Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Kellhound]

I've known a few people that used SKS's, but the AK's just never seemed as popular for hunting. And of course, Mini30's are common enough.

They are good at close range, and part of it was to make a point...

[Coolthulhu]

Less rounds and shotguns have more recoil. Some people after firing the first shot, may not be able to get off a second one quick enough. The HighPoint, in 9mm for example, is going to have considerably less recoil then a 12 ga. would.

I agree with that. But I would still love to have a Grease Gun submachine gun like the one I used when I was in the Army. That thing was fun to shoot. lol!

But the discussion needs to be discussed, so the misinformation being put out by some politicians, is just flat out wrong and is heading toward a slippery road with no return. I do however, agree the discussion with some, is a waste of time. Like how it would be if I was to try to have a honest discussion with Biden on the subject. :P

While our contribution here has very little direct impact on the discussion, it still is a way for imput. And the more people who will get the correct information out to the masses, the better. Too many are like sheep, being led by the opinions of others, without knowing the truth.

Still not sure if I'd take a 9 mm carbine as a home defense weapon. A .45 maybe, after all that's what I keep as a sidearm (in its pistol form though). Sure, shotties have less rounds, but a single round from a 12 gauge be it buckshot or slug is far more likely to neutralize a threat than a 9 mm (and also to hit if you're using buckshot), and you can mount some on a shell rack - you can even keep some different types on said rack, for instance I keep some lethal and some rubber ones there so I can quickly adapt to the situation. The latter are more of a concern recoil-wise because they shoot rubber so they can't be underpowered (whereas there are a fair amount of underpowered shells for home defense available, and they really make a difference in recoil management, without being any less effective at neutralizing targets at home defense ranges). Plus, 8 shells + rack should be enough for a typical burglary scenario (and again I think it's a good idea to also have a sidearm handy). However, as always, the best weapon is the one you are more comfortable with, so to each his own

As to the rest, you're probably right, though some people are so blinded by ideology as to disregard the plain and simple truth.

I was going to buy some bean bag rounds for 12ga, but they're harder to find than they should be. A few oddball internet companies, but none of the big guys I deal with.

55gr will function well in any twist from 1/7 to 1/12, lighter than 55gr you'd need 1/9 to 1/12 depending, and above 55gr you'd want the 1/7 or 1/8. But You won't be finding anything above 1/9 anymore in an ar15, so the point is moot. To find an AR15 that is chambered in a tight chamber 223, vs Wylde (a few) or 5.56 (majority) is near impossible nowadays, at least in the US market.
If shopping for bolt action rifles, 223 vs 5.56 might matter, but in any MSR, 55gr 5.56 is default.

I don't trust bean bags for some reason, I'd rather go with bullet shot or slugs. Fiocchi has some excellent less-than-lethal rounds intended for LE, dunno whether they're available there, but they're available here and that's what I use. Don't really know about other brands because I tried the Fiocchi ones and never went back.

As to the other matter, .223 natives are more common in Europe, especially in some AR-clones, and I recall a couple of accidents from loading 5,56 in them. 55gr is standard here as well, serves most twists well too, but when you get into specialty rounds (with tombac plating ones for instance) you have to adjust things a little.
I use anywhere from 45 to 77gr (55 included). But I'm rather fastidious, the most important advice to those less into guns (who might want to start with a bolt-action, at least that's what people are trained with in the beginning here as opposed to semi-autos, so someone's "first rifle" is usually bolt-action) is to just keep in mind not to use 5,56 in .223 to avoid harm to self and others.

Anyways considering this thread is now about everything guns I have not the will to sift through pages of gun owners wanking each other over what they'll buy next while ignoring ongoing discussions. Coolthulu was one of the last to even care about discussing things, everyone else weasels out as soon as they meet their own hypocrisy or arguments.

Have fun with whatever you guys are buying next and stay safe.

I'll still be here to discuss stuff when available, but I don't think I'll feel compelled to reiterate the differences (or lack thereof) between a non military-style semi-auto and a military-style one, or between an AR-15 and an AK-47 (either type can be semi or full auto capable, since that was the concern of a poster above) - stuff that is easily googlable.

On the other hand, while I wouldn't want to dignify posts such as the one Zan15 made, where he compared a clearly not responsible and most likely racist nutter with a good guy with a gun, it'll be hard for me to ignore such inanities given some free minutes.

Bullshit, he was a good guy with a gun up to the point he showed he was just another asshole with a gun.

See, Mayhem? This is find it hard to dignify some users with an answers. What utterly and absolutely ridiculous argument, the same brilliant modus cogitandi can be applied to literally anyone, in any field. Yet you're here with foam at your mouth because we're talking about guns and you suffer from severe hoplophobia and ideological poisoning.

[Ghostpanther]

Still not sure if I'd take a 9 mm carbine as a home defense weapon. A .45 maybe, after all that's what I keep as a sidearm (in its pistol form though). Sure, shotties have less rounds, but a single round from a 12 gauge be it buckshot or slug is far more likely to neutralize a threat than a 9 mm (and also to hit if you're using buckshot), and you can mount some on a shell rack - you can even keep some different types on said rack, for instance I keep some lethal and some rubber ones there so I can quickly adapt to the situation. The latter are more of a concern recoil-wise because they shoot rubber so they can't be underpowered (whereas there are a fair amount of underpowered shells for home defense available, and they really make a difference in recoil management, without being any less effective at neutralizing targets at home defense ranges). Plus, 8 shells + rack should be enough for a typical burglary scenario (and again I think it's a good idea to also have a sidearm handy). However, as always, the best weapon is the one you are more comfortable with, so to each his own

As to the rest, you're probably right, though some people are so blinded by ideology as to disregard the plain and simple truth.

You can get the Highpoint Carbine in .40, .45 and 10mm calibers. Personally, I would not have any issues using one in 9mm. But yeah, each to his own.

And there are literally millions of people who are being misled by the media and politicians when it comes to firearms.

[Coolthulhu]

You can get the Highpoint Carbine in .40, .45 and 10mm calibers. Personally, I would not have any issues using one in 9mm. But yeah, each to his own.

And there are literally millions of people who are being misled by the media and politicians when it comes to firearms.

Whatever works better, yeah - I don't feel the need for one because I already have a Px4 SD (the SD only comes in .45) and a Cx4 (also in .45 so I can share mags), and I've never been a good shot with 9 mm for some reason. I can see situations in which using the Cx4 would have advantages over the Px4, such as the lakeside house which has a very big garden, but in that case I prefer to use a carbine proper. On top of the ever-present shotgun because if given the chance to avoid killing someone, I'll try to.
If I didn't have a variety of carbines to choose from I'd use the Cx4 there though, I can see the advantages of a carbine-pistol (so to say), especially when using .45 rounds so hot that are basically "11 mm Auto". Helps with the recoil management quite a lot, and the Px4 already does a good job with its rotating barrel, mind you, but not good enough to allow for precision and quickness past 20-25 meters or so. Also, those loads are inadvisable in low-light conditions - especially in a handgun, because they turn it into a flamethrower. The Cx4 came with a flash suppressor so that's much less of an issues, too.

As to the media and politicians misleading the general public, that's nothing new, and not limited to firearms either - but it is something that must be fought against, as with any kind of disinformation - or "fake news", as the current trend goes.

[Ghostpanther]

Whatever works better, yeah - I don't feel the need for one because I already have a Px4 SD (the SD only comes in .45) and a Cx4 (also in .45 so I can share mags), and I've never been a good shot with 9 mm for some reason. I can see situations in which using the Cx4 would have advantages over the Px4, such as the lakeside house which has a very big garden, but in that case I prefer to use a carbine proper. On top of the ever-present shotgun because if given the chance to avoid killing someone, I'll try to.
If I didn't have a variety of carbines to choose from I'd use the Cx4 there though, I can see the advantages of a carbine-pistol (so to say), especially when using .45 rounds so hot that are basically "11 mm Auto". Helps with the recoil management quite a lot, and the Px4 already does a good job with its rotating barrel, mind you, but not good enough to allow for precision and quickness past 20-25 meters or so. Also, those loads are inadvisable in low-light conditions - especially in a handgun, because they turn it into a flamethrower. The Cx4 came with a flash suppressor so that's much less of an issues, too.

As to the media and politicians misleading the general public, that's nothing new, and not limited to firearms either - but it is something that must be fought against, as with any kind of disinformation - or "fake news", as the current trend goes.

There is the matter of cost too for some to consider. Not only in the cost of the firearm, but ammo.

There is the often shown video of Tucker Carson, asking a congress member who is working on a gun bill, " What is a barrel shroud?" ( mentioned in the bill she was working on ) and she couldn't tell him. Said she did not know what it was. :P

And the even more dumber one where a legislator was telling others in a meeting on gun control, that magazines, once the rounds are all gone in it, they can no longer be used. lol!

[Coolthulhu]

There is the matter of cost too for some to consider. Not only in the cost of the firearm, but ammo.

There is the often shown video of Tucker Carson, asking a congress member who is working on a gun bill, " What is a barrel shroud?" ( mentioned in the bill she was working on ) and she couldn't tell him. Said she did not know what it was. :P

And the even more dumber one where a legislator was telling others in a meeting on gun control, that magazines, once the rounds are all gone in it, they can no longer be used. lol!

I tend to disregard the cost factor, yeah, my fault. .45 is far more expensive than 9 mm and so is Beretta compared to High Point I suppose. As to politicians and journalists, I remember a delightfully tragicomedic piece written by a journalist who went and tried an AR-15 at a gun range after a school shooting and wrote something among the lines of "firing it gave me PTSD" - a claim which he somewhat recanted after getting righteously mocked and criticized, if memory serves. Now if I could find th- ah, here he is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gersh_Kuntzman

P.s. imagine had he tried a bigger caliber than the tiny 5,56. Probably would've ended up institutionalized.

[Ghostpanther]

I tend to disregard the cost factor, yeah, my fault. .45 is far more expensive than 9 mm and so is Beretta compared to High Point I suppose. As to politicians and journalists, I remember a delightfully tragicomedic piece written by a journalist who went and tried an AR-15 at a gun range after a school shooting and wrote something among the lines of "firing it gave me PTSD" - a claim which he somewhat recanted after getting righteously mocked and criticized, if memory serves. Now if I could find th- ah, here he is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gersh_Kuntzman

ROFL!! Good grief! What a wimp! He would have passed out if he had shot a .308 hunting rifle. Or the German bolt action 7.6x54.

[Stormdash]

Some guy responded to the recoil trauma fool by posting a video of himself firing an AR one handed with the stock rested on the tip of his nose, it was great.

June's gun sales numbers are out... ho boy, gun control is over for a generation. Just under 2.4 million new firearm purchases, a 145% increase PCYA. Handgun sales within that 177%. At the beginning of June it was estimated there were more than 2 million new first time gun owners up to that point in 2019, I'm guessing probably over 3m now.

If you want evidence, hit the internet and look for any pistol with an MSRP under, say, $600. They're thin on the ground. Low price manufacturers who probably don't get big orders have been cleaned out completely.

[Coolthulhu]

ROFL!! Good grief! What a wimp! He would have passed out if he had shot a .308 hunting rifle. Or the German bolt action 7.6x54.

Honestly, I think he was just exaggerating on purpose in order to further his narrative (and that particular piece he wrote was obviously intended for people who never handled a firearm in their life, because those who did know how much of a measly recoil a 5,56 has). If he was sincere, then I feel even more sorry for him and/or whoever instructed him on how to handle the weapon, but mostly for him. I mean, I'm 5'7'' × 110 lbs and can manage a .338 LM (standing) just fine. Sure, follow-up shots aren't terribly quick if I'm standing, but it doesn't knock me on my ass. The .700 almost literally did though, but that's an elephant gun, so yeah.

Some guy responded to the recoil trauma fool by posting a video of himself firing an AR one handed with the stock rested on the tip of his nose, it was great.

I remember that.



Plenty of similar videos around. There was another one demonstrating how a shotgun can be fired just as quickly as an AR-15 but I can't seem to find it - and iit also pointed out that one can easily find "high capacity" mags for a plethora of semi-auto shotguns, it doesn't take a scary-looking Saiga-12 series for that purpose (it's also not difficult to find a Saiga-12, at least not in Europe, and I'm sure there are bound to be Saiga clones for sale in the US).

That being said, I'm not sure how to feel about gun sales soaring in the US. It's easily explainable due to the current climate (pandemic paranoia + I can't breathe tensions) and impending elections, but I'm not sure how to feel about it. Or rather, I'm happy I'm living in Europe at the moment for the aforementioned reasons, regardless of the soar in gun sales, which isn't reassuring because it means people are scared and furthers my theory of the political and social climate being rather bad there. Outsider's perspective, of course.

[Saucexorzski]

Honestly, I think he was just exaggerating on purpose in order to further his narrative (and that particular piece he wrote was obviously intended for people who never handled a firearm in their life, because those who did know how much of a measly recoil a 5,56 has). If he was sincere, then I feel even more sorry for him and/or whoever instructed him on how to handle the weapon, but mostly for him. I mean, I'm 5'7'' × 110 lbs and can manage a .338 LM (standing) just fine. Sure, follow-up shots aren't terribly quick if I'm standing, but it doesn't knock me on my ass. The .700 almost literally did though, but that's an elephant gun, so yeah.


I remember that.



Plenty of similar videos around. There was another one demonstrating how a shotgun can be fired just as quickly as an AR-15 but I can't seem to find it - and iit also pointed out that one can easily find "high capacity" mags for a plethora of semi-auto shotguns, it doesn't take a scary-looking Saiga-12 series for that purpose (it's also not difficult to find a Saiga-12, at least not in Europe, and I'm sure there are bound to be Saiga clones for sale in the US).

That being said, I'm not sure how to feel about gun sales soaring in the US. It's easily explainable due to the current climate (pandemic paranoia + I can't breathe tensions) and impending elections, but I'm not sure how to feel about it. Or rather, I'm happy I'm living in Europe at the moment for the aforementioned reasons, regardless of the soar in gun sales, which isn't reassuring because it means people are scared and furthers my theory of the political and social climate being rather bad there. Outsider's perspective, of course.

Yep, I expect some pretty horrid stuff from the losing side of the next election, no matter who wins.

[Ghostpanther]

Yep, I expect some pretty horrid stuff from the losing side of the next election, no matter who wins.

Which is one more reason to be prepared to defend yourself.

[Saucexorzski]

Which is one more reason to be prepared to defend yourself.

mmhmm, always.

[Ghostpanther]

mmhmm, always.

True. I wear my little .380 auto on my side even when I am outside working on my rural homestead. Like having a smoke detector....you never know. Bad shit happens.

[Stormdash]

True. I wear my little .380 auto on my side even when I am outside working on my rural homestead. Like having a smoke detector....you never know. Bad shit happens.

I'm running out of justification to spend too much more but I both miss my Px4 full size 9mm and kinda would love either a p238 or a 380 Shield EZ.

[Ghostpanther]

I'm running out of justification to spend too much more but I both miss my Px4 full size 9mm and kinda would love either a p238 or a 380 Shield EZ.

I have two .380 auto pistols. One is a LCPII Ruger, which I really like the trigger on it and it is my carry conceal firearm of choice. The other is my cheap, but reliable Taurus Spectrum I carry on my side when outside working at home. I do not care much for the trigger on it. But it has never failed to fire. And if I happen to lose it when working outside, I have not lost much money.

I have a large red rubber band around the grip, so it will be easier to see if it happens to come out of the holster accidentally. It hasn't yet and it is in a good holster. The reason I like the two .380's I have, is they are small and I hardly know I am carrying one. The Ruger fits nicely in a inside the waist ban holster and no one can see I am wearing it. In each I also have them loaded with ARX defense ammo. Much better than even the hollow points for self defense. Given the projectile over 1200 fps muzzle velocity.

[Maneo]

Some guy responded to the recoil trauma fool by posting a video of himself firing an AR one handed with the stock rested on the tip of his nose, it was great.

June's gun sales numbers are out... ho boy, gun control is over for a generation. Just under 2.4 million new firearm purchases, a 145% increase PCYA. Handgun sales within that 177%. At the beginning of June it was estimated there were more than 2 million new first time gun owners up to that point in 2019, I'm guessing probably over 3m now.

If you want evidence, hit the internet and look for any pistol with an MSRP under, say, $600. They're thin on the ground. Low price manufacturers who probably don't get big orders have been cleaned out completely.

Don't worry we will still have people preaching to us from other countries.

[the game]

Some guy responded to the recoil trauma fool by posting a video of himself firing an AR one handed with the stock rested on the tip of his nose, it was great.

June's gun sales numbers are out... ho boy, gun control is over for a generation. Just under 2.4 million new firearm purchases, a 145% increase PCYA. Handgun sales within that 177%. At the beginning of June it was estimated there were more than 2 million new first time gun owners up to that point in 2019, I'm guessing probably over 3m now.

If you want evidence, hit the internet and look for any pistol with an MSRP under, say, $600. They're thin on the ground. Low price manufacturers who probably don't get big orders have been cleaned out completely.

I pick up my guns this week. Already been buying whatever ammo I can get ahold of.

[Ghostpanther]

I pick up my guns this week. Already been buying whatever ammo I can get ahold of.

Good. Sounds like you got them at the right time.

As a side note, notice how the media is referring to the recent violent death's over the July 4th weekend, as gun violence? As if the guns caused the death's instead of criminals. Why not refer to it as criminals shooting death's? Or criminals using guns to kill others?

When the terrorists used the airplanes to kill thousands on 9/11, they did not refer to it as airplane violence. :P

[the game]

Good. Sounds like you got them at the right time.

As a side note, notice how the media is referring to the recent violent death's over the July 4th weekend, as gun violence? As if the guns caused the death's instead of criminals. Why not refer to it as criminals shooting death's? Or criminals using guns to kill others?

When the terrorists used the airplanes to kill thousands on 9/11, they did not refer to it as airplane violence. :P

I'll actually be getting a shotgun as well next month. I'm hoping I can get an 870 express combo. it's a great shotgun

[The Butt Witch]

The Hog's career in politics is pretty much over. No way he can still push for gun confiscations while the country is rapidly approaching civil war.