The Last of Us Part II

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

He's a "hard man" as they used to say. Unfortunately he didn't really have the option since it's a failure condition in the game if you don't kill the SOB quickly enough. I've seen players wish they could just knock him out or whatever. But the fact of the matter is he did take up arms (his scalpel).

The cut scene in TLOU2 does... not... make me more sympathetic for that fool, either. That his fanaticism was so solid it extended to his own child, in fact, only makes it more clear there'd have been no reasoning with him anyway.



I mean, he's right about the real world details of how fungal infections work vs. viral infections, why vaccines are not beneficial to people who are already infected, and that there aren't any vaccines for fungal infections existing currently and that it means it's even less plausible that the first would be invented in a broken world.

I'm not out here to ignore the questionable nature of what the Fireflies even thought they could really accomplish, it's up to the authors to research these things. But the fact remains that however credible their plans were or weren't, they didn't see fit to risk Ellie refusing. I can't figure out why people think it's worse that Joel lied to her about the Fireflies for her own peace of mind than it was for them to lie to her so they could murder her without her putting up a fight.

It doesn't matter the good of humanity over your emotions. Joel like the fireflies he robbed Ellie of a choice and the world of a cure.

He is right about it but plot-holes exist in fictional universes and I wish naughty dawg would comment on it. We can never know what developers intended that is bullshit.

[Tech614]

It doesn't matter the good of humanity over your emotions. Joel like the fireflies robbed Ellie and the world of a cure.

He is right about its also a fictional universe... Plot-holes exist in them.

I mean, literally a game where if you stay infected long enough you become Brock Lesnar zombie capable of throwing acid bombs at people. While the violence and narrative on humanity might be trying to be realistic, the actual science is not. So not sure why we're caught up in the scientific discussion of if a fungal vaccine is possible or not lmao.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I mean, literally a game where if you stay infected long enough you become Brock Lesnar zombie capable of throwing acid bombs at people. While the violence and narrative on humanity might be trying to be realistic, the actual science is not. So not sure why we're caught up in the scientific discussion of if a fungal vaccine is possible or not lmao.

The zombies are based on a real world fungal parasite but at the end of the day its fiction. We can never know the right answer. They took a ton of liberties with it but its the most realistic virus. Along with 28 days later series.

[Stormdash]

It doesn't matter the good of humanity over your emotions. Joel like the fireflies he robbed Ellie of a choice and the world of a cure.

He is right about it but plot-holes exist in fictional universes and I wish naughty dawg would comment on it. We can never know what developers intended that is bullshit.

The fantasy of a cure, since I can't imagine how a reasonable person could take their chances seriously. Don't get me wrong - I don't care if they had a sure thing, I still wouldn't be onboard with involuntary human sacrifice and they gave up their chance to get a say on Ellie's consent when they anesthetized her without getting it. But the idea that they had a credible shot and not a desperate wish they were convincing themselves stood a chance is laughable.

I mean, I think we got Naughty Dog's commentary at the end of a short iron - they wanted to punish players for not embracing their moral consequentialist utilitarian dogshit and sharing their obvious hatred of Joel, so they brained him to hurt us.

I mean, literally a game where if you stay infected long enough you become Brock Lesnar zombie capable of throwing acid bombs at people. While the violence and narrative on humanity might be trying to be realistic, the actual science is not. So not sure why we're caught up in the scientific discussion of if a fungal vaccine is possible or not lmao.

Because Marlene isn't the Narrator, she's a just a person in that world with her own biases. The Fireflies' credibility and capability are open to skepticism and debate.

[Vakir]

People struggle to grasp you aren't playing your story, you're playing A STORY. This same shit happened with people whining about Joel's actions at the end of the first game. History always repeats itself. If people want to choose their own narrative, Naughty Dog games have never been the place for that so not sure why people expect it.

You're not getting it. The complaint isn't that it isn't my/"our" story. The problem is why have these gameplay devices if the point they're trying to illustrate doesn't align with them? It's tonally and thematically dissonant.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

The fantasy of a cure, since I can't imagine how a reasonable person could take their chances seriously. Don't get me wrong - I don't care if they had a sure thing, I still wouldn't be onboard with involuntary human sacrifice and they gave up their chance to get a say on Ellie's consent when they anesthetized her without getting it. But the idea that they had a credible shot and not a desperate wish they were convincing themselves stood a chance is laughable.

I mean, I think we got Naughty Dog's commentary at the end of a short iron - they wanted to punish players for not embracing their moral consequentialist utilitarian dogshit and sharing their obvious hatred of Joel, so they brained him to hurt us.



Because Marlene isn't the Narrator, she's a just a person in that world with her own biases. The Fireflies' credibility and capability are open to skepticism and debate.

I agree that is where joel is in the right but than he did the same thing by robbing her of a choice afterwards. They're both bad that is the point your not getting. I deleted most post to retype it but with less errors.

Also both games punish you for things that our out your controls. It why, I don't really like the dick riding the last of us gets.

[Saltysquidoon]

It's funny when you make a statement you can't prove.

You mean like that guy that was fired for giving kayne and lynch bad review? Or journalists being told (secretly) to tweet hashtag a certain game to win a ps3 in 2012? Or the fact games journalism literally has its roots (in the old magazines from the 90s) as being outsourced PR? Or Geoff Keighley and the dorito pope incident? Or just press events run by and funded by publishes offering early access to 'select' people? Or the time EA got cause with a leaked email explicitly stating a condition of going to a press event where 'critics' received goodie bags (including consoles) was a minimum review score? Or Publishers buying out ad space for certain websites o the employees know that publisher can pull the plug at any time.

I suppose you're technically correct in the sense that no PR man has even been caught exchanging tender for review scores. But you have to be willfully blind not to see that professional shills 'critics' know who holds their leash.

[Tech614]

The zombies are based on a real world fungal parasite but at the end of the day its fiction. We can never know the right answer. They took a ton of liberties with it but its the most realistic virus. Along with 28 days later series.

Yes, based on real world insect fungus that does not turn insects into clickers, bloaters, stalkers or anything else. If the game was just runners there might be a shred of scientific realism in it, but there isn't and the game isn't pretending that there is.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Yes, based on real world insect fungus that does not turn insects into clickers, bloaters, stalkers or anything else. If the game was just runners there might be a shred of scientific realism in it, but there isn't and the game isn't pretending that there is.

I'm just saying the virus is based on real world things but than they take liberty with it. Which throws game theories argument on of the window. Its a fictional world. I wish naughty dog would comment on it but we'll never know. There is no illness system despite the fact characters get caught in the rain with no way to dry off safely for hours. A lot of realistic elements are missing from the game.

[Tech614]

You're not getting it. The complaint isn't that it isn't my/"our" story. The problem is why have these gameplay devices if the point they're trying to illustrate doesn't align with them? It's tonally and thematically dissonant.

You seem to lack critical understanding that the game isn't just preaching that violence is wrong, the game is also acknowledging that humans are... human do do shitty things due to various emotions or personal greed.

Maybe fairy tales are more up your alley.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

You seem to lack critical understanding that the game isn't just preaching that violence is wrong, the game is also acknowledging that humans are... human do do shitty things due to various emotions or personal greed.

Maybe fairy tales are more up your alley.

I will agree giving us no choice but to kill people and not realize the error of our ways was legit criticism. I can concede to the other side on that one. You can avoid killing some people but not all.

[Ceruion894]

I didn't get the platinum trophy, but I did just beat the game. I can understand the criticism behind the game. I didn't care for it, but I wanted to beat it and give it a fair shot. Here's my spoiler-free summary;

Gameplay 5/10 - Was pretty much the same as the first, melee combat is fun for the most part. The stealth mechanics have improved, but everything else is bland.

Story 3/10 - It seems Naughty Dog tried to go with shock value instead of further character building. I loved the first game, but this one just seemed too bleak, events that happened seemed uncalled for and there was an abundance of violence (way more than the first one). People who describe the game as being torture porn are pretty spot on.

World 10/10 - I love the environment honestly. The game is SUPER atmospheric and this was my absolute favorite part of the game. Despite the issues I have with the characters and gameplay, they nailed the world.

Overall I'd give the game a 5/10. I feel it was overhyped and didn't deliver on fan's expectations. Do I think it's the worst game ever? Nah, but the connection I felt with the characters in the first are gone and if they continue to build upon the series somehow, I probably won't be interested.

If you haven't bought it yet, pick it up when it inevitably goes on sale.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I didn't get the platinum trophy, but I did just beat the game. I can understand the criticism behind the game. I didn't care for it, but I wanted to beat it and give it a fair shot. Here's my spoiler-free summary;

Gameplay 5/10 - Was pretty much the same as the first, melee combat is fun for the most part. The stealth mechanics have improved, but everything else is bland.

Story 3/10 - It seems Naughty Dog tried to go with shock value instead of further character building. I loved the first game, but this one just seemed too bleak, events that happened seemed uncalled for and there was an abundance of violence (way more than the first one). People who describe the game as being torture porn are pretty spot on.

World 10/10 - I love the environment honestly. The game is SUPER atmospheric and this was my absolute favorite part of the game. Despite the issues I have with the characters and gameplay, they nailed the world.

Overall I'd give the game a 5/10. I feel it was overhyped and didn't deliver on fan's expectations. Do I think it's the worst game ever? Nah, but the connection I felt with the characters in the first are gone and if they continue to build upon the series somehow, I probably won't be interested.

If you haven't bought it yet, pick it up when it inevitably goes on sale.

How was it not character building joe became more trusting... and Ellie turned into a younger joel but is now an ambiguous blob at the end of the game because she lost everything. She also didn't kill abby because there was nothing left to take. She and her were in the same situation.

[Tech614]

I'm just saying the virus is based on real world things but than they take liberty with it. Which throws game theories argument on of the window. Its a fictional world. I wish naughty dog would comment on it but we'll never know. There is no illness system despite the fact characters get caught in the rain with no way to dry off safely for hours. A lot of realistic elements are missing from the game.

It's just the fact it is a game at the end of the day. Same thing with ingesting loads of random pills just to learn how to aim your gun better. Only certain select aspects of the game are trying to be realistic.

This is why I don't get some people(not you) trying to hold the game to some higher standard then other video games with trash terms like "Ludonarrative dissonance". 2013 called and Bioshock Infinite wants its hot takes back. At the end of the day, game is still gonna be a game and have gameplay mechanics that don't necessarily fit other aspects of the game.

[ZazuuPriest]

It's just the fact it is a game at the end of the day. Same thing with ingesting loads of random pills just to learn how to aim your gun better. Only certain select aspects of the game are trying to be realistic.

This is why I don't get some people(not you) trying to hold the game to some higher standard then other video games with trash terms like "Ludonarrative dissonance". 2013 called and Bioshock Infinite wants its hot takes back. At the end of the day, game is still gonna be a game and have gameplay mechanics that don't necessarily fit other aspects of the game.

people who dont want to like the game no matter what will obviously find a justification for their feelings.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Like adding a dot system or debuff system isn't hard and it would make the game realistic but people wanna be selective about it.

<< Written a couple.

[Kallisto]

The fantasy of a cure, since I can't imagine how a reasonable person could take their chances seriously. Don't get me wrong - I don't care if they had a sure thing, I still wouldn't be onboard with involuntary human sacrifice and they gave up their chance to get a say on Ellie's consent when they anesthetized her without getting it. But the idea that they had a credible shot and not a desperate wish they were convincing themselves stood a chance is laughable.

I mean, I think we got Naughty Dog's commentary at the end of a short iron - they wanted to punish players for not embracing their moral consequentialist utilitarian dogshit and sharing their obvious hatred of Joel, so they brained him to hurt us.



Because Marlene isn't the Narrator, she's a just a person in that world with her own biases. The Fireflies' credibility and capability are open to skepticism and debate.

so again you're a monster who would doom humanity for 1.

[Tech614]

Anyways, not gonna give a hot take on whether I like Part 2 better then 1 or not yet only 10ish hours removed from beating it but I can say I enjoyed the game.

For criticism my biggest issue would be all the flashback scenes that needlessly bloat the game. I understand some of them where vital for telling the story but some of them where definitely not and could of been axed. But overall, yes I enjoyed the game as I have pretty much every Naughty Dog game.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

I like the plots general direction but the execution could've been better. Joel is an untrusting asshole but fell for an ambush. I wish he at least took one out with him. The situation was almost perfect but he gave abby his name. His brother did the same but he has always been talkative. He has been more caring and Ellie calling him out on his shit probably caused a character shift.

He and his brother were both caught in the cold but weren't far from home. They could've saved abby and left but decided to stay with strangers. A really big group of strangers.

I like the fact one mistake can get any character killed and that's what made it for me. I'm tired of this fucking tv shows were characters can run into a hell of bullets and be fine cause plot armor.

[Kallisto]

It's funny you're taking the word of paid shills as some sort of Indicator for how well a game is going to be. You do realize if these people criticized the game they would have been blacklisted, which is kind of a death sentence for them =)

Still waiting on cold hard evidence that would pass a means test through a court of law or to get an actual scientific consensus to show that they are being paid. Not some "It's obvious."