Significant change to M+ gear drop rates in Shadowlands

[Relapses]

Is it going to be one item for the entire 5-man group? or 1 item per person?

One item in the end-of-dungeon chest, exactly as Ion said.

[Wuusah]

but I don't see why such a massive nerf was necessary.

In Legion and BfA you got 3 items per finished run, but you didn't really want that item. You wanted a warforged/titanforged version of it. So you got the item and then you went back into the same dungeon and did it again and again and again until you got your gg roll. With 8.3 they removed titanforging and replaced it with corruptions which were even more insane RNG bullshit.

In Shadowlands when you get an item you get an item. It's the best version of the item you can get from that source. In the end it's the same thing. Does it really make a difference if you go 10 times into the same dungeon to get the item you want in an actually good version instead of going into a dungeon 10 times to get the item at all? I'd rather have the item be rare and make a difference when you get it.

[Relapses]

In Legion and BfA you got 3 items per finished run, but you didn't really want that item. You wanted a warforged/titanforged version of it. So you got the item and then you went back into the same dungeon and did it again and again and again until you got your gg roll. With 8.3 they removed titanforging and replaced it with corruptions which were even more insane RNG bullshit.

In Shadowlands when you get an item you get an item. It's the best version of the item you can get from that source. In the end it's the same thing. Does it really make a difference if you go 10 times into the same dungeon to get the item you want in an actually good version instead of going into a dungeon 10 times to get the item at all? I'd rather have the item be rare and make a difference when you get it.

You're looking at this from the perspective of somebody who farmed M+ for pieces that supplement gear already (presumably) obtained through raiding. I'm looking at this from the perspective of somebody who gears my toons exclusively through M+. For the former group, this change is probably a good thing. For the latter (of which I'm a part), it's yet another hurdle to jump through to get toons to a respectable level of play. I'm an altoholic so this change severely neuters my desire to gear out alts (or really, even play them) which I find to be a pretty shitty decision on Blizzard's part. I get that I might represent a minority voice but change for the sake of changing shit isn't always the best way forward. Like I've said in my other posts, I fully expected a nerf to gear from M+ in SL... I just didn't expect it to be this massive.

[Malix Farwin]

The change was made to offset the removal of titanforging to get people to continue to spam M+ which is fine but i think its a bit too extreme of a change especially when the relics for soulbinds will likely also drop from M+.

Lets consider the following, When running a M+ dungeon in BFA:
You hope that you get something
You hope that it is something you need
You hope that it titanforges(or corrupts)
You hope that it sockets

Now i don't know if sockets procing is going away or not but i know titanforging is but i am going to run on the assumption that it is also going away.

The new Xpac you will statistically get 2 pieces of loot per 10 runs. So you have to hope those 2 pieces are what you want and/or not duplicates. Lets say in the absolute Best RNG in the world that you get every piece you wanted off your first roll. It would take you 140 runs(assuming one of your pieces is the leggo 150 otherwise of if dual wield spec) with perfect RNG to get the gear you need.

Now realistically speaking it will be filling missing pieces that is fine but the problem is time raising keys levels and farming at that level is also going to discourage ppl from running lower level keys and doing M+ for loot feeling more like busy work rather than rewarding.

Hardcore community will mostly run it for fun/score and casuals wont touch it. 10 runs is a lot for a casual and hardcore will just naturally out scale the gear from raids. Theres no exaggeration when i say this change could potentially kill M+ for no reason. With this Change M+ will feel pointless to do and if they are truthful about less loot drops from toher sources then LFR will feel mandatory again.

[Video Games]

The less sims i need to run, the better, It's really annoying at this point.

[Wuusah]

You're looking at this from the perspective of somebody who farmed M+ for pieces that supplement gear already (presumably) obtained through raiding. I'm looking at this from the perspective of somebody who gears my toons exclusively through M+. For the former group, this change is probably a good thing. For the latter (of which I'm a part), it's yet another hurdle to jump through to get toons to a respectable level of play. I'm an altoholic so this change severely neuters my desire to gear out alts (or really, even play them) which I find to be a pretty shitty decision on Blizzard's part. I get that I might represent a minority voice but change for the sake of changing shit isn't always the best way forward. Like I've said in my other posts, I fully expected a nerf to gear from M+ in SL... I just didn't expect it to be this massive.

It's NOT change for the sake of changing things...

[Trinkie]

Is that 1 piece of gear for the group or 1 piece of gear for the person? If it's per person then it's gonna be more loot though

[Relapses]

It's NOT change for the sake of changing things...

I'd encourage you to actually read my fucking post before responding in the future. Most specifically, the sentence right after that.

[Boricha]

I think it's going to hurt M+ participation. People saying that m+ was the best/fastest way to gear unnecessarily wasted a lot of their time if gearing was their main goal. Spamming m+ is highly inefficient compared to just doing the weekly run and clearing the raid. This will create even less reason to farm m+ or to push keys for anything other than r.io. score. It will also make things like armor stacking more desirable at lower levels of the game. It may also affect the world first race, as those guilds will be less incentivized to pause progression on a difficult boss for small gear upgrades in m+.

I assume they're worried about people getting bis too quickly without warforgning, but I think they should just let that go as it's only a small percentage of people that are going to work their way up to a +15 anyway. They should add a farmable currency to m+ to buy cosmetics or something in that vein instead. Nothing power related.

[Alcsaar]

In Legion and BfA you got 3 items per finished run, but you didn't really want that item. You wanted a warforged/titanforged version of it. So you got the item and then you went back into the same dungeon and did it again and again and again until you got your gg roll. With 8.3 they removed titanforging and replaced it with corruptions which were even more insane RNG bullshit.

In Shadowlands when you get an item you get an item. It's the best version of the item you can get from that source. In the end it's the same thing. Does it really make a difference if you go 10 times into the same dungeon to get the item you want in an actually good version instead of going into a dungeon 10 times to get the item at all? I'd rather have the item be rare and make a difference when you get it.

Except its not the same thing, because at least in BFA you could get a watered down version of the item that only performed slightly worse. In SL its all or nothing, which is effectively WAY WORSE.

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Is that 1 piece of gear for the group or 1 piece of gear for the person? If it's per person then it's gonna be more loot though

Its obviously 1 piece of loot for the entire run that only one person gets. Used to be 3 split between the group.

[Edward Wu]

Good. Fuck M+ and how much prevalence it had in the endgame in BfA. Raiding is much more fun and should be the most rewarding PvE content.

You're still going to up your chances of getting what you really want from the weekly chest by just running more M+ than others but this was a well-needed nerf.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Thank God.

If I want to run dungeons, I'll run dungeons. Once I've done so 50+ times per dungeon however, I'd rather stab myself with a fork than continue doing it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over... Yet that's what became expected of raiders in Legion and BfA.

Sucks for those only doing dungeons as their endgame though, for sure.

[chiddie]

It was already largely hinted at and is absolutely no surprise.

M+ simply was too efficient compared to any other game mode.
The only people who could pass on M+ as far as non weekly rewards are concerned are Mythic raiders and those usually spammed M+ during the first weeks of a new patch to grab more Heroic Ilvl gear.

A mode that has no lockout while also awarding equivalent loot is extremely problematic when every other loot source is lockout based.

It’s efficient if you are in a big guild, or if you are a tank or healer or if you have tons of free time to beg for a pug or upgrade your key.

Else is a total nightmare.

[Hctaz]

Yeah not sure about this one to be fair.

It both does and does not make a lot of sense to me in terms of what they're doing. My complaint with M+ was only in combination with the -forging system. Basically you would feel compelled as a mythic raider to farm M+ as much as possible in the hopes of getting some extra gear to boost your stats in between progression nights. Without a system like that in place (thank god) then it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to remove the ability to get a lot of gear from M+. Sure you might be able to boost somebody to like normal or heroic raid gear in a night of M+, but that doesn't really seem like too much of a problem to me. I never had an issue with other people getting easy gear, I just hated having to farm out lucky RNG gear rolls because mythic raid gear was sparse and it was easier to just farm dungeons all day hoping for an RNG upgrade LOL

[Kralljin]

It’s efficient if you are in a big guild, or if you are a tank or healer or if you have tons of free time to beg for a pug or upgrade your key.

Else is a total nightmare.

Any issue related to other people doesn't magically go away when you consider going for pug raids or even worse - PvP.

[Wakozi123]

If I remember correctly they said that they want to reduce the overall game's gear output. As such, it becomes more difficult to get good gear. I am going to assume that raids will become the primary way of gearing characters, as well as twinks. Although, doing M+ will probably overall still be the best way to get gear if you have a set group. Just trade the items among each other and spam dungeons one after the other (raids are locked so only once per ID)

[Wuusah]

Except its not the same thing, because at least in BFA you could get a watered down version of the item that only performed slightly worse. In SL its all or nothing, which is effectively WAY WORSE.

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Its obviously 1 piece of loot for the entire run that only one person gets. Used to be 3 split between the group.

And playing with watered down items is a good thing? If loot is to be exciting and fulfilling again then loot needs to be scarce.

I'd encourage you to actually read my fucking post before responding in the future. Most specifically, the sentence right after that.

I did read your whole comment. I don't know what you're talking about.

I think you guys are making this into a way bigger problem than it is. The weekly chest will give you an item of your choice (1 out of 3, iirc). So the chance to get absolute garbage out of your weekly chest will be close to none. On top of that there is crafting, legendary crafting, raiding, pvp. You're looking at this nerf in a vacuum and completely neglect that you're going to get great items from other sources with a lot of agency over what items you get.

Stop being drama queens.

[MrDaemon]

I'm curious about the engagement rates Mythic+ will have in Shadowlands. With no Titanforging or Corruption, no AP, what motivation do you have to keep running them after doing your weekly? I'm sure there are people that will run them just to push rankings and shit but they are the tiny minority. I'm scared they are going to kill their best system in years.

They already almost killed m+. Residuum is idiotic system (20k for item you want which is 10+ weeks or RNG it and if you get unlucky you have to wait). RNG corruptions is worse than titanforging. I have 4 chars I looted 1-2 items with right corruption since system was implemented.

Also after you reach 465 there is almost no reason to run it apart from weekly.

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And playing with watered down items is a good thing? If loot is to be exciting and fulfilling again then loot needs to be scarce.



I did read your whole comment. I don't know what you're talking about.

I think you guys are making this into a way bigger problem than it is. The weekly chest will give you an item of your choice (1 out of 3, iirc). So the chance to get absolute garbage out of your weekly chest will be close to none. On top of that there is crafting, legendary crafting, raiding, pvp. You're looking at this nerf in a vacuum and completely neglect that you're going to get great items from other sources with a lot of agency over what items you get.

Stop being drama queens.

You think they cant make system in a way where you get 3 garbage choices. You are so naive. Same as shadow priest, blizzard gave back Devouring Plague but its a joke spell which has almost no real use.

[Wuusah]

You think they cant make system in a way where you get 3 garbage choices. You are so naive. Same as shadow priest, blizzard gave back Devouring Plague but its a joke spell which has almost no real use.

I think the chance to get complete garbage gear in a "1 out of 3" choice is close to none, except for when you are already so well geared that only some few slots are left to get upgrades. And if you are so well geared then you don't care about M+ loot anymore anyway.

[Die]

Buying loot funnels will become more popular and expensive. People will assemble all leather or all plate teams and funnel loot to people in m+. If you want a cloth loot funnel than 4/5 would wear cloth. Because everyone is gonna buy funnels due to this change, it actually takes a lot of skill out of wow which is interesting.