Why are games so handholdy and want to help you as much as it possibly can nowadays?

[Deathknightish]

In the past, games actually made you think. If you wanted to find your way you either had to explore, or look for clues when talking to NPCs and such. Puzzles were often clever and didn't give you many hints at all.

Today, all you have to do it lock your eyes on the minimap for waypoints, and if you can't find the solution for a puzzle in 1 minute, a prompt shows up that gives you the answer directly (Uncharted and The Last of Us are major sinners in this case).

Why is this? I mean, I know why. There are lots more people playing now, but WHY is this? Is the average gamer today dumber, or at least less patient, than us who grew up during the 80s and 90s? Is all they want instant gratification? Don't they want to earn the reward by themselves?

I don't care if I give off a "the old days were better, dumb kids!"-vibe, because my favourite hobby keeps require less and less brain power. Soon you can just look at the screen and just press forward, and the game will complete itself.

And yes yes, I know that there are still indie and AA games that are designed like in the 90s, but back then even the highest, most expensive games didn't just hold your hand and give you participation trophies for just putting in the disc.

[Nitros14]

Have you tried Sekiro, Bloodborne or Dark Souls 2/3?

[Blackmist]

All this coincided with one major technological feature: Achievement tracking. As soon as developers could see where people stopped playing the game, they took those bits out.

Games are designed to be finished now. They want you to finish the game, and get excited for the next one. You're not going to buy Uncharted 3 if you spent an hour looking for a key in Uncharted 2 and then gave up.

[Deathknightish]

Have you tried Sekiro, Bloodborne or Dark Souls 2/3?

Tried, and completed. Also Nioh 1/2, The Surge 2 and some other clones. Those games are not the norm in today's day and age, sadly. They are a fresh breeze.

[scelero]

anyone remember buying strategy guides/books. having magazine subscriptions of Tips & Tricks.

Yeah. lets remove it from the game and make people buy it as DLC in the form of books and magazines again.

I do miss big ass manuals, maps, mob charts, etc though.

[Onikaroshi]

I know of at least one game that was designed difficult specifically to get people to BUY it instead of renting it. Don't know how common that was though lol.

[n7stormreaver]

The game industry is a business, they need to sell as many games as possible, they appeal to the largest player base - the casual players, who buy these games and do not complain about the handholding.

[Deathknightish]

Another example is the braindead level design. Compare the level design of DooM Eternal to DooM 1 and 2.

Sure, it's not AS bad as completely linear shooters, but it's still so linear in comparison to the mazes you got lost in in DooM 1 and 2, but also other 90s shooters. I still enjoyed DOoM Eternal, mind you, but there are no shooters today with the excellent level design that 90's shooters had that had you run around, just having fun exploring.

[Onikaroshi]

Another example is the braindead level design. Compare the level design of DooM Eternal to DooM 1 and 2.

Sure, it's not AS bad as completely linear shooters, but it's still so linear in comparison to the mazes you got lost in in DooM 1 and 2, but also other 90s shooters. I still enjoyed DOoM Eternal, mind you, but there are no shooters today with the excellent level design that 90's shooters had that had you run around, just having fun exploring.

TBF when it comes to doom 1/2 the fast paced murdering was completely off put by the slow down of looking for keys, it ruined the pacing. (in my opinion anyway)

Compared to DOOM (haven't played eternal) where it's just all murder all the time.

[Deathknightish]

The game industry is a business, they need to sell as many games as possible, they appeal to the largest player base - the casual players, who buy these games and do not complain about the handholding.

Sure, I get that, but WHY don't they complain about the handholding? Are they literally worse at video games than 8 year old me? Getting lost was the norm for me, and as English is not my native language I couldn't use any linguistic clues to find my way well until my teens. I still managed to beat most games.

Casual does not mean stupid. Do casuals really enjoy having no challenge? I consider myself a casual nowadays, compared to how much I used to play games. Now I'm happy if I get to play like 2 hours every second or third day or something.

[Onikaroshi]

Sure, I get that, but WHY don't they complain about the handholding? Are they literally worse at video games than 8 year old me? Getting lost was the norm for me, and as English is not my native language I couldn't use any linguistic clues to find my way well until my teens. I still managed to beat most games.

Casual does not mean stupid. Do casuals really enjoy having no challenge?

You'd be surprised how bad the avg person is.

[Deathknightish]

You'd be surprised how bad the avg person is.

Maybe. I don't have any reference to compare with. All my video game friends are from my generation and got similar experiences to video games. What I like with challenging video games is the brain exersise part of it. Finding the solution to a really difficult puzzle really makes me feel good.

[Onikaroshi]

Maybe. I don't have any reference to compare with. All my video game friends are from my generation and got similar experiences to video games. What I like with challenging video games is the brain exersise part of it. Finding the solution to a really difficult puzzle really makes me feel good.

puzzles have definitely been something that has been reduced, look at re 2 ps1 vs the remake even, or especially re3 remake, almost no puzzles.

[Lex Icon]

gaming pretty much implies you're doing something because it's fun.
what you "challenge is the only true fun" folk need to understand is that plenty of us aren't interested in playing games that are meant to "piss you off"

[Tyris Flare]

I grew up on those games and have absolutely no patience for that stuff in single-player games anymore. If I get lost for a few minutes I just look something up because I don't want to waste time.

I am part of the problem!

[Tech614]

Almost every game offers the option to turn those "handholding" features off nowadays so I ask if it's bothering you so much why didn't you just turn them off instead of trying to gate keep others who may like them?

Contrary to gate keeping mentality options are not a bad thing.

[Deathknightish]

gaming pretty much implies you're doing something because it's fun.
what you "challenge is the only true fun" folk need to understand is that plenty of us aren't interested in playing games that are meant to "piss you off"

Why is it fun pressing buttons if it doesn't challenge you in any way? It just sounds like the equivalent to staying on a 4-piece puzzle level forever and never progressing to those 2 000 piece puzzles.

[Alcsaar]

Its a matter of what you want out of a game. You would probably like puzzle games. At this point in my life - I wouldn't. I grew up playing Ultima Online when I was like 11 years old - a true sandbox mmorpg with no hand holding. As I got older, spending way too much time looking for obscure clues became less interesting. I wanted to experience the parts of the game that I found fun, like killing things, or customizing my houses/towns, or whatever.

I don't want to spend 30 mins on a quest that wants me to find a specific acorn under a tree or something. That isn't enjoyable to me.

[Lex Icon]

Why is it fun pressing buttons if it doesn't challenge you in any way? It just sounds like the equivalent to staying on a 4-piece puzzle level forever and never progressing to those 2 000 piece puzzles.

i dunno? because i'm not looking for said challenge to begin with?

[Deathknightish]

Almost every game offers the option to turn those "handholding" features off nowadays so I ask if it's bothering you so much why didn't you just turn them off instead of trying to gate keep others who may like them?

Contrary to gate keeping mentality options are not a bad thing.

The problem is that the game is more often than not designed around those handholding systems. In the past, designers put up these clever landmarks to make it easier for you to find your way, without excplicitly telling you where to go. Modern games don't have those landmarks, even if you turn the handholding off, which just makes it frustrating.

And in other games, it's not possible to fully turn it off. Take Assassin's Creed Odyssey for instance. It's possible to turn off markers and waypoints, sure, BUT as soon as you approach your target and get near him, the game will still flash and tell you "THE TARGET IS HERE, RIGHT HERE! SUMMON IKAROS TO FIND HIM!".