Pvp power back? God yes

[Schattenlied]

Loved Legion. Was the only expansion in wich PvP was fun.

And yet it's the expansion where PvP participation took an absolutely massive nosedive... Which says much of the community felt the opposite.

[Big Thanks]

I mean your actively supporting adding a time gate to pvp...

Its "character progression" so is fine is fun

The only downside is that you WILL see many undergeared players in random BGs...like...a lot.
Is all good though.

Most of the things is asked in this thread became true.

1) Vendors
2) PvP stat

[Swnem]

And yet it's the expansion where PvP participation took an absolutely massive nosedive... Which says much of the community felt the opposite.

I don't care what the community says. The community wanted to get gear sets. They like the grind and feeling more powerful cause they grinded. I like the fun and i like skill mattering more than gear. Thus you have shitty, unbalanced PvP again. Well... enjoy!

[Syegfryed]

Legion was good for pvp if you were a tank, fuck i hate the world pvp back there, so obnoxious

wish WoD pvp came back.

[Pandragon]

Why not just have gear not matter in PvP...didn't legion work like this, or was it WOD? I don't see why gear even plays a role in pvp...Im not a moba or FPS players, but in Counterstrike do people have better guns in that game? Like they do more damage in competitive games. I know in RTS there is no such things.

Yeah they tried that but couldn't ever get the templates balanced properly. Some classes sucked completely and some were stupidly op no matter what they did. So they did away with it in BFA.

[protpaul]

Its "character progression" so is fine is fun

The only downside is that you WILL see many undergeared players in random BGs...like...a lot.
Is all good though.

Most of the things is asked in this thread became true.

1) Vendors
2) PvP stat

I mean it's a pointless time grind. If people want to pvp they should each work with the same stats.

If people simply want to be op they can buy the AH potions.

Pvp makes pve balance seem like a joke. It's to the point it is extremely rare to see 2/3 of the classes at high mmr much less different specs.

[Big Thanks]

I mean it's a pointless time grind. If people want to pvp they should each work with the same stats.

If people simply want to be op they can buy the AH potions.

Pvp makes pve balance seem like a joke. It's to the point it is extremely rare to see 2/3 of the classes at high mmr much less different specs.

PvP balance is a joke...i agree 1000000%

This is why i prefer and only do random BG's as my main content.
Because is a group activity...you can be useful even if you play a "shit" class Blizzard ignores.

[melzas]

I want it to be like in Wotlk, when you got to a certain rank by the mere use of skill and then in that rank you could buy new gear which made it harder for you to fall down.

That's by far the worst PvP model. Good players getting better gear so that worse player are behind both gear and skill.

[Darknessvamp]

And yet it's the expansion where PvP participation took an absolutely massive nosedive... Which says much of the community felt the opposite.

I always felt the issue with Legion's PvP system was the PVP/Honour level reward system being fucked. Actively discouraged people from PvPing on multiple characters, earning honour took far too long, the amount of caps and restarts to actually get a decent reward was way too bloated and when PvP specific talents used to reset on Honour restarts completely killed people's interest. Also no vendor apart from PvP appearances didn't help.

[apelsinjuice]

probably just some placeholder or specific power event

[Trend]

Why not just have gear not matter in PvP...didn't legion work like this, or was it WOD? I don't see why gear even plays a role in pvp...Im not a moba or FPS players, but in Counterstrike do people have better guns in that game? Like they do more damage in competitive games. I know in RTS there is no such things.

Because it's an MMO and it's not a FPS or RTS or some other genre in which character progression isn't a thing. Ultimately they chip away at this core concept by having different gear for different activities, but some character progression is something a lot of players like as an aspect of the game.

[oplawlz]

It's strange since Holinka said in an interview that pvp-specific stats aren't coming back. Maybe they changed their mind, or it might just be an artifact.

So far they've been pretty good about actually listening to feedback instead of digging their heels in this expac. We'll see.

[Hctaz]

Couple of trains of thought with this one:

So... it seems like they have this weird dichotomy in how to handle this game.

WoD moved the game in a direction where the gear that you got was no longer spec specific, and basically opened up the door to having one set of gear used for every spec your class could swap to. Now obviously some secondary stats will still be better for different specs and so your gear would not be optimized, but it was still a HUGE difference from the days of old. If you played during Wrath or Cata you'd know what I mean. You had to have a completely different set of gear for pretty much every slot for ever spec (partly also because of Hit and Expertise rating giving different values across different specs and different pieces).

Fast forward to Legion where gear in PvP literally actually didn't matter and everybody was given a stat sheet based on item level.

Fast forward to today: It sounds like the team now (for some reason) wants there to be RPG elements and elements of choice that matter again in this game. I'm in the camp that wholeheartedly agrees with this choice, BUT ONLY IF THE ENTIRE GAME OPERATES THIS WAY.

I'm hoping they actually are re-implementing PvP specific gear into the game as it vibes with the idea of having more permanent choices in the game again. My issue that I had with the Covenants was that they were oddly restrictive in this day and age of WoW where you can pop into any piece of content with pretty much any set of gear and still be able to do the thing. The gear I use for raiding can be the same gear I use for PvP and can be the same gear I use in M+ with a simple spec or talent swap. But then to throw a restrictive Covenant system on top of this super flexible playstyle didn't make any sense to me.

I personally think that this is a good change if they are sticking to their guns about having Covenants be more restrictive to choose between and if they also continue to make the various abilities obviously better for specific pieces of content.

If I have to invest a lot of time into getting PvP specific gear in order to be relevant inside of PvP content, it doesn't feel so bad also having to dedicate that character to a specific PvP Covenant.

TL;DR - PvP gear that is best for PvP and raiding gear that is best for raiding is a good thing especially because it's hard to change Covenants AFAIK

[oplawlz]

PvP balance is a joke...i agree 1000000%

This is why i prefer and only do random BG's as my main content.
Because is a group activity...you can be useful even if you play a "shit" class Blizzard ignores.

A ton of people feel this way, and Blizzard actively disincentivising random BGs has driven many people away from Pvp altogether. Let us scrubs have our fun and earn some *currency* for gear upgrades. Make it have pvp power so the pve only nerds don't want it.

If I want to do bgs to get my rogue a mediocre set of daggers who is it hurting? I had a blast doing this in wotlk.

[Big Thanks]

A ton of people feel this way, and Blizzard actively disincentivising random BGs has driven many people away from Pvp altogether. Let us scrubs have our fun and earn some *currency* for gear upgrades. Make it have pvp power so the pve only nerds don't want it.

If I want to do bgs to get my rogue a mediocre set of daggers who is it hurting? I had a blast doing this in wotlk.

A character progression system in Random BGs...is a dream for me.
Is my main content.
And you are telling me i will feel rewarded with a progression system in the main content i do?

Cool

[Belloc]

Correct me if I'm wrong but, even in expansions with PvP-specific stats, high-end PvPers still used raid trinkets and legendaries... did they not? I don't see that ever changing.

Separating stats/gear for PvE and PvP is the worst. We don’t and shall not need different stats/gear for PvE and PvP.

We don’t even need different currencies (e.g. honor/conquest points for pvp, justice/valor points for pve in the old days.)

We shall have the same currency and vendor for both pvp and pve.

The currency’s weekly gain will be capped at 1000/week and players can buy different item level gear from the vendor (higher item level gear cost much more than low item level gear, just like titan residuum vendor).

What we need is for players to get those currency at the same difficulty and efficiency from both pvp and pve. (e.g. players get 10 from a random dungeon or BG, and get 100 from a mythic+ or an arena match)

It makes players can earn the same currency in either pve, pvp or a mix of pvp/pve if they want to, in relatively SAME difficulty and efficiency.

We shall not have different sets for PvE/PvP. Carrying multiple sets like azerite armor / corruption is the worst gear design in wow history.

Shall =/= should. Shall assumes that it is going to happen... but I honestly don't see half of that stuff happening anytime soon.

That said, I agree that we don't need different stats. High-end PvPers are capable of playing well with or without gear from raids and mythics.

[protpaul]

Because it's an MMO and it's not a FPS or RTS or some other genre in which character progression isn't a thing. Ultimately they chip away at this core concept by having different gear for different activities, but some character progression is something a lot of players like as an aspect of the game.

No they really don't.

If they did people would be against all the welfare gear. They want to beat on new players who can't fight back. If they locked gear behind 1800 ratings those same players who loved this change would shriek bloody murder.

- - - Updated - - -

A character progression system in Random BGs...is a dream for me.
Is my main content.
And you are telling me i will feel rewarded with a progression system in the main content i do?

Cool

Your not progessing if your not doing rated.

[Big Thanks]

Your not progessing if your not doing rated.

How so?

I will be progressing my gear and becoming stronger in random BGs...
There will be vendors and a PvP stat it seems...

Too early to tell for sure, i know.

[korijenkins]

Why not just have gear not matter in PvP...didn't legion work like this, or was it WOD? I don't see why gear even plays a role in pvp...Im not a moba or FPS players, but in Counterstrike do people have better guns in that game? Like they do more damage in competitive games. I know in RTS there is no such things.

Because this is a gear-based game and if gear meant nothing there would be no incentive to get it for pvpers. Having gear tied to time invested, or tied to skill, is not problematic. A good player will always beat a bad player. Making gear a non-factor just means it takes him longer to do it.

[Big Thanks]

A good player will always beat a bad player. Making gear a non-factor just means it takes him longer to do it.

This is ofcourse not true I find

There is matchups and this game is not balanced around 1v1's

Unless you are talking about rated arena! On that i can agree!