Pvp power back? God yes

[ro9ue]

Legion was the closest to ideal set up in PVP imo. Everyone was scaled to each others' power level so it wasn't a gear thing - just skill and comp. I would only change one minor thing: All stats are normalized for each spec and balanced appropriately, EXCEPT for special extra trinket slots that are active in PVP. For those you can visit a PVP vendor. These aren't normal trinkets, they just allow you to customize your secondary stats a bit.

So basically every trinket has a total of (example numerical value) 100 secondary stat value, and a socket for a tertiary stat option. On the vendor there are a few dozen options of potential combinations like 50 Haste 50 Mastery, 100 Mastery, 25 Haste 25 Mastery 25 Crit 25 Vers, 100 Vers... etc.

This way while everyone is scaled identically for the most fair competitive play, but there's still an elemental of customizing your stat set up with these special trinkets. Everyone as soon as they enter PVP would be able to buy them. They aren't something you grind for or are awarded... it's just so while everyone is balanced and scaled... there's still the RPG element of allowing you room to customize your stats a bit.

Just to pre-empt: 100 used in this example is not a real number, but there will still be someone who replies LOL WhAtS 100 oF A StaT GONNA Do??? Blizzard can make that number 100,000, 10,000, 1,000, 5 or 47,529.

Doesn't even need to be a bunch of trinket slots... just one PVP thing where you can socket stat gems or something.

[Jujudrood]

I'm all for PVP power-like systems, where gear is differentiated.
Gear progression is fundamental to WoW.
We aren't playing COD or any silly quick-dose FPS, this is an MMORPG.
Get better gear, have better stats.

What people are more mad about is the imbalance between different characters, because if *everyone* doesn't have the same amount of gap closers/creators, stuns/cc's/whole nine, then it's a "broken mess", and in this regard, gear doesn't matter.
But, just because classes vary in their ability to perform various tasks, don't take away progression from PVP because that just makes it even more pointless than it is now.

Fix the balance (yeah, right!), give progression in PVP not reliant on M+ or raids, then maybe PVP would be a bit more interesting.

[docterfreeze]

Please god let it be true. Two expansions in a row of obsolete PvP gear/gearing, I cannot take another one.

[Big Thanks]

Legion was the closest to ideal set up in PVP imo. Everyone was scaled to each others' power level so it wasn't a gear thing - just skill and comp. I would only change one minor thing: All stats are normalized for each spec and balanced appropriately, EXCEPT for special extra trinket slots that are active in PVP. For those you can visit a PVP vendor. These aren't normal trinkets, they just allow you to customize your secondary stats a bit.

So basically every trinket has a total of (example numerical value) 100 secondary stat value, and a socket for a tertiary stat option. On the vendor there are a few dozen options of potential combinations like 50 Haste 50 Mastery, 100 Mastery, 25 Haste 25 Mastery 25 Crit 25 Vers, 100 Vers... etc.

This way while everyone is scaled identically for the most fair competitive play, but there's still an elemental of customizing your stat set up with these special trinkets. Everyone as soon as they enter PVP would be able to buy them. They aren't something you grind for or are awarded... it's just so while everyone is balanced and scaled... there's still the RPG element of allowing you room to customize your stats a bit.

Just to pre-empt: 100 used in this example is not a real number, but there will still be someone who replies LOL WhAtS 100 oF A StaT GONNA Do??? Blizzard can make that number 100,000, 10,000, 1,000, 5 or 47,529.

Doesn't even need to be a bunch of trinket slots... just one PVP thing where you can socket stat gems or something.

2 years of an entire expansion without ANY "player created customization" and "all up to Blizzard"...
Sounds good...

No...it sounds awful

Trinkets are not enough. IMO, ofcourse.

[ro9ue]

2 years of an entire expansion without ANY "player created customization" and "all up to Blizzard"...
Sounds good...

No...it sounds awful

Trinkets are not enough. IMO, ofcourse.

To me the options are either a) PVP sucks because gear - like corruption, ilevel etc makes the competitive side unfair or b) normalize the stats so its more about skill. B is the answer.

The only complaint I heard during Legion was that people lost the sense of an RPG where you could change your character, so instead of just swinging the pendulum all the way back to A which is happening now and it might be the worst PVP era of all time... keep the system in Legion but add an additional but reasonable level of customization for players.

[Big Thanks]

To me the options are either a) PVP sucks because gear - like corruption, ilevel etc makes the competitive side unfair or b) normalize the stats so its more about skill. B is the answer.

The only complaint I heard during Legion was that people lost the sense of an RPG where you could change your character, so instead of just swinging the pendulum all the way back to A which is happening now and it might be the worst PVP era of all time... keep the system in Legion but add an additional but reasonable level of customization for players.

I value "originality", "freedom", "sandbox" above balance.
But this is just me.
Very rarely you see people with my opinion here on MMO-C...so might be a huge minority. Not sure.

[gblSweet]

I value "originality", "freedom", "sandbox" above balance.
But this is just me.
Very rarely you see people with my opinion here on MMO-C...so might be a huge minority. Not sure.

Although I'm in the "balance team" on this, I understand deeply what you're saying. Being a MTG player myself for years and one of the best deckbuilders from my group of friends that plays as well, one of the best feelings I had playing the game was using decks I brewed myself and absolutely stomping them. They were rare moments, but hell they were fun.
I think if the direction for PvP in WoW is to be an e-sport (as they try for years), balance should be the way to go, even if player creativity to customize its own character is hindered or completely gone. Otherwise, if RPG is the greatest factor for PvP, to hell with balance.

[Big Thanks]

Although I'm in the "balance team" on this, I understand deeply what you're saying. Being a MTG player myself for years and one of the best deckbuilders from my group of friends that plays as well, one of the best feelings I had playing the game was using decks I brewed myself and absolutely stomping them. They were rare moments, but hell they were fun.
I think if the direction for PvP in WoW is to be an e-sport (as they try for years), balance should be the way to go, even if player creativity to customize its own character is hindered or completely gone. Otherwise, if RPG is the greatest factor for PvP, to hell with balance.

DUDE!
This post is incredibly relatable to me

Im playing a new card game called Legends of Runeterra...and because is so new and strange, everyone is still trying to figure out the "meta".
And ofcourse, because i value "originality" above everything...i only play with homebrew decks.
My deck reached Diamond rank :3

I cant seem to reach Masters though.
Too much of a noob and low IQ i guess (>_<)

[gblSweet]

DUDE!
This post is incredibly relatable to me

Im playing a new card game called Legends of Runeterra...and because is so new and strange, everyone is still trying to figure out the "meta".
And ofcourse, because i value "originality" above everything...i only play with homebrew decks.
My deck reached Diamond rank :3

I cant seem to reach Masters though.
Too much of a noob and low IQ i guess (>_<)

Tried a little bit as well, had some fun but dropped when reached platinum. I love ramp decks in MTG and I couldn't find any parallel in LoR that appealed to me.

[ro9ue]

I value "originality", "freedom", "sandbox" above balance.
But this is just me.
Very rarely you see people with my opinion here on MMO-C...so might be a huge minority. Not sure.

I agree... in PVE. For PVP it's completely different from my point of view. In PVE if you find some sort of crazy imbalanced build or you get geared to the teeth, you're just owning a computer AI. In PVP, there's another player on the other end of that experience, sometimes it's you. If I walk into a battleground today and get 100-0 in 2 seconds from corruption tentacles... how is that enjoyable? I just lost to a random proc. There's nothing there to learn to improve on the next time I play. I lost because RNGesus said so.

Also, doesn't even need to be RNG. If I'm a new player interested in PVP and I walk into a BG for the first time and come up against an opponent that way outgears me... it's not fun. You just become sheep to the slaughter. Most people will just quit.

When you have equal power gear wise, same toolkit and lose to your opponent, that's far more respectable. It means you were just outskilled. That means there's stuff for you to learn so you can come back and be better. There was a really good post I read from a game dev once about why they introduced the "noob tube" into the original CoD MW. It felt OP, but you only had 1 or 2 of them per game. It was so that when new players first jumped in vs veterans they could still get a few kills. Having at least a ray of hope for new players is needed to make them keep playing.

In WoW PVP when gear is such a powerful thing there is ZERO chance for a new player to come in and get kills. How many BGs have you been in with your ragtag group vs a group of geared people and you're just sitting at the graveyard getting farmed? We don't need the skill vector ON TOP of a massive gear disparity in this game.

That's why PVP is a different animal to me. That should be balanced, but still have a small window of customization there for that RPG element.

[Divinex]

I hope that they make the game like it was before in the sense that if you only want to PvP, you never have to step foot in PvE/vice versa

[kaminaris]

I hope that they make the game like it was before in the sense that if you only want to PvP, you never have to step foot in PvP/vice versa

It was never like this, ever.

[Unholyground]

Why not just have gear not matter in PvP...didn't legion work like this, or was it WOD? I don't see why gear even plays a role in pvp...Im not a moba or FPS players, but in Counterstrike do people have better guns in that game? Like they do more damage in competitive games. I know in RTS there is no such things.

Yep in a competitive game having an advantage over new players entering ruins any semblance of balance and makes them not enjoy it jut because your gear is better. I hope they do templates again.

[MrKnubbles]

Imo this system gave players more "content" as they needed to gear up for both PVP and PVE which means more play time.

It also increased the barrier to entry.

I prefer PvP to be based around skill and not gear. I should win a fight for being a better player, not a better-geared player. All PvP specific gear does is increase the strength of characters in PvP gear against players in PvE gear.

As a predominantly PvE focused player, I will sometimes venture into PvP for loot. If it then only awards PvP specific gear, I won't bother since it's not a main activity of mine. That type of system would reduce the amount of "content" for players like me.

[letssee]

Why not just have gear not matter in PvP...didn't legion work like this, or was it WOD? I don't see why gear even plays a role in pvp...Im not a moba or FPS players, but in Counterstrike do people have better guns in that game? Like they do more damage in competitive games. I know in RTS there is no such things.

cuz this an rpg not an rts or fps



allthough i do think there are some benefits

[GreenJesus]

I can't see how this is good for anyone beyond gankers annoyed by being outplayed.

It seems like it creates a needless barrier to progression in pvp. The real answer would be templates so only skill decides a fight.

The problem with templates is that you are at the mercy of whatever stats Blizzard decides to give you for your spec. You want to stack vers? Too bad. Here's some mastery.

[gd8]

gear shouldn't even be a factor in pvp templates were the way to go

[FelPlague]

Why not just have gear not matter in PvP...didn't legion work like this, or was it WOD? I don't see why gear even plays a role in pvp...Im not a moba or FPS players, but in Counterstrike do people have better guns in that game? Like they do more damage in competitive games. I know in RTS there is no such things.

legion did, and people fucking hated it.
"I WANT MY GEAR TO MEAN SOMETHING"
"wow this random shitter in leveling greens who just got max level can actually compete with me? fuck this"
"Wow gear doesent matter, i work hard and still gotta challenge lowbies"
"wtf blizz i want to be able to get tons of gear and curb stomp weak people wtf"

I loved the balancing, made it easier to get into pvp, but well, yeah, it made it so all the gear you worked up for, was pointless compared to someone in leveling greens.

[BananaHandsB]

Why not just have gear not matter in PvP...didn't legion work like this, or was it WOD? I don't see why gear even plays a role in pvp...Im not a moba or FPS players, but in Counterstrike do people have better guns in that game? Like they do more damage in competitive games. I know in RTS there is no such things.

That's exactly the point. Other competitive games have very little player power attained from anything outside of player skill. But an mmo shouldn't be like every other competitive game. In an mmo player power is gear+skill. In an MMO, not having gear matter really doesn't make sense. That's a huge part of the game. If people don't like gear as a way of enhancing player power, they're going to go play one of the multitudes of other multiplayer games in existence anyways.

[Nnyco]

Meh i hope they dont bring back pvp power or any similar stat. It just makes your entire gear useless in pvp and you need to wear this specific gear specifically made for pvp.

Might aswell add mythic+ power, raid power and world power.