Vote to leave Mythic+

[Twdft]

But youre happy with IO basing a players worth solely on whether or not the dungeon got timed? And that's why M+ will always be toxic. Because the tool used to evaluate players doesn't list anything other than whether or not it was timed. So leavers get no penalties, and good players who got into the wrong groups but tough it out to not screw over the other people will get screwed left and right.

I've been asking this in m+ threads a couple of times, never got an answer: what is wrong with having a depleted run on r.io? Sure if you see a player who only ever has depleted runs showing he might be bad, a good friend sticking to his team tho. A couple of depleted keys don't matter at all.

And about leavers: working on keystone master my team would practice in +16 and stop the run before endboss, reset and go in again to time a +15. Also downgrading keys. Penalties for leavers cannot be automatic and noone has the manpower to do it manually.

IO is like a hammer, if used right a marvelous tool but you can also hurt with it. People just have to learn using r.io right instead of crying for penalties.

[Frolk]

With all the toxic keybusters who either bail right after the key is activated, or bail later, there needs to be a severe Deserter debuff (2+ hours) for leaving a Mythic+ run. The problem is that there are legitimate reasons to end a Mythic+ run.

I propose a system like the vote kick, but where someone can vote to end the run. If at least two other players vote to end the run, or if someone has already bailed on the run (and gotten the Deserter), then the rest of the players can leave without penalty.

The reason for the vote option is so nobody has to take the Deserter debuff if the whole group decides to call it.

I know a better fix, stop pugging.

[Izzyfurious]

Pugging M+ is a cancerous experience too much from my experiences. I cba doing it anymore because you literally cannot get 1 out of 4 people, without 1 of them being a toxic pos... which also likes to be the captain obvious type at the same time. Telling you to do X and Y, yet said player themselves fucks up multiple times themselves. This is the player type that makes me not wanna do M+ in the pug life at all anymore. And that player type CANNOT be avoided. It will join any freaking group every time!

[Shaetha]

Checking Logs is not about if someone Parses Orange, its about if someone performs decent. Sadly, "Decent" in most cases are still Grey logs.

Never mind that raid and M+ are two different skill sets for most classes.

Not that the person that mentioned it actually does mythic plus. Someone that out of touch with reality probably doesn't even play the game.

- - - Updated - - -

IO is like a hammer, if used right a marvelous tool but you can also hurt with it. People just have to learn using r.io right instead of crying for penalties.

It's more like a nuke. It solves the problem, but the collateral damage it causes should make it not worth using. The average person is simply not equipped to handle such tools.

[LanToaster]

Never mind that raid and M+ are two different skill sets for most classes.

Not that the person that mentioned it actually does mythic plus. Someone that out of touch with reality probably doesn't even play the game.

Well, there are also Logs for M+ Dungeons, never really looked into those though as I have a Fixed M+ Group, dont really go beyond 15 and only ever take at most two Pugs, or join myself.

But anyhow seeing some 20%(Depending on Class/specc) Logs on all Heroic Bosses, says that he can at least do some damage and follow simple Tactics.
Its always what the person makes out of the Aviable Information.

[CrawlFromThePit]

Time constraints. For example, my guild starts raiding at 7pm (server time) = 2am (real time). I'm doomed to PuG raids and Mythic+

You act like you can't leave the guild and find one that suits your schedule. No you're not bound for life with that guild no matter how long you've been in there, how many real life friends you have in there and how many freaking wives you have in there. You can still play with anyone regardless of guild, the ONLY purpose of a guild is to make a raid team with people who have similar schedule. For everything else you can group or make a community for the chat with friends. There is not a single thing in the universe forcing you to stay in the objectively wrong guild for you.

[LanToaster]

I've been asking this in m+ threads a couple of times, never got an answer: what is wrong with having a depleted run on r.io? Sure if you see a player who only ever has depleted runs showing he might be bad, a good friend sticking to his team tho. A couple of depleted keys don't matter at all.

Nothing. Absolutely Nothing.
Your RIO score doesnt change, people (most likely) wont see them, unless they are the Highest Level you run.

The Rio Plugin shows:
Rio Score of your Specc/Offspecc,
Last Season,
MainChar if you Linked it
Highest Key you completed of the Dungeon Listed in the Tool. (If it was InTime or not)
The amount of Certain Bracket runs you Completed in time.

Also, your and your MainChar(if Linked) RaidProgress in the two Highest Difficulties you´ve done.

And on the Rio Page, you also only see the Highest of each dungeon you have run, unless you browse the Profile Extensively.

- - - Updated - - -

Time constraints. For example, my guild starts raiding at 7pm (server time) = 2am (real time). I'm doomed to PuG raids and Mythic+

You could find a Community.
E.g. I have my small Guild with a bunch of People, not enough for anything really.
But I also have my RaidCommunity, I started with having half my raid PuGs, and over the time people Stuck around.

[Relapses]

So either people just DC to circumvent it or we extend the punishment to disconnects and we risk innocent people potentially getting locked out of a season to punish a few bad eggs? Hard pass.

MMO-C: Fixing imaginary problems with solutions that are infinitely worse than the actual problems themselves since 2007.

Yes, it sucks when somebody fucks up your key. Yes, it happens to everybody who runs M+. No, it doesn't need to have punitive damages added to curb player behavior since you can just as easily form a new group and still finish your key if you so desire.

[bullseyed]

M+ pugging seems like the pinnacle of toxicity in woW, I don't get why ppl do it.

It isn't. The people who whine about it are horrifically bad.

[Ticj]

I agree with OP. It's too easy to grief other players by just leaving as soon as the key starts. It's why I almost never pug mythic+

[Great Destiny Man]

But youre happy with IO basing a players worth solely on whether or not the dungeon got timed? And that's why M+ will always be toxic. Because the tool used to evaluate players doesn't list anything other than whether or not it was timed. So leavers get no penalties, and good players who got into the wrong groups but tough it out to not screw over the other people will get screwed left and right.

Timed keys have a binary success outcome. You either timed it or you didn't. How much weight someone gives that is up to the player but there's absolutely no debate about whether the key was timed or not.

You cannot say the same of individual player performance. Saying someone is a good player because they did more dps than the other guy is a fucking joke if they literally did nothing to avoid damage or helped with deadly mechanics via things like interrupts/CCs. It being so subjective means it has no place in a system that uses quite basic data in its rankings.

[cparle87]

No, ppl dont want to spend time in a key if they are not timing it. Because it doesnt increase their IO. A failure doesnt affect their RIO, but why should they waste their OWN time to finish something that gives them nothing?

I wasn't aware they removed loot from the end of the run and from your weekly chest when you don't time your key? When did this happen? /s

[arkanon]

As with anything like this, i think its just far too open to abuse. Its a real shame, but the two things are related; We feel like we need this because of negative players causing issues burning keys, and we cant put a simple solution in place because those same players would cause issues abusing it.

I like that competitive players eager to push content have an outlet in M+, but with that comes a similar level of toxicity that we encounter in Mobas. Again, i dont really have a solution that isnt open to abuse. Even something like the votekick system has been iterated on mutliple times and is still abused to this day, but we dont really hear about it because its only normal/heroic and everyone is doing M+.

[Great Destiny Man]

MMO-C: Fixing imaginary problems with solutions that are infinitely worse than the actual problems themselves since 2007.

Yes, it sucks when somebody fucks up your key. Yes, it happens to everybody who runs M+. No, it doesn't need to have punitive damages added to curb player behavior since you can just as easily form a new group and still finish your key if you so desire.

Pretty much. Like I accept the problem is there but people are so fixated on getting vengeance on people that inconvenienced them that they're either ignorant of the affect that vengeance has on innocent parties or just dont care.

All punitive measures do is further incentivise people not to run in PuGs and then we'll just have people whining that M+ accessibility is worse than it was before. 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

[Rinaul]

So... Why can't you just leave? I fail to see why this vote system is needed. A busted key isn't that hard to run up again unless you got that high key by getting carried and no longer have access to that group.

[HumbleDuck]

Ok, I'll afk till the group kicks me. Problem solved.

Well, that's when reports come into play.

- - - Updated - - -

If your group is shit, why would you stay? If you disconnect you singlehandedly removed a portion of the content a person does.
All your idea provides is a problem which makes me go "Oh, so i just have to FORCE a person to leave then I can leave without issue, gotcha."
This is why games like league of legends don't have a kick feature

You know about LoL's leaver buster punishment system, right?

[thunderdragon2]

M+ pugging seems like the pinnacle of toxicity in woW, I don't get why ppl do it.

Just join a guild or smt wtf

theres a simple reason, and ive been caught in this many times so here's my example.

its noon you wake up/get home form work and you want to do keys you see 4 ppl in 1 of you guilds discord channels pop in and hear that thye are doing a mythic+ and ask if you can join the next 1 they say sorry doing a few with a friend, thats fine they are entitled to do so, then you go to guild chat none seems interested as they just did a few, so you are stuck puging if you want to do a key

[Bloodyleech]

Well, that's when reports come into play.

"Had to go afk, my daugther fell" "had to go afk, xyz"
One doesnt leave 20 times a day, they wont be able to do anything against this.

[thunderdragon2]

It's a good idea but I'd like to take it a step further.

Ban every dps from the current season if they do below tank dps.
Whenever someone dies to grevious the healer loses 100 rio permanently.
Tanks who pull more than 105% trash are banned from using the tank spec for a week.
Every mob/boss not pulled by the tank gains 800% increased damage and health for the rest of the dungeon.
If there are more than 20 overall deaths in a dungeon the person with the most deaths will have their character deleted, unrestorable. If there's a tie they both get deleted.
DC'ing during an M+ run will charge your blizzard account for 13 Euros.

I think these changes would help us build a much more friendly m+ pug community.

sadly you had me till the over 20 deaths one you will just have more ppl quitting and less people to group with.

i got bored of retail and went to classic but that deaths rule will make me avoid m+

also what if the designers and in some classic esq encounters where its btter for a ranged to pull a pack/boss rather than a tank?

[Garymorilix]

sadly you had me till the over 20 deaths one you will just have more ppl quitting and less people to group with.

i got bored of retail and went to classic but that deaths rule will make me avoid m+

also what if the designers and in some classic esq encounters where its btter for a ranged to pull a pack/boss rather than a tank?

What if?
Well those mobs/bosses get 800% increased damage and health, duh..