be lost. The reason people are more and more for police reform is because these protests, that are mostly peaceful, are getting slammed and abused by the cops. So no mass gatherings, no video evidense of the widespread nature of cop corruption and bad behavior, thus less likely a change will happen.

They are, are they? Did you actually do a headcount?

And what kind of masks are they?

Proper medical ones or something like cloth fabric? Or a scarf? Because the latter isn't really going to protect you. Then there's the issue of whether the masks are actually worn properly (ie. they're not too loose). There is also the issue of these masks being in short supply in the medical industry because they're just burning through a lot of them - so how can your average joe get one easily? I'm talking about the P35 ones, not the standard dust masks you get from your local hardware store.

That's not a choice. My mother has never been abused or shot by the cops, and in all likelihood never will because I live in a country where the police aren't as corrupt, are actually properly trained and need to be psychologically competent. It is far more likely my mother will get the virus from someone because of a 2nd wave caused by these protests.

Want change? Go out on voting day and vote out the idiot politicians who are implementing poor policy or are lacking the action and the will to change legislature. If everyone does this, if everyone wants solidarity... that's the time to do it.

I don't disagree with the protests in principle but we're in the middle of a pandemic for crying out loud - look at what's happened in NYC and northern Italy. Is it worth having hospitals overwhelmed, more people dying and people not getting medical attention because the ER is full of virus patients? Just remember that if a loved one gets this virus and gets very ill because tens of thousands of people get exposed to a virus we have no vaccine for and is particularly dangerous for the older demograpgic.

[Endus]

@Endus I don't silence people, I believe in freedom of speech, which is more then what socialists believe in.

You're telling people to be silent. So the first statement is a lie.

As for the second, that's just McCarthyist anti-socialist propaganda horseshit. It has no basis in reality whatsoever.

That said I have the sense to know ignoring a pandemic that could be made worse by mass gatherings is more crucial in protecting people. Police brutality is long complex issue that will take time to fix, a pandemic is happening right now and ignoring it is just foolish.

Police brutality could be addressed much more quickly than the disease. Police brutality is entirely within our ability to legislate, whereas a disease's vector cannot be directly managed in the same way.

Literally, we could make sweeping changes to police protections tomorrow, if we wanted to. Nothing prevents that. It's just not going to happen, because there's no desire to make that change. That's the problem.

Why do you only seem to care about the issues black communities face in one area while ignoring everything else?

I'm perfectly capable of caring about a whole range of issues simultaneously. As are most people. You don't have to pick and choose, and it's a ridiculous thing to suggest.