Preach Interview with Ion Hazzikostas

[ClassicPeon]

Snip

I called your behavior childish because you got pissy at Blizzard for not making the changes you wanted them to make. That IS childish.

I'm not a musician so i wont pretend to know the ins and outs of that indistry. But having a 15 year career in music and refusing to take any feedback seems stupid as fuck no matter what profession you are in.

Like objectively that just doesnt seem constructive.

Every single time you go up on stage and play you are asking for feedback.

[bowlink]

i play world of warcraft like a freaking Single player RPG. i don't give 2 shits on which covant is best for me, as soon as i have the complete covanant armour set for that armour class im gonna gonna get another set on an alt.

but even i know as of right now the devs won't be able to balance those covanant class spells not the mention those covonant utility spells. hmm what am i gonna pick a usefull teleport or some use owl creature that hand me a potion to make me walk faster.

the devs haven't been able to balance the classes in the last 15 years
the devs haven't been able to balance the faction numbers in the last 10 years
the devs haven't been able to release a rented power system that wasn't incomplete and/or broken at launch in the last 4 years

what makes you think they can balance 12 classes, 36 specs, 4 covanants, 3 soulbind per covaants. thats already 432 unique combinations without the conduits, that i might add get destroyed when you respec said soulbinds.

i want to reitterate again i don't give a flying F About what covonant is best for my class, what i do care about is the devs having to waste resources fixing a problem they them selves made because their to busy smelling their own farts or the farts of whatever corperate A-hole came up with this idead from some some Excel Spreadsheet.

this the last i will say on the matter untill all this comes to a head in about 4 to 5 months, and everyone who has been warning the devs and you nay sayers about this blatantly obvious problem, can all say:

WE F-ING TOLD YOU SO YOU BLIND HACKS, WE HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU FOR LITTERAL MONTHS, DID YOU LISTEN? NOOOOOOO! LIKE THE LAST TWO TIMES

[Bigbazz]

I called your behavior childish because you got pissy at Blizzard for not making the changes you wanted them to make. That IS childish.

I'm not a musician so i wont pretend to know the ins and outs of that indistry. But having a 15 year career in music and refusing to take any feedback seems stupid as fuck no matter what profession you are in.

Like objectively that just doesnt seem constructive.

Every single time you go up on stage and play you are asking for feedback.

But you're twisting the use of the term feedback here. We're talking about it as it compares to game development, nobody has feedback on how you write your music. The producer? sure, the other members involved sure, but they are part of the creative process. Outside people don't get to listen to your pre-production ideas, they don't get to comment or give their 2cent on it.. You write some music, you go in and you record it and then you put it out into the world and they either like it or they don't, when it's finished it's finished.

Game development is different, hundreds of people could be working on the product and some of them might be there at the start and gone 3 months later, some people might have only done a handful of things. No one person or small group of people is entirely responsible for the product and the product isn't (at least in 2020) "done" when it gets released. A game is released, it gets iterated on based on feedback, that's because it's an interactive entertainment service.

It's so much different to music. So when I say nobody gives feedback, I'm saying nobody outside has any input on the creative process in music. Sure people have feedback when you play a show, good or bad you take things into account.. But that's entirely different to creating music, since a live performance is simply a performance of a written piece of music (at least in this context), a completed product.

[Valdhammer]

Ion has a lot of repressed nerd rage. It’s a good thing he’s only in charge of a video game.

[Ibbi]

This covenant system seems more and more ridiculous the more I learn about it. Am I playing at Hogwarts? The covenants sound like I'm choosing Hufflepuff or Gryffindor. And having major abilities/spells tied to it? That is a balancing nightmare.

[kevincuomo]

Can't wait to level my Covenant only to have Blizzard change everything around a month in and completely cuck me hard.

[Fkiolaris]

I dont mind constructing it for you:

Making gold in vanilla wow requires a time envestment.
Because gold comes from farming
Because farming takes time
Gold requires a time investment

Respecing in classic is a more permanent descision then it is in retail
Because gold requires a time investment in classic
Because it only requires a rested area(or a tome) in retail
Because a much longer time investment makes something more permanent then a much shorter time investment
Respecing in classic is a more permanent descision then in retail

How is this being childish again?

Because you are stretching in whichever way you can to present something as permanent when it's not. Covenants from all Blizzard has said themselves, are going to be very difficult if not practically impossible for casuals to get back to if you get out of one. In classic, I can go right now on my main and change in and out of the same spec about 5 times within seconds as a casual that only does instanced pvp, aka no gold farming and relatively poor. There is no way or even intention from Blizzard to let you to do that with Covenants, which is why your argument is ridiculous.

[ClassicPeon]

But you're twisting the use of the term feedback here. We're talking about it as it compares to game development, nobody has feedback on how you write your music. The producer? sure, the other members involved sure, but they are part of the creative process. Outside people don't get to listen to your pre-production ideas, they don't get to comment or give their 2cent on it.. You write some music, you go in and you record it and then you put it out into the world and they either like it or they don't, when it's finished it's finished.

Game development is different, hundreds of people could be working on the product and some of them might be there at the start and gone 3 months later, some people might have only done a handful of things. No one person or small group of people is entirely responsible for the product and the product isn't (at least in 2020) "done" when it gets released. A game is released, it gets iterated on based on feedback, that's because it's an interactive entertainment service.

It's so much different to music. So when I say nobody gives feedback, I'm saying nobody outside has any input on the creative process in music. Sure people have feedback when you play a show, good or bad you take things into account.. But that's entirely different to creating music, since a live performance is simply a performance of a written piece of music (at least in this context), a completed product.

We dont give feedback to blizzard on how they write their code or how their work enviroment is either.

We give feedback on what we get, the game. Just like you get feedback on your music when performing.

Its not different

- - - Updated - - -

Because you are stretching in whichever way you can to present something as permanent when it's not. Covenants from all Blizzard has said themselves, are going to be very difficult if not practically impossible for casuals to get back to if you get out of one. In classic, I can go right now on my main and change in and out of the same spec about 5 times within seconds as a casual that only does instanced pvp, aka no gold farming and relatively poor. There is no way or even intention from Blizzard to let you to do that with Covenants, which is why your argument is ridiculous.

You are changing the subject now. The subject was between classic respec'ing and retail respec'ing.

You where presented with an argument and you havent disputed it. Free win

[Azerate]

Good discussion and both of them make some valid points. I tend to lean to the side of Ion though. I can understand the logic he presents, and while maybe it creates some problems for a subset of people, he is also right that once you make covenants almost permanent choice, people probably won't be getting declined from groups based on that. Once you make it freely switchable, it fully becomes part of the metagame, at which point you either have the correct one, or no pug invites ever.

[Terracresta]

Amazing how many people are throwing percentages around to support their points but don't offer any real data as proof. Why do I think that they are pulling percentages out of their arses?

Another BS is claiming that not being vocal means not caring or being happy with the state of something. Again something pulled out of their arses without actual proof...

[Kralljin]

he is also right that once you make covenants almost permanent choice, people probably won't be getting declined from groups based on that.

If the delta is big enough, people will decline you regardless.

Like, that's the crux that so many people miss: If they're balanced, then it's not going to be a massive problem.
Thing is, people can already see that they're not going to be balanced.

Preach brought up there very valid point: Some Covenant abilities are dead buttons in certain situations, how are those supposed to be balanced against very powerful AoE abilities?

Like, i'm not forced to invite "that mage" and then tell them what to do, i can just decline them and invite the one who made the correct choice.

People also got declined for playing a certain class and you can't change that by pressing a button.

[ClassicPeon]

If the delta is big enough, people will decline you regardless.

Like, that's the crux that so many people miss: If they're balanced, then it's not going to be a massive problem.
Thing is, people can already see that they're not going to be balanced.

Preach brought up there very valid point: Some Covenant abilities are dead buttons in certain situations, how are those supposed to be balanced against very powerful AoE abilities?

Like, i'm not forced to invite "that mage" and then tell them what to do, i can just decline them and invite the one who made the correct choice.

People also got declined for playing a certain class and you can't change that by pressing a button.

And Watcher refuted that by saying some of them still required massive reworks and that balancing is the last thing they do.

Did you conveniently miss this?

[Kralljin]

Did you conveniently miss this?

Because Blizzards trackrecord on balance of these systems has been that amazing?
A company that has not placed a great priority on balance during Beta now suddenly tells me "we'll try this time!".

Their latest system on that front was the corruption system, which is a top contender for the spot of "most broken system" in WoW.

So no, i do not trust in their ability to complete this challenge when they previously already failed on much easier challenges.

[ClassicPeon]

Because Blizzards trackrecord on balance of these systems has been that amazing?
A company that has not placed a great priority on balance during Beta now suddenly tells me "we'll try this time!".

Their latest system on that front was the corruption system, which is a top contender for the spot of "most broken system" in WoW.

So no, i do not trust in their ability to complete this challenge when they previously already failed on much easier challenges.

Thats fine but thats not really what this discussion is about though. I mean i get why you want to change subject but

[Kralljin]

I mean i get why you want to change subject but

What?
Their ability to balance these things is very much a part of this discussion and the history of the team does not work in their favor.

I even said: *IF* they're balanced, it's not going to be a big issue.

[Fkiolaris]

You are changing the subject now. The subject was between classic respec'ing and retail respec'ing.

You where presented with an argument and you havent disputed it. Free win

And you just verified that you are a troll. The original post I replied to mentioned that the direction with Covenants reminding of Classic, which is the frame of my question "what was permanent in classic other than race and class?". You jumped straight in like a good apologist to try and redefine the context to fit your narrative and have been talking nonsense since then. Apparently that makes it a win though, I am half tempted to see what you define as a loss but I have better ways to waste my time.

What?
Their ability to balance these things is very much a part of this discussion and the history of the team does not work in their favor.

I even said: *IF* they're balanced, it's not going to be a big issue.

I am pretty sure we are being trolled mate

[ClassicPeon]

And you just verified that you are a troll. The original post I replied to mentioned that the direction with Covenants reminding of Classic, which is the frame of my question "what was permanent in classic other than race and class?". You jumped straight in like a good apologist to try and redefine the context to fit your narrative and have been talking nonsense since then. Apparently that makes it a win though, I am half tempted to see what you define as a loss but I have better ways to waste my time.



I am pretty sure we are being trolled mate

I dont care about your original post i care about the post i respnded too.

There is no point discussing with you aif you are gonna start crying like a little girl though

- - - Updated - - -

What?
Their ability to balance these things is very much a part of this discussion and the history of the team does not work in their favor.

I even said: *IF* they're balanced, it's not going to be a big issue.

Their ability to balance things being... shall we say shaky is the only grounds Preach has to stand on and its a valid ground. But what i was discussing was classic respec'ing vs retail respecing

[Zarvel]

It seems like preach really just wants to go FPS style for characters. Every DK is a DK they all work the same they all have the same stuff and no differences at all. I can sort of see that at the highest level play the desire for that but that seems like if they got what they actually seem to want it would make a boring game.

So, let me get this straight - are you implying the game was "boring" for about 12-13 years all the way until legion? It was boring during the times it hit 13 million subs and maintained 10 million?
Hate to break it to you, but the game was plain and simple with little to no RNG when it came to gear and class/spec gameplay up until legion, and people loved it. The feeling of dissatisfaction only started setting in from legion when RNG in the game hit a new level and just continued on from there.
Now if you're the type of player who considers stacking rank 6-7 Infinite stars for every boss and playing the lottery and hoping for quick procs, then, yea, sure, current RNG based gameplay is great in your eyes.
To players like me, taking the agency out of my hands and putting it into a proc that out performs other choices by 60-70% on single target DPS, is plain awful design.
But hey, I guess that's just my opinion.

[Kralljin]

But what i was discussing was classic respec'ing vs retail respecing

And i didn't.

Like, read the post from me you've originally replied to, not a speck of classic in there.

[Bisque]

I am on the side with Ion, there should be choice, there should not be a "best at everything spec". But that being said if the balancing of covenants do fail then they are open to making changes, it did not seem like Ion was "iron-willed" about it. I would rather blizzard launches SL with covenants the way they are, choices matter, consequence of your choice etc... and hopefully they will be able to balance and tweak as needed if we do start to see "LFM must have Venthry ability". Yes in the end maybe blizz falls flat on their face and balancing everything to do with covenants will fail- but I would rather give blizzard the ability to try first.