Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Edge-]

Yeah, it's pretty bad. Stuff like this:


Unfortunately, we've also had a few stories where those altercations ended with someone dying. I'm reminded of the Family Dollar shooting that happened in Michigan back in May.

edit: found the link to that one.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ot/3078939001/

Man, I don't feel so bad about doing work calls from my room with my bed and shit in the background now. Though her room is nicer than mine.

But fucking seriously, can we take anyone that pulls a gun or attacks someone for asking that they wear a mask and throw them in a special jail where they can all go around maskless? Not jails we have now, those prisoners are already getting infected in massive numbers as the prison system absolutely fails them on every level and they don't deserve this.

But if your response to being asked to put on a mask is to pull out or brandish a weapon at another person you have no place in civilized society.

[Zan15]

71,750 cases yesterday man we just keep breaking records and our death count is back up in the 4 digits at 1001. 150k dead here we come.

Don't worry magically this will be below 50k now that reporting has been "upgraded"

- - - Updated - - -

Don't worry guys our kids will be fineeeeeeeeeeeeee. they won't spread Covid with fine upstanding parents like these!



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...coverings.html



Utah official is booed for canceling meeting about schoolchildren wearing masks when 100 pack the room WITHOUT face coverings

Utah County Commissioner Tanner Ainge was met with jeers from the crowd as he told attendees 'this is the exact opposite of what we need to be doing'



Parents and members of the public had gathered Wednesday to discuss their objections to a mask policy requiring children to wear face masks
Around 100 packed into the Provo meeting room without masks

Gov. Gary Herbert announced last week that all students in K-12 schools and on school buses must now wear masks

Some parents have claimed masks will 'rewire children's brains' and 'teach them to fear the world', and threatened to pull their kids out of school
Cases in Utah are surging, topping 30,891 cases and 233 deaths


Swarms of attendees - and the two commissioners besides Ainge - stayed in the meeting room for two hours despite its official adjournment to voice their outrage at the mask policy for schoolchildren.

[Masark]

threatened to pull their kids out of school

StopDon'tComeBack.mkv

[Zantos]

Some parents have claimed masks will 'rewire children's brains' and 'teach them to fear the world', and threatened to pull their kids out of school
Cases in Utah are surging, topping 30,891 cases and 233 deaths

Masks are why they are threatening to pull their kids out of school? Not the rising cases? That is some messed up priorities. I don't care what you think about masks. They aren't going to help in a school setting. Telling them to wear a mask is pointless when you're ignoring social distancing and sanitation.

[Edge-]

They aren't going to help in a school setting. Telling them to wear a mask is pointless when you're ignoring social distancing and sanitation.

Stop it. This remains untrue, and there remains considerable evidence that wearing masks helps reduce the chance of transmission, even in closer quarters.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Stop it. This remains untrue, and there remains considerable evidence that wearing masks helps reduce the chance of transmission, even in closer quarters.

I don't really want to side with nutters in Utah but, given that children generally have mild symptoms of Covid and fatalities are very rare, I'd say: don't ask them to do something hard and unpleasant that won't be of any benefit to them.

Yes, I'd object to my kids being compelled to wear a mask to attend school.

Shield if you need to shield, if not, don't.

[Unholyground]

I mean this does relieve the burden on old age pension for the USA, maybe that is why they are all being willfully ignorant, they will be able to pocket the billions of dollars and no one will even notice because of the news and bullshit.

[Edge-]

I don't really want to side with nutters in Utah but, given that children generally have mild symptoms of Covid and fatalities are very rare, I'd say: don't ask them to do something hard and unpleasant that won't be of any benefit to them.

Why risk longterm damage to your child just because of "mild symptoms"? There's increasing evidence that the virus wreaks havoc across the body and can lead to permanent, longterm medical issues and risks. Beyond that, there's still a lot of conflicting information on the severity and likelyhood of infection amongst children, varying by age group, and the risks of transmissions - https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/18/...-easy-answers/

Yes, I'd object to my kids being compelled to wear a mask to attend school.

May as well not take them in for vaccines either, then. Masks are a minimal ask and pose no risk to the overwhelming majority of children, and are an additional, minor, but effective safety precaution. You're literally putting your child and everyone they encounter at risk with such a nonsense position.

Shield if you need to shield, if not, don't.

Shield if you need a shield. Shield if you may need a shield. Shield if there's a tiny chance you need a shield. Because the shield is a fucking piece of cloth and there are no downsides to being cautious.

[JohnBrown1917]

I don't really want to side with nutters in Utah but, given that children generally have mild symptoms of Covid and fatalities are very rare, I'd say: don't ask them to do something hard and unpleasant that won't be of any benefit to them.

Yes, I'd object to my kids being compelled to wear a mask to attend school.

Shield if you need to shield, if not, don't.

Then continue online schooling if you cant prevent them from spreading to eachother and teachers.

[Zan15]

I mean this does relieve the burden on old age pension for the USA, maybe that is why they are all being willfully ignorant, they will be able to pocket the billions of dollars and no one will even notice because of the news and bullshit.

umm no it doesn't.

with 32 million people not working and no employment taxes being paid the biggest old age pension system will be insolvent quicker. Social Security money cannot be used for anything other than SS. Not sure whom "they" are and whom would "pocket the billions" when the system has a future shortfall of trillions.


As for private pensions, they too are underfunded. Same relative problem.

Also if someone dies your private pension does not automatically go into the companies pocket. Your spouse continues to collect your pension. Depending on pension Heirs can collect the cash balance. for Social Security your spouse and children can collect a vast % of your SS payments as well.
Worst case your money would end up back in the private pension account to pay off other pensions.

[Unholyground]

umm no it doesn't.

with 32 million people not working and no employment taxes being paid the biggest old age pension system will be insolvent quicker. Social Security money cannot be used for anything other than SS. Not sure whom "they" are and whom would "pocket the billions" when the system has a future shortfall of trillions.


As for private pensions, they too are underfunded. Same relative problem.

Also if someone dies your private pension does not automatically go into the companies pocket. Your spouse continues to collect your pension. Depending on pension Heirs can collect the cash balance. for Social Security your spouse and children can collect a vast % of your SS payments as well.
Worst case your money would end up back in the private pension account to pay off other pensions.

Well hot damn, at least there will be lots of real estate for cheap? I imagine there will be tons of homes no one will be able to sell which will drop the prices substantially.

[Zantos]

Stop it. This remains untrue, and there remains considerable evidence that wearing masks helps reduce the chance of transmission, even in closer quarters.

I never said it doesn't. However, all studies I have linked, and the CDC and WHO say you need to continue to practice social distance and proper sanitation while wearing a mask. No one recommends it as a replacement, nor as the only thing you do.

To simply put, shoving a bunch of people, indoors with nearly no ventilation, in close quarters, is going to make things far worse. If you have a study showing that a face mask will prevent transmission, or reduce it enough to make staying in those conditions safe for 8-10hrs a day, I want to see it. Every study I have linked has said that they are great for grocery shopping, While maintaining social distancing.

I wear a mask for nearly 8hrs a day at work. I am in a large area with plenty of space to social distance. Even with a mask mandate, anyone who might be sick is required to stay home. Most work places are like that. They all realize the same thing. Its risky to allow someone who is sick to be there. Masks or not. Its not a good idea.

Here is a good read about it.Several daycares saw spikes that tried to stay open for essential workers. Other schools in texas saw spikes. It also outlines how kids generally lack self discipline to wear a mask like that. It isn't a good idea.

[Zan15]

I don't really want to side with nutters in Utah but, given that children generally have mild symptoms of Covid and fatalities are very rare, I'd say: don't ask them to do something hard and unpleasant that won't be of any benefit to them.

Yes, I'd object to my kids being compelled to wear a mask to attend school.

Shield if you need to shield, if not, don't.

sigh.
the point of wearing a mask is not....oh never mind its only been told a billion times.

Please keep your kids home so all the other kids are safe from them.

[Zantos]

Then continue online schooling if you cant prevent them from spreading to eachother and teachers.

This should honestly be the answer right now no matter what. We should be looking at continuing and improving online schooling in this crisis. Not throwing them all back in a school

[Edge-]

I never said it doesn't. However, all studies I have linked, and the CDC and WHO say you need to continue to practice social distance and proper sanitation while wearing a mask. No one recommends it as a replacement, nor as the only thing you do.

The combination is most effective, yes. But each part of that equation - masks, social distancing, proper sanitation - are individually reduce the likelyhood of catching or spreading the virus. If you can only do 1 of those things, it's better than none, so telling people to wear masks even in close quarters is not at all "pointless" as you said.

To simply put, shoving a bunch of people, indoors with nearly no ventilation, in close quarters, is going to make things far worse. If you have a study showing that a face mask will prevent transmission, or reduce it enough to make staying in those conditions safe for 8-10hrs a day, I want to see it. Every study I have linked has said that they are great for grocery shopping, While maintaining social distancing.

You're correct, it's going to massively increase the opportunities for transmission. That being said, if it's required (and I sure as hell hope schools don't re-open under these circumstances), wearing a mask remains an effective measure to reduce that risk.

Here is a good read about it.Several daycares saw spikes that tried to stay open for essential workers. Other schools in texas saw spikes. It also outlines how kids generally lack self discipline to wear a mask like that. It isn't a good idea.

Again, I'm not arguing it's a cure-all or that kids will be super responsible about it. Never said that, never would.

However, your own link doesn't support your assertion -

Masks likely blunt spread at school, but children—even more than adults—find them uncomfortable to wear for hours and may lack the self-discipline to wear them without touching their faces or freeing their noses. Does discomfort override a potential public health benefit?

“For me, masks are part of the equation” for slowing the spread of COVID-19 in schools, especially when distancing is difficult, says Susan Coffin, an infectious disease physician at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. “Respiratory droplets are a major mode of [virus] transmission,” she says, and wearing a mask places an obstacle in those droplets’ path.

In China, South Korea, Japan, and Vietnam—where masks are already widely accepted and worn by many during flu season—schools require them for almost all students and their teachers. China allows students to remove masks only for lunch, when children are separated by glass or plastic partitions. Israel requires masks for children older than age 7 outside the classroom, and for children in fourth grade and above all day—and they comply, says Aflalo, who has 8- and 11-year-old boys. On the bus ride to school, “all the kids are sitting with masks on,” she says. “They don’t take them off. They listen to the orders.”

Elsewhere, masks are less central. In some schools in Germany, students wear them in hallways or bathrooms, but can remove them when seated at their (distantly spaced) desks. Austria reopened with this approach, but abandoned masks for students a few weeks later, when officials observed little spread within schools. In Canada, Denmark, Norway, the United Kingdom, and Sweden, mask wearing was optional for both students and staff.

Not all countries have the luxury of instituting a mask policy driven by science and comfort. Benin requires masks in public spaces, but because the cost can be prohibitive for families, schools do not turn maskless students away. Students in Ghana returned to school in May wearing masks—if they had them. South Africa, which faces a rising COVID-19 caseload, is racing to provide free masks to all students who need them.

For Aflalo, the potential value of masks was underscored after a record-setting heat wave struck Israel in mid-May. As temperatures rose to 40°C, masks became intolerable, and with the health ministry’s blessing, students and teachers largely put them aside for almost a week.

For 2 weeks—the typical COVID-19 incubation period—things seemed fine. Aflalo left to go camping in the desert with her family. But then, a crisis: While on vacation, “I started getting calls about the Gymnasium,” says Aflalo, referring to Gymnasium Rehavia, the school in Jerusalem with the large outbreak. Aflalo can’t say for sure that the outbreak was fueled by a lack of masks, but she believes the timing is suggestive.

And the article mostly indicates that given the wildly inconsistent policies between countries, and even within countries, relating to masks in school and the general lack of good quality data, that it's difficult to have solid conclusions and that erring on the side of caution (i.e. masking) is the best course of action.

[Zan15]

Well hot damn, at least there will be lots of real estate for cheap? I imagine there will be tons of homes no one will be able to sell which will drop the prices substantially.

actually right now you are seeing the opposite because of insanely low interest rates/mortgage rates below 3%. That and the drop in the number of new homes being built. Also a lot of huge markets are seeing a gigantic move from urban area's to the suburbs driving up prices quickly.

Its doing the opposite of what most people would think would happen in an economic crash.

But you have to remember the vast, and i mean vaaaaaaaaaaast majority of people whom are the most seriously effected by this economic disaster are those whom most likely Rent not own a home.

Once the 600 dollar unemployment bonus ends you are going to see a major problem in the rental market.

Then a delayed move in the housing market a few months after that if unemployment keeps up at the current pace or the administration does not get round #5 out the door on economic freebies to individuals.



@Rasulis can tell you more about the insane real estate market right now. we've talked about it a bunch of times in other market thread.

[Unholyground]

actually right now you are seeing the opposite because of insanely low interest rates/mortgage rates below 3%. That and the drop in the number of new homes being built. Also a lot of huge markets are seeing a gigantic move from urban area's to the suburbs driving up prices quickly.

Its doing the opposite of what most people would think would happen in an economic crash.

But you have to remember the vast, and i mean vaaaaaaaaaaast majority of people whom are the most seriously effected by this economic disaster are those whom most likely Rent not own a home.

Once the 600 dollar unemployment bonus ends you are going to see a major problem in the rental market.

Then a delayed move in the housing market a few months after that if unemployment keeps up at the current pace or the administration does not get round #5 out the door on economic freebies to individuals.



@Rasulis can tell you more about the insane real estate market right now. we've talked about it a bunch of times in other market thread.

That sounds rough, I am glad I am a home owner though I can tell you that much. In Canada we were all allowed to deffer our payments for a few months which was super helpful for many.

[LeGin Tufnel]

Why risk longterm damage to your child just because of "mild symptoms"? There's increasing evidence that the virus wreaks havoc across the body and can lead to permanent, longterm medical issues and risks. Beyond that, there's still a lot of conflicting information on the severity and likelyhood of infection amongst children, varying by age group, and the risks of transmissions - https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/18/...-easy-answers/

I read the linked article.

The article says, and I quote:

There is some evidence that kids are less likely to catch the virus and less likely to spread it

But if they play a less active role, as studies seem to suggest, then the high cost of these restrictions — interrupted education and socialization, stress as parents juggle working from home with child care, lack of access to school meals — aren’t warranted by the small benefits gained.

One thing that is clear is that the disease is generally far less severe for children than it can be for older adults. Deaths among children have been few and the percentage of children who need hospitalization for the illness is substantially lower than it is among adults.

Nowhere in the article does it state anything that supports what you wrote.

May as well not take them in for vaccines either, then.

That is utterly ridiculous and I expect much better from you.

Shield if you need a shield. Shield if you may need a shield. Shield if there's a tiny chance you need a shield. Because the shield is a fucking piece of cloth and there are no downsides to being cautious.

Have you actually worn a mask for 8 hours straight? Do you have young kids? If you can respond yes to both of those, I’ll take what you have to say seriously, if not, I won’t.

[Zan15]

That sounds rough, I am glad I am a home owner though I can tell you that much. In Canada we were all allowed to deffer our payments for a few months which was super helpful for many.

i would say it would be hard to find any mortgage company that is not allowing deferrals right now in the united states.

of course you have to pay it all eventually

[Granyala]

I don't really want to side with nutters in Utah but, given that children generally have mild symptoms of Covid and fatalities are very rare, I'd say: don't ask them to do something hard and unpleasant that won't be of any benefit to them.

Yes, I'd object to my kids being compelled to wear a mask to attend school.

Yo and then kiddie comes home from school and hugs mommy & daddy and maybe even Granny and Gramps .....