List other RPG games with irreversible Gameplay Customization like Covenants

[Big Thanks]

Im talking "mid-game" customization options.
You play for 10 hours, the game asks you to make a "gameplay customization" choice and if you want to try the other choices you need to create a new save file.

If you dont agree "creating a new save file" is a fair comparison, then show a game that is incredibly TAXING to change customization options.

NOT talking about a "class" and start of game character decisions like the new remake of Trials of Mana where you need to pick your party at the start of the game and need to create a new save file to experience other stories.

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Ion Hazzikostas repeatedly tells us the covenant system is more "RPG"...................but i never in my life played an RPG game with irreversible customization options

Educate me to what great RPGs i've missed

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Lastly i wanted to say I DONT have an agenda against the covenant system
I genuinly dont care.

Im just confused by the RPG argument Ion spams on every interview because i dont know any game with this system

I agree it sounds very RPG-like though

[Gaidax]

U wotm8?

Every game that allows you to multiclass into something that comes with wings and shit, which makes it pretty much ever D&D based game where you can for example become Dragon Disciple with all the visual changes attached down the road.

You can't make that choice at the beginning, you have to make that choice mid-way and it's irreversible.

[SoulSoBreezy]

Fire Emblem. Maybe fallout off the top of my head.
Oh Tactics Ogre and Ogre Battle, the nostalgia is starting to leak

[Jastall]

Your Specialization(s) in the Dragon Age series.

Any and all multi/dual classing shenanigans in Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale.

Your prestige class in Mass Effect 1.

For that matter, prestige classes in D&D from 3rd Edition onwards, and related games such as Neverwinter Nights.

Your Jedi class in KOTOR and Master Jedi/Sith class in KOTOR 2.

Ascendencies in Path of Exile.

Variable promotions in some Fire Emblem games.

There's probably others I forget or haven't got to yet, but the concept is hardly unheard of, and most of the time these RPGs don't allow you to respec like Covenants do, albeit most are also single player so you can conceivably reload a save if you aren't satisfied. And the concept of mutually exclusive upgrades extends far, far beyond the RPG genre as well.

[rhorle]

A lot of "classical" RPG games didn't offer respecs. So late game you were stuck with whatever choices you made along the way. Knights of the Old republic and anything else that had Story choices. Mass Effect is another one but the eventually gave you a tool to change some stuff for third game if you wanted to use a "imported default" save.

[Big Thanks]

Fire Emblem. Maybe fallout off the top of my head.
Oh Tactics Ogre and Ogre Battle, the nostalgia is starting to leak

Oh i remember Fire Emblem now!
I played it as a kid.

I remember if my units died...they would die forever!

Thats insane!

I barely remember something about "evolving" into another class.
It was permanent? Must have been.

[Echocho]

It's not irreversible in WoW though. You can change every two weeks currently.

List the number of RPGs that lets you respec everything every 5 minutes without even going back to town.

[Belloc]

Educate me to what great RPGs i've missed

The original RPG: Dungeons and Dragons.

[Big Thanks]

It's not irreversible in WoW though. You can change every two weeks currently.

List the number of RPGs that lets you respec everything every 5 minutes without even going back to town.

The most recent Dragon Quest (if im not mistaken) i remember i messed up like 10 times my "trees"...and was free to respec at any given time
Wait...i think u need to be on a save point to do it though.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

What it boils down to is if you like having to start over to continue on a different path its a great idea. If you like to not have to start over to continue on that different path it sucks. Tell me.. how many times have to decided in WoW to not play a character anymore because of a choice you made and if that was great game design. Probably isn't many on peoples list. But shills got to shill. Ignorance got to ignore. Everyone will get it fixed in the first patch or two when subs start to tank and the realize.. yet again.. that it is stupid to do things like this.

[Steelcryo]

There are an absolute load of RPG's that have consequential choices that you can't undo. Even the most popular "mainstream" ones have some pretty easy to remember ones off the top of my head. Skyrim - Arguably the most accessible and well known RPG (not saying it's the best) has which faction to choose and whether to kill Parthurnax, as well as a load of other smaller ones, like who to tell Camilla sent the nasty letter. Fallout has a bunch, one has the choice to blow up a whole town if you want.

The only thing I can think of that lead you to post this thread is that you've never played an RPG before.

[Big Thanks]

The original RPG: Dungeons and Dragons.

We need to go back to the year 1900 to save the mmorpg genre of WoW!

- - - Updated - - -

There are an absolute load of RPG's that have consequential choices that you can't undo. Even the most popular "mainstream" ones have some pretty easy to remember ones off the top of my head. Skyrim - Arguably the most accessible and well known RPG (not saying it's the best) has which faction to choose and whether to kill Parthurnax, as well as a load of other smaller ones, like who to tell Camilla sent the nasty letter. Fallout has a bunch, one has the choice to blow up a whole town if you want.

The only thing I can think of that lead you to post this thread is that you've never played an RPG before.

Im 30y old but i was not into RPGs in my infancy...this games seem to be very old (>_<)
I played Fire Emblem though

edit: you can change factions in skyrim

[Kathranis]

The concept of re-anything is relatively new to RPGs. Historically choices were irreversible and had major impact. Even permadeath was a staple of D&D, to say nothing of how you built your character or the choices you made.

[Trend]

I don't get it. Not the fact that other people have preferences different than mine, but the willful ignorance of how WoW itself has departed from its roots in this regard. And to pretend that it is absurd to think choices in a RPG should be meaningful is, well, absurd. When the game was young you made choices on an ongoing basis for how to spend your talent points and for all practical intents you were stuck with your choices with limited recourse. The game moved toward a model in which no decision means anything for more than 5 minutes and people lose their minds as if they cannot comprehend anything different.

[Big Thanks]

The game moved toward a model in which no decision means anything for more than 5 minutes and people lose their minds as if they cannot comprehend anything different.

I think is unfair to ask to change before every pull.

But is also unfair (imo) to create an heavy tax on my curiosity of "gameplay customizations"

Im playing a game...im asked to pick between:

Fireball
Shadowbolt
Death Tentacle
Exploding Mechanical Sheep
Fire Breath
Dragon Kick

I pick the fireball...after 5 hours playing with the fireball...ofcourse im going to start asking myself WHAT IF i picked the Dragon Kick?
How is the Dragon Kick?
Wait a minute...Death Tentacle? That sounds...possibly cooler.

Isnt this how a normal person thinks?

[Razion]

Fable and Star Wars historically across their series have had light and dark alignment systems which to some extent could lock you out of routes in exchange for unique powers or unique story. Infamous also comes to mind.

[Hyeonh]

Mabinogi and Vindictus has the paladin and dark knight system, the change to the character is irreversible and impacts your character.

[Omedon]

The concept of re-anything is relatively new to RPGs. Historically choices were irreversible and had major impact. Even permadeath was a staple of D&D, to say nothing of how you built your character or the choices you made.

Funny story about that: Even the permanence of death and choices in D&D is malleable from table to table. In a game where the first rule is "these books are guidelines," house rules often over-ride "hardline" D&D rules. My game of 5 years running now wouldn't exist if I insisted on permadeath and no re-writing of character sheets as we learned the game better. In order to entice the players I have into a comfort zone, for them to trust me I needed to trust them: No permadeath, but no exploiting a lack of permadeath. We've been running blissfully for 5 years and counting!

[Echocho]

I pick the fireball...after 5 hours playing with the fireball...ofcourse im going to start asking myself WHAT IF i picked the Dragon Kick?
How is the Dragon Kick?
Wait a minute...Death Tentacle? That sounds...possibly cooler.

Isnt this how a normal person thinks?

I believe so. But in that case maybe the problem is that 2 weeks is too long to regain the favor of a covenant you've left and we should provide Blizzard with that feedback, maybe get it down to a couple of days or something?
The number of RPGs that allow you to respec freely out in the field are incredibly small, more often than not it involves some hoops to jump through or the very least going back through town and spending 15 minutes setting everything up.

[beanman12345]

I'm playing dragon age inquisition right now on my other screen as I type this, and this game describes what you are asking. You pick your specialization about 10-15 hours in, and then your locked forever with that character. You can change your point allocation, but your spec can't be changed.

edit - I want to add that I think it's a really stupid thing to add to wow, because wow is a game that is constantly balance changed and tuned regularly especially after launch so you can pick the right covenant and who's to say next day you could be screwed. not so much an issue with single player games.