List other RPG games with irreversible Gameplay Customization like Covenants

[Big Thanks]

and OP has ignored every single one.

You are lying.

Ive answered this already.

The "ad nauseum" argument "but covenants are reversible"....they are incredibly taxing...to the point of even being "fair" to compare creating a new game file to try the other options.

[Lumineus]

The original RPG: Dungeons and Dragons.

I don't think this is a fair comparison because in DnD you can play any class as any race, make your armor look however you want (within your ability to create artwork, anyway), and you can build your character the way you want the first time. Your abilities won't be nerfed mid-campaign unless your DM is a dick, and there isn't any time attack crap like boss berserk or mythic keystones that will get your character booted from the party for inefficient use of skill points.

[facefist]

So when you made THIS comment recently, you were mistaken?

"I play" is not an exclusive term though. I mean if you ask someone what his hobby is and he says "I play ice hockey", does it automatically mean he has never played football? Neither does me saying that "I play only classic" mean that I never have played retail, so I really don't understand what you are about

This is you - you made this comment. Combine that with the fact you have only ever posts like 3 times on the classic forum, and it was about TBC, and 95% of your posts are in the SL sub forum, it would appear you are making shit up.

See above - 15 seconds of "research" shows they are just attempting to "troll", or got caught being wrong and panicked.

I think you just got caught making shit up. 15 seconds of "research" where you went through my 200 post post history to say with such precision that I have only 3 posts in classic forum? Yeah. Either the 15 seconds is a blatant lie so you wouldn't seem like a dude who is willing to put the effort of reading someones post history for the sake of argument, or then you just randomly claim something about my post history.

"Combine with the fact", oh god. Anyone who actually scrolls through it can see there are dozens of posts on classic forum, guess facts work differently in the country you are living in.

[Big Thanks]

List other RPG games that have been as successful as WoW has been - although a handful of ppl on forums always scream bloody murder and the end of the world for any system incorporated.

In fact...I think some of the games who tried to listen closely to those people (Rift, Wildstar) are now as dead as the Dodo.

Been thinking about the Covenant debate (how could you not) and I am glad that WoW continues to try different stuff (although I admit those systems upon systems now look very confusing for somebody who isn't in the alpha to try it out)

Hello det...nice seeing you.

I made the thread because i swear to God i didnt remember any RPG ive played my entire life to have this, what Ion calls, the "core" of the RPG genre.
To be fair...i mostly only played a lot of JRPGs.

It seems this "core" element comes mostly from european or american rpgs.
Maybe because of inspiration from D&D.

[Echocho]

You will lose progression everytime you switch

Another lie. Covenant progress is saved so when you come back you pick up exactly where you left off.

[rhorle]

Blizzard SPAMMED in the interviews. "We dont want you to keep switching covenants and we will make sure your life will be miserable and you will go to HELL if you switch covenants (we will also kill your dog and/or cat)"

People say that because of comments like yours. You don't need to fabricate the truth just so it better fits your rant. Blizzard has said that you shouldn't be constantly switching covenants. They haven't outlined the exact cost but have stated that a two week waiting period over a long hard grind is more likely in past interviews/news. It isn't supposed to be a burden to switch but it is supposed to be just annoying enough that you can't do it for encounter/raid/moment.

Also what else will you be doing while playing the expansion? Much of the "Farming" for covenants will likely be passive like Artifact and Azerite was. So you get it for doing other stuff. If you constantly switch covenants every week/time-period then you already know you are insane enough to keep farming and doing whatever it takes. That seems to be a division you don't want to accept.

The insane players will do what you say but will do it regardless of the cost because they perceive some benefit.

[Big Thanks]

Another lie. Covenant progress is saved so when you come back you pick up exactly where you left off.

Sauce?

I heard something about that...for the first time you switch.

In the recent official wow annoucement it was explained there will be "catchup mechanisms since day 1" when you switch.
Which is nice.

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Another lie. Covenant progress is saved so when you come back you pick up exactly where you left off.

You seem to be right, after some exploring in WoWhead

How to Change your Covenant
It has been confirmed that it will be possible to change Covenants if you find you dislike the one that you've chosen. Leaving one Covenant to join another will not be a difficult process; however, re-joining a previously abandoned Covenant will be harder, as you will have more to prove that you deserve to return. This may take the form of a hard time limit rather than an arduous grind (two weeks was mentioned in one interview) before you can swap to a previously-abandoned Covenant.

Blizzard discussed how the Azerite Armor system's increasing costs to switch didn't dissuade Hardcore players from making constant switches. This Covenant switch system is being designed to make it a much more monumental choice and make switching around disadvantageous.

However, your progress with that Covenant, including Sanctum upgrades you may have made while you were a member of that Covenant, will be preserved.

I failed to realize this, im sorry

[arkanon]

"I play" is not an exclusive term though. I mean if you ask someone what his hobby is and he says "I play ice hockey", does it automatically mean he has never played football? Neither does me saying that "I play only classic" mean that I never have played retail, so I really don't understand what you are about

I have shown, without a doubt, that you lied. You are on the SL forum, talking about SL, and claimed that you cannot change specs without going to a city. Context matters. In the post i quoted, you claimed to be in a "top 50" mythic raid guild - and yet you were unaware you could change specs whenever you wanted? So, are you being dishonest about being a "top 50" mythic raider, or, are you genuinely unaware you can change spec when you like?

See how you spent your entire reply diverting from the topic at hand, and rather than argue the point raised in my post, you spent the entire time focused in on how many posts you have, how long it must have taken me to find these posts, whether my math was correct that out of 200 posts, 95% were in retail, not classic.

You are a retail player, you made a stupid statement, and you got well and truly called out on it. Its over - you tried something, and failed - nothing to be ashamed of. Im busy laughing at your "top 50" claim though, considering you claim to only play each expansion causally, i would argue you are not a core part of any top 50 mythic guild, and simply get carried by a friends guild when its on farm - i mean shit, you didnt even know you could respec whenever you wanted, which is strange for someone in a top 50 mythic guild who has played every single expansion.

Its almost like, you just make shit up and hope no one points out all the inconsistencies in your claims.....

[Echocho]

Sauce?

I heard something about that...for the first time you switch.

In the recent official wow annoucement it was explained there will be "catchup mechanisms since day 1" when you switch.
Which is nice.

- - - Updated - - -



You seem to be right, after some exploring in WoWhead



I failed to realize this, im sorry

https://youtu.be/fMQjUIo5wBc?t=1822
There you go. Feel free to ignore it, I'm sure you will.

[arkanon]

Sauce?

I heard something about that...for the first time you switch.
In the recent official wow annoucement it was explained there will be "catchup mechanisms since day 1" when you switch.
Which is nice.
You seem to be right, after some exploring in WoWhead
I failed to realize this, im sorry

Next time, maybe do the research before being outraged? You claim not to be bothered by this system, and yet this isnt the first thread you have started on the topic, its just that your last one was closed. Maybe, instead of spending time making multiple threads on the same topic, with horribly flawed and outright incorrect information ,spend that time researching the topic instead.

This has been pointed out to you MULTIPLE times in this thread, but you just kept believing your made up version that it was going to be equal to starting a new character. No one ever said that, you entirely made it up, and have been putting it in quotation marks and claiming that it was going to be some impossibly slow and difficult process to swap covenants.

DO. SOME. RESEARCH.

- - - Updated - - -

You are lying.

Ive answered this already.

You answered with a lie, an outright lie.

[Big Thanks]

Next time, maybe do the research before being outraged? You claim not to be bothered by this system, and yet this isnt the first thread you have started on the topic, its just that your last one was closed. Maybe, instead of spending time making multiple threads on the same topic, with horribly flawed and outright incorrect information ,spend that time researching the topic instead.

This has been pointed out to you MULTIPLE times in this thread, but you just kept believing your made up version that it was going to be equal to starting a new character. No one ever said that, you entirely made it up, and have been putting it in quotation marks and claiming that it was going to be some impossibly slow and difficult process to swap covenants.

DO. SOME. RESEARCH.

Dude...how about you stop following me in every thread i make?
You keep following me...spaming the threads...asking for every single thread i make to be closed.

I didnt know you didnt lose progression....but you will lose 2 weeks of your subscription!
2 entire weeks...

Is still incredibly taxing...

[Pohut]

I have shown, without a doubt, that you lied. You are on the SL forum, talking about SL, and claimed that you cannot change specs without going to a city. Context matters. In the post i quoted, you claimed to be in a "top 50" mythic raid guild - and yet you were unaware you could change specs whenever you wanted? So, are you being dishonest about being a "top 50" mythic raider, or, are you genuinely unaware you can change spec when you like?

See how you spent your entire reply diverting from the topic at hand, and rather than argue the point raised in my post, you spent the entire time focused in on how many posts you have, how long it must have taken me to find these posts, whether my math was correct that out of 200 posts, 95% were in retail, not classic.

You are a retail player, you made a stupid statement, and you got well and truly called out on it. Its over - you tried something, and failed - nothing to be ashamed of. Im busy laughing at your "top 50" claim though, considering you claim to only play each expansion causally, i would argue you are not a core part of any top 50 mythic guild, and simply get carried by a friends guild when its on farm - i mean shit, you didnt even know you could respec whenever you wanted, which is strange for someone in a top 50 mythic guild who has played every single expansion.

Its almost like, you just make shit up and hope no one points out all the inconsistencies in your claims.....

I don't think he even plays this game. There is just so much information in his posts that is blatantly incorrect.

[rhorle]

I didnt know you didnt lose progression....but you will lose 2 weeks of your subscription! 2 entire weeks... Is still incredibly taxing...

You do not lose any subscription time. You are still freely able to play for those two weeks. Stop being overly dramatic to incite fear.

[Big Thanks]

You do not lose any subscription time. You are still freely able to play for those two weeks. Stop being overly dramatic to incite fear.

"incite fear"

What the hell are you on about?
You want to do something, and that something takes 2 weeks to happen...and then you need more weeks to farm progression of that covenant.

Yeah, the entire community is talking about covenants....and shadowpunk is the messiah, the lord, the satan, the chosen one who made all this chaos happen.
Im not doing anything wrong (-_-)

I cant even post on MMO-C anymore without fear of speaking my mind. Jesus.

[arkanon]

Dude...how about you stop following me in every thread i make?
You keep following me...spaming the threads...asking for every single thread i make to be closed.

I didnt know you didnt lose progression....but you will lose 2 weeks of your subscription!
2 entire weeks...

Is still incredibly taxing...

Yeah, and if you clear a raid on reset day you lose AN ENTIRE WEEK OF YOUR SUBSCRIPTION - AN ENTIRE WEEK!.

The problem is that you ignore reality, and substitute your own - just look at the above comment - it is absolute garbage - you don't lose even 1 minute of subscription, but you just make up some absolute trash to fit your narrative.

I didn't ask for the thread to be closed, another outright lie, I asked for you to spend your time researching instead of spreading misinformation through your lies.

- - - Updated - - -

"incite fear"

What the hell are you on about?
You want to do something, and that something takes 2 weeks to happen...and then you need more weeks to farm progression of that covenant.

Yeah, the entire community is talking about covenants....and shadowpunk is the messiah, the lord, the satan, the chosen one who made all this chaos happen.
Im not doing anything wrong (-_-)

I cant even post on MMO-C anymore without fear of speaking my mind. Jesus.

Your opinion is objectively false - you are basing it on claims that are entirely fabricated. The information is readily available, but you instead choose to ignore it, make up your own stories about swapping being equal to starting a brand new character, losing all progression, not being able to swap at all, and losing 2 weeks of subscription - all objectively false, and fabricated by you to fit your narrative of outrage.

[Justpassing]

Man this thread is simply wild.

[Big Thanks]

Yeah, and if you clear a raid on reset day you lose AN ENTIRE WEEK OF YOUR SUBSCRIPTION - AN ENTIRE WEEK!.

The problem is that you ignore reality, and substitute your own - just look at the above comment - it is absolute garbage - you don't lose even 1 minute of subscription, but you just make up some absolute trash to fit your narrative.

I didn't ask for the thread to be closed, another outright lie, I asked for you to spend your time researching instead of spreading misinformation through your lies.

Ohhh the lies, the chaos, the tragedy, the messiah and lord Satan himself Shadowpunk.

Is a timegate of 2 weeks
Is it not?

@arkanon

Im under the impression you just come to every thread i make in hopes to bait me into getting banned.
Heck, maybe you even already reported one of my reply posts in hopes i get banned
Heck, you hate me so much i wouldnt doubt you are speaking with a moderator right now.

I didnt lie at any point.

I didnt edit the OP and i said:
"If you dont think is fair to compare switching covenants to creating a new save file, then show a list of incredibly taxing ones"

[rhorle]

I cant even post on MMO-C anymore without fear of speaking my mind. Jesus.

You can. Just don't exaggerate or lie about something. If you fear being told you are wrong or that you are incorrect then that is your problem and if it happens often enough on these forums then maybe you should think about what you are posting first. You don't lose subscription. You still playing during whatever time it takes to switch covenants. You are inciting fear by saying you lose 2 weeks of subscription. Because people that read it, with out knowing better, will think they really do lose subscription time.

Thankfully though you don't have a large platform to convince people. But look at the wowinsider, or whatever they call themselves these days, and the release of the Karazhan dungeon in Legion. They went off datamined info about the mission table having a "breadcrumb" quest for the dungeon. They posted how it looks like you have to do that quest to get attuned for the instance. Mass outcry ensued all over the place. They were wrong. It wasn't an attunement. It wasn't required. It was just fear mongering.

- - - Updated - - -

Is a timegate of 2 weeks Is it not?

A time gate is not the same as "losing your subscription". You can do plenty of other things in the game while waiting on that cool down period. Don't like it? Don't do it. Which from your fears of losing your subscription you won't be making use of the switching mechanism.

[Big Thanks]

You can. Just don't exaggerate or lie about something. If you fear being told you are wrong or that you are incorrect then that is your problem and if it happens often enough on these forums then maybe you should think about what you are posting first. You don't lose subscription. You still playing during whatever time it takes to switch covenants. You are inciting fear by saying you lose 2 weeks of subscription. Because people that read it, with out knowing better, will think they really do lose subscription time.

Thankfully though you don't have a large platform to convince people. But look at the wowinsider, or whatever they call themselves these days, and the release of the Karazhan dungeon in Legion. They went off datamined info about the mission table having a "breadcrumb" quest for the dungeon. They posted how it looks like you have to do that quest to get attuned for the instance. Mass outcry ensued all over the place. They were wrong. It wasn't an attunement. It wasn't required. It was just fear mongering.

- - - Updated - - -



A time gate is not the same as "losing your subscription". You can do plenty of other things in the game while waiting on that cool down period. Don't like it? Don't do it. Which from your fears of losing your subscription you won't be making use of the switching mechanism.

...

I think you are being a politician here.
In my opinion you are just bending the truth in your favor.

Yes yes yes yes, i said "you lose 2 weeks of subscription" which is not LITERALLY true

But, like i said, you are just bending the truth like a politician.

....

Is completely inconvenient
Like it or not, a 2 week timegate is a PUNISHMENT (not a loss in subscription, but there is no way you can bend the truth here. IT IS A PUNISHMENT. period)

The game design is telling you "No, no, no, no, bad boy, you get punished"

Its supposed to be frustrating...

Feel free to tell me HOW am i still spreading fear..."The game is punishing you for switching covenants" is what im saying not true?

[rhorle]

In my opinion you are just bending the truth in your favor. Yes yes yes yes, i said "you lose 2 weeks of subscription" which is not LITERALLY true

You say one thing but do the exact thing you accuse me of doing. I'm not bending any truth. You are exaggerating for dramatic effect when there is no point to do it. You are the one acting like a politician then getting upset when you are called out on it.

The point is that it is supposed to be inconvenient. It isn't a punishment. It is designed to not switch at will like and as easy as talents. The game isn't punishing you for switching. The game is making it inconvenient to constantly switch factions based on your mood or whatever min/max guide you've read. Having to play the game again, or wait for doing X is not a punishment.

Just like having to wait a week to get loot again from a raid is not a punishment. It is just the design of the system. You are still trying to incite a negative reaction by using punishment. Implying a player that wants to switch is doing something wrong when that is not the case. If blizzard didn't want players to switch they wouldn't allow it. It is funny how quickly you try to spin the system once you learn how it actually works.