Rightful orcish territory

[Schattenlied]

You don't understand the definition of rightful.

They have no rights to any land on Azeroth, especially not land that has been inhabited by actual denizens native to Azeroth for thousands of years. The only land they have rights to is on Draenor.

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Outland is a barren shithole full of demons. It's unsustainable, which we see visually in the Sadfang/Thrall cinematic, but this was confirmed even before with how it's gradually further sinking into the Nether.

Well, maybe they shouldn't have blown up their planet by opening portals to invade other worlds then... Maybe they should have been happy with the one they had and not made a pact with the Legion and drank the obviously-a-bad-idea demon blood. They have no one to blame for that but themselves.

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Trolls: Are we a joke to you?

Trolls would have never come to be without the Titans defeating the Black Empire, and then seeding life on Azeroth, which then had it's evolution accelerated by the Well of Eternity. They evolved from that seeded life, they did not come about naturally.


All life on Azeroth, be they curse of flesh humans/dwarves/gnomes, or trolls, tauren, and elves, all owe their existence to the Titans...

And technically the Titanforged races' ancestors were on Azeroth before the trolls were... So... An argument can be made that they have a stronger claim than the trolls do.

[Aenwyrm]

I'll just leave this quote from Turalyon from the Second War on the subject of Orcs on Azeroth:

"By the Light, your time here has ended! You are not of this world, not of the Holy Light. You do not belong here! Begone!"

Guess that pretty much solves it.

[Jastall]

Outland is a barren shithole full of demons. It's unsustainable, which we see visually in the Sadfang/Thrall cinematic, but this was confirmed even before with how it's gradually further sinking into the Nether.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but that's pretty much completely the fault of the Orcs as well, so from the PoV of other people it seems a fitting punishment to deal with their actions.

Not that current Orcs should pay for the actions of Ner'zul, Gul'dan and their merry band of evil sorcerer types, they already have a laundry list of their own atrocities to deal with first.

[Dalheim]

The only rightful territory they had was on Draenor and they blew that one up themselves.

No, Ner'zhul did that due to him being a dipshit and not being able to open a rift properly.

I'll just leave this quote from Turalyon from the Second War on the subject of Orcs on Azeroth:

"By the Light, your time here has ended! You are not of this world, not of the Holy Light. You do not belong here! Begone!"

Guess that pretty much solves it.

Well, what Turalyon thinks is irrelevant, since he's literally a Light Doormat.

[Devonitar]

Planet herself accepts orcs as its inhabitants, so I would say that takes care of the "hue, hue orcs go Outland" part.

And no, all this land is not theirs and is not going to be theirs, ever. And that's because orcs are pretty much incompetent when it comes to land.

[Super Dickmann]

It isn't entirely a shithole. Nagrand is almost a paradise, and both Terokkar and Zangarmash are quite inhabitable. As for the parts that are still crummy and filled with demons, maybe the orcs and/or the Horde should focus more on cleansing the rest of Draenor, instead of constantly attempting to conquer a planet that isn't theirs?

I will admit that I never watched any of the Sadfang cinematics, save for the last one. Do you recall where specifically it said that Draenor was sinking into the Nether? Given how retcon-happy Blizzard is these days, I wouldn't be surprised if it was from a source that is no longer valid.

You've not lost much from not watching the Sadfang cinematic, but in them he visits Thrall who's set up a farm on Nagrand and while it can technically support agriculture, it's unsustainable and collapses long-term. The bit about it sinking into the Nether comes from the Illidan book and I think from that one mage from the Council of Six who's name escapes me at the moment - Vargoth. Essentially, while it's unclear just how long it has to live, it's still on a timer.

@Schattenlied @Jastall

Oh, no argument there, they did fuck up Draenor. It might have helped if the Draenei had passed a message 'Hey, we're being chased by an unstoppable army of demons who've destroyed every world we've so far touched, just FYI", but the orcs are still culpable for taking the deal and rendering the planet in that state. Much as people would thus not be too happy to let them set up on Azeroth, the orcs themselves have no reason to give any a bit of a shit about this and any orcish leader is morally obligated to provide the best possible land and future opportunities for the race he's in charge of.

[Raisei]

But if you're artificially created are you really even native? The titans could've left titanforged on dozens of worlds that had old gods who eventually succumbed to the curse of flesh and became mortal beings. The eredar are the only playable race with no titanic origin, and now knowing of Argus that even brings that into question.

The Titans did seed life on many planets. Though Draenor was not inhabited by Old Gods, so I guess Aggramar actually made the Orcs as beings of flesh and blood, not as titanforged, bit strange. Suffice to say that they were born there so yes, that makes them "native" by definition of the word. Of course that goes for many Orcs that live today on Azeroth. The difference is that Draenor did not belong to other people before they arrived.

Argus was pretty much in infantile state until much later, I doubt he could have created the Eredar and Sargeras only later learned of them when they became useful to him (or might even have been the Nathrezim telling him about them), so I don't think the Pantheon we know has created them.

No, Ner'zhul did that due to him being a dipshit and not being able to open a rift properly.

And Ner'zhul was what? A Vulpera?

He was Warchief of the Orcish Horde, so yes Orcs destroyed Draenor.

[Minikin]

I giggle everytime when I read "orcs are not from Azeroth, no land is theirs".

Ummm, WARCRAFT, hello?!

Whatever you conquer during war times, is rightfully yours??

Except they lost darskhore warfront. So OPs map is all wrong.

[Xath]

They have no rightful land on Azeroth. They can go back to Outland and scramble for life on the shattered husk they made that is their rightful land.

[Greengrim]

Except they lost darskhore warfront. So OPs map is all wrong.

Nah, I'm not refering to OP's map, I was just a bit surprised to see so many "orcs are not from Azeroth so no land is rightfully theirs" as this statement was only valid at the point the orcs arrived on Azeroth. The moment they started conquering lands that fact changed, and the conquered lands became rightfully theirs.

[DeltrusDisc]

How dare you give them Darkshore! For Elune! /casts StarShards

[guisadop]

Just like in real life, the only rightful territory is the territory you can keep by force.

[LanToaster]

Blizzard already said that Horde lost at darkshore lol.

Well, this might be a bit Fanboyism on my Part, but the way they Portraied Malfurion on Darkshore clearly shows that the Horde got ripped apart. *laugh*

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Nah, I'm not refering to OP's map, I was just a bit surprised to see so many "orcs are not from Azeroth so no land is rightfully theirs" as this statement was only valid at the point the orcs arrived on Azeroth. The moment they started conquering lands that fact changed, and the conquered lands became rightfully theirs.

Yea, thats what I´ve thought aswell, thats how having land "Rightfully" works. You Conquer it, and after some time its "Just yours", until someone else Conquers it.

[Vilendor]

I giggle everytime when I read "orcs are not from Azeroth, no land is theirs".

Ummm, WARCRAFT, hello?!

Whatever you conquer during war times, is rightfully yours??

Your twisted logic doesn't change much. The Alliance literally conquered Orgrimmar and everything orcs ever owned.

[LanToaster]

Your twisted logic doesn't change much. The Alliance literally conquered Orgrimmar and everything orcs ever owned.

Yea, but for whatever stupid reason, the alliance always gives it back. I think the only thing afaik the Alliance kept was the Blighted lands of Lordearon, because not even the Forsaken want it anymore.

[Krothar]

All these people arguing that "Orcs are from Draenor so they don't have a claim on anything".

Tell that to Americans. Sure, not from space but I'm almost 100% sure any American would say that America belongs to Americans.

[Gaidax]

Rightful orcish territory:

[Aleksej89]

Orc territory is draenor (and they share it with others like ogres).

Any territory orcs have on azeroth is taken/conquered, but that is normal for almost all races in warcraft.

Honestly "rightful" does not matter at all in medieval times.

[iosdeveloper]

Orcs and Draenei are aliens from space.
If orcish shamans healed a few desecrated zones like Felwood or EPL, maybe then we could talk.

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Rightful orcish territory:

lol, good one

[Vilendor]

Yea, but for whatever stupid reason, the alliance always gives it back. I think the only thing afaik the Alliance kept was the Blighted lands of Lordearon, because not even the Forsaken want it anymore.

Varian gave it back to Vol'jin, not the orcs. And technically (according to Greengrim's logic) the orcs didn't conquer anything, they just live there by the mercy of Varian. LoL what a loosers