[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Heathy]

the problem I have really is ppl speaking as if they crank out star citizens in their spare time, read this thread as if ppl have even the slightest inkling of what goes into making something like this.. has anyone tried to make a game like this before? I know some of this game is proprietary or at least new technology. unconstructive negativity is simply spouting shit like 'its a scam!' ok then, so is every single investment known to man, all scams until the actual thing you're investing in exists in its promised form. it has been known for a while now that this game is going to take an age to become something worth playing. I check the roadmap once or twice a month perhaps to see how its doing. at some point I expect there will be a game worth playing with friends, I know other ppl who have bought this game so if it works out it should be something to look forward to.

the ppl who like shitting on anything to be edgy or to make their lives feel a teeny bit less shit, those ppl simply don't know what they are talking about. but spend an inordinate amount of time ranting about a game they obviously have no intention of playing.

[KrayZ33]

the problem I have really is ppl speaking as if they crank out star citizens in their spare time, read this thread as if ppl have even the slightest inkling of what goes into making something like this.. has anyone tried to make a game like this before? I know some of this game is proprietary or at least new technology. unconstructive negativity is simply spouting shit like 'its a scam!' ok then, so is every single investment known to man, all scams until the actual thing you're investing in exists in its promised form. it has been known for a while now that this game is going to take an age to become something worth playing. I check the roadmap once or twice a month perhaps to see how its doing. at some point I expect there will be a game worth playing with friends, I know other ppl who have bought this game so if it works out it should be something to look forward to.

It's exactly *because* people know that these games can't be done like Roberts wants it to be.
Roberts is basically talking about the "visions" he has.... aaaand that's about it.

Crazy, deluded, not even close to reality.

Basically the Donald Trump of Game-Development. You'd think with that amount of money, they'd have a base game out by now that could be properly played or at least something that would even resemble such a thing. A working platform to play and add new stuff onto. He has started 1000 things and all of them are unfinished, even 7-8 years later. Do you think they will come all together in the end just like that?
Shouldn't his focus be on fulfilling the original promises before delaying the game with more "dreams and visions" for another 20 years ?

He has basically nothing to show for, just "talk" or... "noise"

Is it not ridiculous to you that after roughly 275.000.000$ they started asking for more money, before having anything to show for? like... a mission demo that actually works properly and isn't just a module
It's hard to scream "we've wasted all your moneeeey" any louder.

[Heathy]

and yet he does have some very experienced developers working on this thing, so, like it or not a game is being made, this is all i'm saying as bold as chris roberts vision for this game is, if its half as good as he wants it to be it would still be a better game than most of the other games in this specific genre.

[Rennadrel]

and yet he does have some very experienced developers working on this thing, so, like it or not a game is being made, this is all i'm saying as bold as chris roberts vision for this game is, if its half as good as he wants it to be it would still be a better game than most of the other games in this specific genre.

The bar in gaming isn't even that high anymore. Like, the PTU's current iteration has about as much content as Call of Duty and Battlefield have. It's only real competition as far as scope is actual good big budget and big scale studios like CD Projekt Red and Rockstar. Most of the AAA industry these days is fucking shit as far as quality, content and replayability of their games.

[Gorsameth]

the problem I have really is ppl speaking as if they crank out star citizens in their spare time, read this thread as if ppl have even the slightest inkling of what goes into making something like this.. has anyone tried to make a game like this before? I know some of this game is proprietary or at least new technology. unconstructive negativity is simply spouting shit like 'its a scam!' ok then, so is every single investment known to man, all scams until the actual thing you're investing in exists in its promised form. it has been known for a while now that this game is going to take an age to become something worth playing. I check the roadmap once or twice a month perhaps to see how its doing. at some point I expect there will be a game worth playing with friends, I know other ppl who have bought this game so if it works out it should be something to look forward to.

the ppl who like shitting on anything to be edgy or to make their lives feel a teeny bit less shit, those ppl simply don't know what they are talking about. but spend an inordinate amount of time ranting about a game they obviously have no intention of playing.

I have no doubt the developers mean well and are doing their best.
Its those above them, and Chris at the very top, who are the issue. They are the ones in control of things like scope. Who decide to 'waste' time integrating VOIP into a game that barely has its skeleton sorted and then having to throw away work repeatedly because something else changes that stops it all from working.
Its no the individual coders fault that Server Meshing still doesn't work. The problem is that they are being asked to do something no one else has ever done before (as far as I understand it) and that may well not even be technically possible with current technology.

[Rennadrel]

I have no doubt the developers mean well and are doing their best.
Its those above them, and Chris at the very top, who are the issue. They are the ones in control of things like scope. Who decide to 'waste' time integrating VOIP into a game that barely has its skeleton sorted and then having to throw away work repeatedly because something else changes that stops it all from working.
Its no the individual coders fault that Server Meshing still doesn't work. The problem is that they are being asked to do something no one else has ever done before (as far as I understand it) and that may well not even be technically possible with current technology.

That's why it's overly ambitious. Maybe it can be done, but I think the work required to getting it to function like they desire is far more substantial than people realize. If I had one criticism of the management to make that would be the most important, it's their lack of honesty when it comes to the difficulty of designing and integrating some of the server side features that the game needs to have in order for it to be persistent and seamless. I honestly don't think Server Meshing will be in until we are into 4.0.

[Majestic12]

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/s...roadmap-past-3

This practically summarizes what's been going on with the project for the past 7 months.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/s...roadmap-past-3

This practically summarizes what's been going on with the project for the past 7 months.

It doesn't really make sense to invest so much time into Theaters of War, pretty much a game of in itself, when CIG is already unable to push out the two other games they're working on, SQ42 and SC. Hell even SC development is struggling because apparently they're focusing everything on SQ42.

I guess their reasoning for justifying ToW was for short term publicity; "oh look at what you can do in Star Citizen! We have all this crazy action! It's like the battlefront 3 people imagined a decade ago with ground to space battles in a single match!".

[Aliven]

From this https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/article_29857

"But what next for Chris Roberts, the man who brought us the groundbreaking Wing Commander series? "I just want to see Freelancer out the door, and then I want to take some time to reassess everything. Taking three and a half to four years to build a massive title just seems like a huge amount of effort. There needs to be a better way to do it." "

Maybe next time guys he will figure this out

disclaimer: we can change Digital Anvil to CiG and the article would be accurate propably 20 years after :P

[kenn9530]

Examples please.



You seem to be inferring a lot from my single sentence. At no point did I make any mention of the completion state, argue that other games had more gameplay options or that is was not a game. Where did all of that come from?

Any battle royal game, any game that has focus on only one area like ship breaker, just because a game doesnt have all its mechanic implemented doesnt mean that there is not already enough inplace for it to be considered a game by itself.

Oh, yes. An MMO that can't even host 50 people in a stable manner, with only half of its mechanics put in and none of them in a complete manner would truly be considered a full game.

The game doesnt just host 50 ppl, it hosts all the AI in the whole stanton system and all the cities and space stations all on one server to push what a server is able to handle to the limits, then they know what a single server is able to do when the first version of server meshing begins.

SC is more of a game than many currently on the market, many games just have one gameplay loop and thats it, SC currently has several implemented, it makes no difference if they game is finished or not.

[Edge-]

Any battle royal game

How so? Those are, for the most part, feature complete. They aren't the scope of SC, but they're full games as advertised.

any game that has focus on only one area like ship breaker

Again, having a smaller scope doesn't mean it's "less of a game". By that arbitrarily nonsense definition there are no "real games" other than SC because no game challenges SC's intended scope.

And that's nonsense.

just because a game doesnt have all its mechanic implemented doesnt mean that there is not already enough inplace for it to be considered a game by itself.

It's an unfinished game still in need of a massive amount of work to get it close to what the feature is supposed to be.

[kenn9530]

How so? Those are, for the most part, feature complete. They aren't the scope of SC, but they're full games as advertised.



Again, having a smaller scope doesn't mean it's "less of a game". By that arbitrarily nonsense definition there are no "real games" other than SC because no game challenges SC's intended scope.

And that's nonsense.



It's an unfinished game still in need of a massive amount of work to get it close to what the feature is supposed to be.

The amount of features in a game are not dependant on it being a game or not, SC has more features in its current version than many released games so if they wanted SC would just need a bit of polish and could be a game now and just improve with more features down the line.

No game released is ever complete so it doesnt matter if there a features left to come it still as much a game as many others.

[Edge-]

The amount of features in a game are not dependant on it being a game or not

This is correct, it's based on what the scope of the game is and if they've delivered on that scope. For BR games, the scope is considerably smaller, for example.

SC has more features in its current version than many released games so if they wanted SC would just need a bit of polish and could be a game now and just improve with more features down the line.

I haven't followed all the specifics, but there are still some pretty big missing/incomplete features, no? Still plenty of issues when it comes to housing more than a few dozen people in a single area as servers have issues? Still only a fraction of the universe created that they've said would be available?

Because that's still, incomplete. Unless they specifically axe those features and greatly reduce the scope.

No game released is ever complete so it doesnt matter if there a features left to come it still as much a game as many others.

Stop it. Stop this bullshit lying. This is utter horse shit of the highest order and it's beyond frustrating that you keep slinging these baldface lies in some pathetic effort to defend SC against valid criticisms.

[kenn9530]

This is correct, it's based on what the scope of the game is and if they've delivered on that scope. For BR games, the scope is considerably smaller, for example.



I haven't followed all the specifics, but there are still some pretty big missing/incomplete features, no? Still plenty of issues when it comes to housing more than a few dozen people in a single area as servers have issues? Still only a fraction of the universe created that they've said would be available?

Because that's still, incomplete. Unless they specifically axe those features and greatly reduce the scope.



Stop it. Stop this bullshit lying. This is utter horse shit of the highest order and it's beyond frustrating that you keep slinging these baldface lies in some pathetic effort to defend SC against valid criticisms.

How is it a lie at least back it up with some evidence, there are many games that launched and were not complete, NMS, ED, Anthem and even WoW, name one recent game that doesnt get constant updates and new features, just because its released doesnt mean that game is complete.

No game is really ever complete so you should stop the BS when you know its reality.

[Edge-]

How is it a lie at least back it up with some evidence, there are many games that launched and were not complete, NMS, ED, Anthem and even WoW

WoW was complete. Beyond that...pretty much every non-online game around? I mean, you're assuming that no game ever has been launched as complete, but you have yet to qualify that assertion.

name one recent game that doesnt get constant updates and new features, just because its released doesnt mean that game is complete.

Just looking at recent releases...

Trails of Cold Steel III, Brigadine, Spongebob Battle for Bikini Bottom, TLOU2, P4 Golden, Ys Celceta, Xenoblade Chronicles, Maneater, Indivisible, Predator, Trails of Mana and I could go on for a long time.

Are they bug free and perfect? No. Are there post-launch plans for some? Absolutely. Are they incomplete at launch? No.

No game is really ever complete so you should stop the BS when you know its reality.

You're literally making shit up, and I'm gonna call you on it every bloody time. I've helped launch hundreds of games at this point in my career ranging from small 1-2 man indie affairs to pretty notable AAA titles, and the vast majority of them were indeed well and truly complete by the time they launched.

What's your gamedev experience? What are you basing your absolutely absurd beliefs off of?

[kenn9530]

WoW was complete. Beyond that...pretty much every non-online game around? I mean, you're assuming that no game ever has been launched as complete, but you have yet to qualify that assertion.



Just looking at recent releases...

Trails of Cold Steel III, Brigadine, Spongebob Battle for Bikini Bottom, TLOU2, P4 Golden, Ys Celceta, Xenoblade Chronicles, Maneater, Indivisible, Predator, Trails of Mana and I could go on for a long time.

Are they bug free and perfect? No. Are there post-launch plans for some? Absolutely. Are they incomplete at launch? No.



You're literally making shit up, and I'm gonna call you on it every bloody time. I've helped launch hundreds of games at this point in my career ranging from small 1-2 man indie affairs to pretty notable AAA titles, and the vast majority of them were indeed well and truly complete by the time they launched.

What's your gamedev experience? What are you basing your absolutely absurd beliefs off of?

WoW was not complete, missing battlegrounds, raids, dungeons, how is elite dangeous launch complete when it didnt have planets and other features, a game is never really launched complete as its always missing content and features that end up in the game eventually.

If a game still needs patches then its not complete is it, if you still have to add things to a game it is not complete you cant deny that fact. A game is always released in a suitable state and then constantly worked on until they decide to stop supporting it.

[Edge-]

WoW was not complete, missing battlegrounds, raids, dungeons

What dungeons, raids, and battlegrounds were intended for launch but were not included?

how is elite dangeous launch complete when it didnt have planets and other features

Were any of those supposed to be in the game when it launched?

a game is never really launched complete as its always missing content and features that end up in the game eventually.

Theoretically for online games, sure. But there's a difference between "incomplete" and "Launched complete with plans to add more". You're treating them as they same, and they're absolutely not.

If a game still needs patches then its not complete is it

This is 100% false, and an arbitrary definition you've created for yourself. This is not something that anyone in the industry would ever agree with.

if you still have to add things to a game it is not complete you cant deny that fact.

Again, wrong. If WoW or EQ2 launch an expansion pack and hit all the features/intended content, it's complete. If they add more content via patches after that, that in no way affects the fact that the expansion itself was complete when it was released and sold, it just means that they are adding more, which was planned, to the game after launch.

A game is always released in a suitable state and then constantly worked on until they decide to stop supporting it.

I see you've casually ignored all the other games I listed that have not had post-launch content updates, or even really much in the way of post-launch bugfixes, because they don't fit your argument.

That's because it's a terrible argument.

[Xeenith]

you got to admit that such stupidity take lots of dedication
I can't even facepalm hard enough every time I read Kenn's posts lol

[Elim Garak]

A complete game is a game that can be played from start to finish in a continuous experience if it's singleplayer or - it has at least one complete multiplayer mode with the core meta loop if it's multiplayer - both if it's both. That's a complete game. You can expand it later by adding more features, more content, and more modes - that fact doesn't make the initial game any less complete.

Also, the amount of features doesn't matter if said numerous features do not assemble into a complete game.

Developers always have a deadline from which they design the features (the scope to be done by that deadline), that deadline always (if they are smart) includes a buffer for delays (feature cuts). No one goes "oh we don't know how long it will take let's start the development and see how it goes" - that's just plain stupid - unless you are not restricted in budget and plan to suck the investors dry.

This is what we have with SC. Unrestricted budget and free fantasy land.

I would love to work on SC - I would be able to let my imagination flow and do the things I love doing with no deadlines to perfection and get paid for it. This is what all those professionals doing - earning lots of money doing what they love. They don't really care whether the game gets released as long as those paychecks are coming in and they love their job. And Chris lets that happen, I think he's the biggest driver behind the "no-deadline-fantasy-land because we have lots of money and can do whatever we want" - the dream job for any developer.

[Kyanion]

SC has more features in its current version than many released games so if they wanted SC would just need a bit of polish and could be a game now and just improve with more features down the line.

Haha here we go again. More features than many released games! Just ignore the fact that they are a buggy mess, not really fun, can't have 50 people playing and so on.

Just a bit of polish guys! It could be amazing IF THEY WANTED!
Source: Don't ask for sources plz!