Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[beanman12345]

Like, I understand the health and development benefits from kids socializing from being in school, but, the preventive measures that need to be placed to keep the spread are, keeping kids 6 feet away from each other, no group projects and activities, etc. Like what's the point than? Just keep them at home and not risk it.

[Draco-Onis]

Like, I understand the health and development benefits from kids socializing from being in school, but, the preventive measures that need to be placed to keep the spread are, keeping kids 6 feet away from each other, no group projects and activities, etc. Like what's the point than? Just keep them at home and not risk it.

Not really the only options several models can be used with various levels of success including outdoor classes the problem is US schools are already underfunded there's no money to do the basics like bathrooms with proper supplies let alone COVID-19 preparedness. The countries that have done this right poured billions into the school system and took months of planning to do it properly. We are winging this opening of schools because of feels.

[Corvus]

The outbreak in Melbourne shows no real signs of abating, so much so that the state government has declared a state of disaster, a step up from a state of emergency. As a comparison, this has been declared after a period of around 4-500 cases and a half dozen deaths a day, which shows just how much more seriously it is taken here than in other coutnries.

The rules being enforced included curfews from 8pm to 5am, with people only allowed out to seek care, provide care or to go to work. While out, masks are mandatory, but there are heavy restrictions on what people are allowed out for. Shopping is allowed for 1 person per household per day (except for special cases like single parents with kids who they can't leave at home) and it has to be within 5km of the home. Organised sport is banned. House visitors are banned. Wedding are banned (except on compassionate grounds). If people can work from home they must. And a whole host of other restrictions.

Despite this people are still going out and as a result getting heavy fines from the police. You've got people driving a hundred KM for a big mac or to go surfing, or travelling around the CBD to play pokemon go.

But hopefully these new restrictions can nail this sucker.

[Forogil]

First, hes Medical expertise is just that, Medical. It has no relevance on his opinion on the social aspect of school.

He's a paediatrician and the social aspect of school (and other activities) are important for the development of kids, and that's within his area of expertise.

Well, here's a suggestion, don't open up more things! Close down places. Its not rocket science. Every other country that tried it is seeing far reduced spikes.

And shifting towards closing down the right things first (or keeping things open with other restrictions instead), and that isn't schools. Obviously it can be bad enough that even schools need to be closed.

The US is just dumb and decided Eh, lets not care enough to even get a national response to this.

Yes, the US response isn't good - and the focus on school closings is part of that.

Basically every time WHO talks about 'whole of government' or 'whole of society' approach - just think of the opposite of what the US is doing.

[PACOX]

The outbreak in Melbourne shows no real signs of abating, so much so that the state government has declared a state of disaster, a step up from a state of emergency. As a comparison, this has been declared after a period of around 4-500 cases and a half dozen deaths a day, which shows just how much more seriously it is taken here than in other coutnries.

The rules being enforced included curfews from 8pm to 5am, with people only allowed out to seek care, provide care or to go to work. While out, masks are mandatory, but there are heavy restrictions on what people are allowed out for. Shopping is allowed for 1 person per household per day (except for special cases like single parents with kids who they can't leave at home) and it has to be within 5km of the home. Organised sport is banned. House visitors are banned. Wedding are banned (except on compassionate grounds). If people can work from home they must. And a whole host of other restrictions.

Despite this people are still going out and as a result getting heavy fines from the police. You've got people driving a hundred KM for a big mac or to go surfing, or travelling around the CBD to play pokemon go.

But hopefully these new restrictions can nail this sucker.

Whats concerning is that places are now seeing their second wave and us in the US can't get past the first.

[Poopymonster]

Apparently new people are joining the protests to open schools now.

A pic taken from Houston.

[Tuor]

First day without any death due to covid-19 since 16 March.

[Katchii]

First day without any death due to covid-19 since 16 March.

Where? Certainly not the US....

[Forogil]

Where? Certainly not the US....

I would guess Portugal based on the poster history.

However, it might be random chance - or the weekend effects, average deaths in Portugal per day are now 3 (which is also lot lower than the US) and assuming a Poisson distribution that should give 0 deaths one day in 20.

[Zantos]

And shifting towards closing down the right things first (or keeping things open with other restrictions instead), and that isn't schools. Obviously it can be bad enough that even schools need to be closed.

Closing down schools is required. The only reason why its an issue now is because the US didn't do anything else in time to stop it. We are not at a point of thinking "it can be bad enough". We are at the point that it Is bad enough. There shouldn't be a shift. We had the opportunity to be slow and controlled. We are well beyond that. We are at the point where even people who got sick with it already are now back on the list of people who can get infected because this has lasted so long that any immunity they Might have had is now gone. We are at the point where we need things to shut down immediately.

[Tuor]

Where? Certainly not the US....

Portugal obviamente.

[Egomaniac]

He's a paediatrician and the social aspect of school (and other activities) are important for the development of kids, and that's within his area of expertise.


And shifting towards closing down the right things first (or keeping things open with other restrictions instead), and that isn't schools. Obviously it can be bad enough that even schools need to be closed.


Yes, the US response isn't good - and the focus on school closings is part of that.

Basically every time WHO talks about 'whole of government' or 'whole of society' approach - just think of the opposite of what the US is doing.

Really all that needs to be said:

[Gaidax]

The only way to have schools open in September is to have hard lockdown two weeks before, this way at least some time will be bought during September.

I understand the desire by many to have education system reopen proper, because it's a big lifeline for working parents who can't have arrangement for their kids during the workday otherwise. There absolutely will need to be some sort of arrangement, such as, at least, partial reopening.

Then somehow drag this to the end of the year with some hope of reasonable vaccine availability in the early spring.

[Elegiac]

The only way to have schools open in September is to have hard lockdown two weeks before, this way at least some time will be bought during September.

I understand the desire by many to have education system reopen proper, because it's a big lifeline for working parents who can't have arrangement for their kids during the workday otherwise. There absolutely will need to be some sort of arrangement, such as, at least, partial reopening.

Then somehow drag this to the end of the year with some hope of reasonable vaccine availability in the early spring.

"Sure my kid and anyone they are exposed to might die of a lethal infection but at least I can still go to my shitty, also hazardous workplace and earn less than I would on unemployment" isn't an understandable position, it's fuckin' insane and a damning commentary on the economic and public assistance structures the right wing have spent the last half century sabotaging.

[Gaidax]

"Sure my kid and anyone they are exposed to might die of a lethal infection but at least I can still go to my shitty, also hazardous workplace and earn less than I would on unemployment" isn't an understandable position, it's fuckin' insane and a damning commentary on the economic and public assistance structures the right wing have spent the last half century sabotaging.

I think at some point a person with any lick of common sense will understand that you can't lockdown until Spring.

As such, yes, there will need to be some sort of compromise that reduces the risks while still helps people to get by. It is a very real issue for working parents and not everyone by far have any sort of permanent solution there.

[Egomaniac]

The only way to have schools open in September is to have hard lockdown two weeks before, this way at least some time will be bought during September.

I understand the desire by many to have education system reopen proper, because it's a big lifeline for working parents who can't have arrangement for their kids during the workday otherwise. There absolutely will need to be some sort of arrangement, such as, at least, partial reopening.

Not two weeks before. Lock down right now. Lock down 2 weeks ago.

If everyone could have just stayed home when they didn't need to go out and wear masks when they did back at the start....this thing could have been, if not eliminated, at least been staggered enough that opening schools in September would have been easy.

Then somehow drag this to the end of the year with some hope of reasonable vaccine availability in the early spring.

People need to stop planning for this miracle early vaccine. People need to be prepared for this to last at least until next summer...probably longer. If the vaccine is ready, mass produced, and available to all in Spring...fantastic...but making "hope for an early vaccine" part of your game plan is just a bad idea. I understand hope is important...but hope needs to be tempered with realism.

[Gaidax]

People need to stop planning for this miracle early vaccine. People need to be prepared for this to last at least until next summer...probably longer. If the vaccine is ready, mass produced, and available to all in Spring...fantastic...but making "hope for an early vaccine" part of your game plan is just a bad idea. I understand hope is important...but hope needs to be tempered with realism.

Spring is realistic, you have at least 2 vaccines at final testing stages - we will have vaccine by Spring. It's not just some empty hope.

I think it's important to not go full paranoid there either. In the end we will have to live with this for next ~9 months, that's a long time and considering nobody in their right mind will be locking down countries for months without end, it's much better to be reasonable and find a way to keep a balance between the polar opposites of lockdown and free-for-all.

[Elegiac]

I think at some point a person with any lick of common sense will understand that you can't lockdown until Spring.

And people who actually listen to medical expertise and not "common sense" they pick up on Facebook know that regardless of whether or not America "can" do it, it is what is necessary.

Maybe take issue with the crap economic structure that prohibits that, not people wanting to keep their kids and their kids' families and friends alive.

As such, yes, there will need to be some sort of compromise that reduces the risks while still helps people to get by. It is a very real issue for working parents and not everyone by far have any sort of permanent solution there.

Or, hear me out.

We go to the people complaining about the schools being closed, tell them to go suck a big fat one, and then actually take the pandemic seriously and do what is necessary to arrest it - then deal with the economic fallout after. Because the half-pregnant approach you're advocating because your feelings don't care about facts will doom the economy either way.

We can continue paying people to stay home, but no amount of money can bring back the dead. What about this basic fact is escaping y'all, exactly?

[Gaidax]

We can continue paying people to stay home, but no amount of money can bring back the dead. What about this basic fact is escaping y'all, exactly?

You think you can, but you can't. Those one time pittance checks or various upkeep initiatives don't really cover shit.

It's absolutely possible to keep death count to the minimum, while still continuing with our lives. We do this just fine, even with our current second wave and many Europe countries do as well. We could still do quite a bit better, but I believe that in case of my country - lockdown is no longer necessary, except for select restrictions on businesses and guidelines enforcement.

I guess in case of US it's much more difficult because "muh freedumbz", but in the end if decent rule-set is in place and there is a reasonable accountability and social backlash for failing to adhere to these rules - it helps a lot. I imagine US needs to work a bit more on the "accountability" part with actual administrative actions for those who violate the rules.

That is far better alternative to perpetual lockdown, which is simply unrealistic. Frankly, I'm sort of amused anyone thinks there is a snowball's chance in hell of US-wide lockdown. It will simply never happen, no matter the administration.

[Elegiac]

You think you can, but you can't. Those one time pittance checks or various upkeep initiatives don't really cover shit.

I agree, which is why I am fully in favor of universal basic income for the duration of the crisis.

At which point the conundrum on the part of the people you are defending is immediately to be revealed as not one of feasibility, but "ehhhhhh I don't wanna give the poors money for nothing :<<<<<" - i.e. not an actual concern over anyone or even society's welfare.

Clownery and greed, plain and simple.