Why are classes being ignored in Shadowlands in favor of new systems?

[LCDArcade]

This could just be me but I feel like class and talent design are being completely overshadowed by new game systems. All I've heard concern about for the last several months are Covenants and Soulbinds, Torghast etc.

Classes fundamentally are the most important aspect of the game or any MMO for that matter and in my opinion classes aren't really in a good spot right now going into Shadowlands; Yes I'm happy for the slight un-pruning of abilities but is that it? If the classes are boring to play and feels stale then what's the point of all the new systems to begin with?

Shadow Priests, Survival Hunters, Guardian and Feral Druids, Frost Death Knights, Shamans....can these classes please see some love before the launch of Shadowlands?

What about talents? Honestly for a lot of classes still talents feel mandatory to complete or fill gaps in design flaws for a specialization instead of being a compliment to the class that is an actual choice. For example Frost Death Knights best Talent will be Breath of Sindragosa for 3 expansion in a row now with no other competitive options in sight; you even added 'Hypothermic Presence to push that build even further for some reason. Another example is Demonic for Demon Hunters which is picked 99% of the time. I could on and on but you get the point.

There is just way too much focus on borrowed powers every expansion. Let's focus on the core of the game first then add in new systems to compliment the classes, not add new systems to 'fix' or fill in gaps in class design. That's why they aren't adding in a new class this expansion because they said they wanted to focus more on what we have already but quite frankly I just haven't seen that happen yet.

[arkanon]

Classes fundamentally are the most important aspect of the game or any MMO for that matter and in my opinion classes aren’t really in a good spot right now going into Shadowlands; Yes I’m happy for the slight un-pruning of abilities but is that it? If the classes are boring to play and feels stale then what’s the point of all the new systems to begin with?

.

This mirrors my opinion - it doesnt matter how flash the racetrack is, how many straights, turns, banks, grandstands, food stands, sound systems - non of that matters if you are driving it in ya mums clapped out 1995 automatic honda civic with 2 flat tyres.

Im not sure i agree that the classes have been ignored, but i do feel they have used those new systems to fill gaps in the classes, a mistake they have made twice recently.

My concern is that it gives them an out - "yeah, we hear your feedback about classes, but its just beta - you just wait until you have levled everything up and unlocked everything and have better gear!"

And when that happens, and people are still unhappy, they say "we hear you, and are making some changes for 9.1 we think you will find REALLY exciting!"

And then this will repeat until "with 10.0, we are revamping all the classes! we hear you!"

[Schattenlied]

couldn't agree more... Classes are in a terrible state and they just keep focusing on borrowed powers that we won't even have once this is over.

Get the classes to a good spot, THEN do your borrowed powers bullshit, Blizz.

[Kyphael]

Classes are being ignored? But I thought the reason we weren't getting a new playable class was because Blizzard was going to focus on class design and address all the issues with it. Surely, class design will be great in Shadowlands because they didn't have to devote development time for a new class so they can fix the broken classes instead.

[dcc626]

im sure all the time you wont be using to play the game can be put to good use here, standing up for the real gamers who know how to fix everything.

or you will just play and complain. probably that.

[TheRevenantHero]

Classes are being ignored? But I thought the reason we weren't getting a new playable class was because Blizzard was going to focus on class design and address all the issues with it. Surely, class design will be great in Shadowlands because they didn't have to devote development time for a new class so they can fix the broken classes instead.

I feel like this needs to be coupled with nervous laughter.

[Musta]

Because blizzard never learn the lesson that is the classes that make their game. the first thing, ever. Its a basic lesson and they refuse to look at it.

- - - Updated - - -

im sure all the time you wont be using to play the game can be put to good use here, standing up for the real gamers who know how to fix everything.

or you will just play and complain. probably that.

oh yes i will and and i will fucking complain on the foruns until they block me a thousand times.

[Hitei]

Why are classes being ignored in Shadowlands in favor of new systems?.

Because "terrible classes" is just the latest complaint meme and the reality is that besides a couple outlying specs, classes vary from "could use a couple tweaks" to "are in a good place". Additionally, putting the effort into classes does little, because then instead of bitching and moaning about how X class needs changes, people bitch and moan about how X class was changed and Y class got more new stuff, and why didn't they add more stuff to do and they liked the other "needs work" version more.

[taishar68]

This could just be me but I feel like class and talent design are being completely overshadowed by new game systems. All I've heard concern about for the last several months are Covenants and Soulbinds, Torghast etc.

Classes fundamentally are the most important aspect of the game or any MMO for that matter and in my opinion classes aren't really in a good spot right now going into Shadowlands; Yes I'm happy for the slight un-pruning of abilities but is that it? If the classes are boring to play and feels stale then what's the point of all the new systems to begin with?

Shadow Priests, Survival Hunters, Guardian and Feral Druids, Frost Death Knights, Shamans....can these classes please see some love before the launch of Shadowlands?

What about talents? Honestly for a lot of classes still talents feel mandatory to complete or fill gaps in design flaws for a specialization instead of being a compliment to the class that is an actual choice. For example Frost Death Knights best Talent will be Breath of Sindragosa for 3 expansion in a row now with no other competitive options in sight; you even added 'Hypothermic Presence to push that build even further for some reason. Another example is Demonic for Demon Hunters which is picked 99% of the time. I could on and on but you get the point.

There is just way too much focus on borrowed powers every expansion. Let's focus on the core of the game first then add in new systems to compliment the classes, not add new systems to 'fix' or fill in gaps in class design. That's why they aren't adding in a new class this expansion because they said they wanted to focus more on what we have already but quite frankly I just haven't seen that happen yet.

It's just my opinion, but class design is probably not as important to the entirety of the WoW population as it is to folks who are totally engrossed by it. I am not saying it is irrelevant, or people are wrong to be concerned about it, but perhaps Blizz doesn't agree that it is as big a selling point as some believe it to be.

[ro9ue]

I agree. It's just reapplying a new bandaid every expansion instead of addressing the root problem.

[Aigilas]

This could just be me but I feel like class and talent design are being completely overshadowed by new game systems. All I've heard concern about for the last several months are Covenants and Soulbinds, Torghast etc.

Classes fundamentally are the most important aspect of the game or any MMO for that matter and in my opinion classes aren't really in a good spot right now going into Shadowlands; Yes I'm happy for the slight un-pruning of abilities but is that it? If the classes are boring to play and feels stale then what's the point of all the new systems to begin with?

Shadow Priests, Survival Hunters, Guardian and Feral Druids, Frost Death Knights, Shamans....can these classes please see some love before the launch of Shadowlands?

What about talents? Honestly for a lot of classes still talents feel mandatory to complete or fill gaps in design flaws for a specialization instead of being a compliment to the class that is an actual choice. For example Frost Death Knights best Talent will be Breath of Sindragosa for 3 expansion in a row now with no other competitive options in sight; you even added 'Hypothermic Presence to push that build even further for some reason. Another example is Demonic for Demon Hunters which is picked 99% of the time. I could on and on but you get the point.

There is just way too much focus on borrowed powers every expansion. Let's focus on the core of the game first then add in new systems to compliment the classes, not add new systems to 'fix' or fill in gaps in class design. That's why they aren't adding in a new class this expansion because they said they wanted to focus more on what we have already but quite frankly I just haven't seen that happen yet.

they are ignoing classes, because the huge overreaching systems they are trying to lay over the top of classes, are massively/ impossibly hard to balance and they will just ruin the whole game. so they are spending all the development time that once use to be used for class development and talents, into trying to shore up these god awefull removeable power systems.

eg. if they simple removed the entire soulbind/conduit system ............... would anything of value actually be lost? from all i have read its all super passive none engaging "buffs" all the interesting mechanics and change of playstyle systems are being covered in the signiture/class abilities with covenants and legendaries

[Marxman]

Because Blizzard doesn't listen to feedback.

Class design has been the single most consistently complained about aspect of WoW since WoD. It's also gotten significantly less love than borrowed power bullshit since Legion. They just don't seem to give a shit, tbh.

[Elbob]

Because Blizzard doesn't listen to feedback.

Class design has been the single most consistently complained about aspect of WoW since WoD. It's also gotten significantly less love than borrowed power bullshit since Legion. They just don't seem to give a shit, tbh.

what makes "good class design", sounds real feelycraft to me. How can you say new stuff has gotten more love then class designs?
What metric are you using to compare the 2?
number of changes made? of course the new system is gonna get tons of tweek its new unless you want them to reinvent classes every expac.

[deenman]

couldn't agree more... Classes are in a terrible state and they just keep focusing on borrowed powers that we won't even have once this is over.

Get the classes to a good spot, THEN do your borrowed powers bullshit, Blizz.

lol some classes are basicaly borrowed power at this point,paladin and shadow priests have changed so much almost every expansion

[october breeze]

Funny, Ion said in a video explicitly that they are aware of the shitty class design of BFA and will fix it in SL. And they brought back Holinka.

And yet, here we are. Another expansion of the same lies, same bullshit power ups, same stick on carrot, grinding and grinding and grinding. Funny enough, all your efforts will be meaningless in 2 patches, when they introduce catch up mechanics.

Really stupid game design imo.

[cocomen2]

what makes "good class design", sounds real feelycraft to me. How can you say new stuff has gotten more love then class designs?
What metric are you using to compare the 2?
number of changes made? of course the new system is gonna get tons of tweek its new unless you want them to reinvent classes every expac.

Let me define what is "good class design" , its when you having fun from class spells, its when you got new talent row to have fun with, its when you not bored with class after 4 months, its when devs rewamp and rework dead talents .... so you can have new illusion of choice.

But when people were crying "WE DONT NEED NEW CLASS,MAKE OLD ONES FUN TO PLAY AGAIN" and we got same BFA shit-hole class design with ... no new talent rows, no new skills in class (covenant skills dont belong to class),no rework surv hunter back into range,no adding range spec to DH glaive-tosser (wc3 meta).

I still pissed that they just removed "pirate" theme from outlaw rogue past legion ... for a reasons that we not know about....i mean Kul Tiras +Pirates = can be sold as hot cakes.

[Dracullus]

I watched reaction of people in Alpha and they were fine with most specs beside some outliers like Feral or Shadow. Something happened or it's another "classes are in terrible state" pointless thread?

[cocomen2]

I watched reaction of people in Alpha and they were fine with most specs beside some outliers like Feral or Shadow. Something happened or it's another "classes are in terrible state" pointless thread?

Is they say some negative staff about state of class design, these "sheeps" would risk into getting to next Alpha ........ why risk if you are slave to the game?


People sit silent 4 years without new talent rows .... as if its okay .....prune a shit out of classes. remove cool artifact weapon ....lol add some essences to remove them, add some other shit that you can not worry about , anyway borrowed power gonna be removed with next expac .... why bother with FIXes? just wait for 10.0 alpha.

[kaminaris]

what makes "good class design", sounds real feelycraft to me. How can you say new stuff has gotten more love then class designs?
What metric are you using to compare the 2?
number of changes made? of course the new system is gonna get tons of tweek its new unless you want them to reinvent classes every expac.

This should pretty much conclude a thread.

[Dracullus]

Is they say some negative staff about state of class design, these "sheeps" would risk into getting to next Alpha ........ why risk if you are slave to the game?


People sit silent 4 years without new talent rows .... as if its okay .....prune a shit out of classes. remove cool artifact weapon ....lol add some essences to remove them, add some other shit that you can not worry about , anyway borrowed power gonna be removed with next expac .... why bother with FIXes? just wait for 10.0 alpha.

"Sheeps" like Preach?

Ok, now I understand what kind of thread it is. Have fun.