Since Airborne Priests are <Goblin Military>, are they Paladins?

[Razion]

They swing giant two-handed tools, and exorcise things. They're kind of like battle priests. So, should we consider them Goblin Paladins? Paladins of humanity got their start in a similar manner. For those unfamiliar with the reference, there's a large assortment of Airborne Priests near Wings of Steel parked in Bilgewater Harbor which show up in the Dozercism quest. For those wondering how traditional Goblin greed can coexist with tenants of Priesthood and Paladins by extension, in the Dozercism quest the Airborne Priest basically charges or extorts for the exorcism.

[Biomega]

Nobody wonders how priesthood can coexist with material greed. We've all seen religions.

I guess the difference between priests and paladins is how they use the light. Paladins go more for the hit-you-on-the-head kind of light, while priests focus more on channeling it directly into effects. There's overlap, of course - Paladins use healing, and Priests use buffing after all (remember Inner Fire?).

But there is a big gray area in the overlap, for sure. Just look at Anduin - he's supposedly a priest, but he walks around in heavy armor hitting things with swords. I guess he's a paladin now, then? Or something?

But for some reason a lot of races that CAN be priests CAN'T be paladins? Because... reasons?

Yeah. WoW lore being WoW lore.

[Pandragon]

No. Being a Paladin requires more than just picking up a large metallic object and learning to swing it.

[DeltrusDisc]

God no. I hate Goblins and they should all be destroyed except maybe 3 of them.

[Better]

Man, you have no idea how let down I was when I realized the OP is just false.
"They swing giant two-handed wrenches, and exorcise things"

No, I did all the quests in the zone up to this point just to check, he uses a pickaxe on a siege tank... and calls it an exorcism. If you don't act for long enough he just dies.

Edit: I see your Edit OP, it's just a pickaxe. This isn't some giant tool... it's a run of the mill pickaxe. This isn't the battlepriest the original OP seemed to promise, just a "Bad exorcist" joke character.

[Razion]

No. Being a Paladin requires more than just picking up a large metallic object and learning to swing it.

If you're implying morality has anything to do with it, I don't think that ever held up what with the Scarlet Crusade and especially more recently with what Xe'ra tried to do to Illidan and also what with what's going on with Draenor and the Lightbound. I don't think Goblins asking to get paid is anywhere near as evil as what has been demonstrated up to by this point certainly, especially considering player characters get paid. And it's not like Goblins are incapable of doing good things or acting for the greater good - they just like to get paid, and they demonstrate that the two aren't really mutually exclusive often enough what with how often they have the Horde's backs all the time and have contributed to various efforts to help save the world. By what other criteria do you think needs to be filled?

[...]No, I did all the quests in the zone up to this point just to check, he uses a pickaxe on a siege tank... and calls it an exorcism. If you don't act for long enough he just dies.

(Okay, pickaxe, fair enough.) He does get the ghost in the machine out (though the player helps), to his credit. I don't think him being in mortal danger really discredits what he's doing. In fact it probably makes it more noble that he's putting his life on the line and doesn't run away.

[Better]

(Okay, pickaxe, fair enough.) He does get the ghost in the machine out (though the player helps), to his credit. I don't think him being in mortal danger really discredits what he's doing. In fact it probably makes it more noble that he's putting his life on the line and doesn't run away.

He doesn't though, he can die or not. You can complete the quest if he's dead just fine. I did the quest both ways (without turning it in) just to check if it worked. The ghost doesn't get forced out, you just break the thing that's possessed, so it no longer functions.

[Pandragon]

If you're implying morality has anything to do with it, I don't think that ever held up what with the Scarlet Crusade and especially more recently with what Xe'ra tried to do to Illidan and also what with what's going on with Draenor and the Lightbound. I don't think Goblins asking to get paid is anywhere near as evil as what has been demonstrated up to by this point certainly, especially considering player characters get paid. And it's not like Goblins are incapable of doing good things or acting for the greater good - they just like to get paid, and they demonstrate that the two aren't really mutually exclusive often enough what with how often they have the Horde's backs all the time and have contributed to various efforts to help save the world. By what other criteria do you think needs to be filled?

Devotion. It requires a lot more devotion to the light and their faith than being a Priest does. Good or bad, if your devotion is strong enough you can become a Paladin. That's why Sir Zeleik retained his holy powers even as a Death Knight.

The first of the Paladins weren't priests who were taught how to wield 2 handed weapons. Only one was. They were actually knights taught to wield the light, and it took time for their true powers to activate. Uther's powers manifested during battle in the second war, that's why he is called the Lightbringer.

[melzas]

It baffles me that at this point people still think that race/class combinations are dictated by lore. It's mostly gameplay decision.

They twist the lore again and again to fit in more class options, which while is a good thing, makes it clear that lore comes second. It started with Dranaei shamans, went on with goblin priests and shamans, Tauren Paladins, undead monks, pandaren DKs, Zandalari warlock's, Kul Tiran paladins and others.

Sure, they gave "explanations" to some weird combos (or their lack of), but in reality they could have done the same with all other race/class combination.

As for Goblin Paladins specifically, I think the case could be literally made for any race that has priests (which is... every race except orcs). To me it feels paladins, druids and shamans are so race restricted is because of extra work blizzard would have to put in to make them a thing (mounts, forms, totems), and 'lore" is just an excuse to slack.

[Razion]

Devotion. It requires a lot more devotion to the light and their faith than being a Priest does. Good or bad, if your devotion is strong enough you can become a Paladin. That's why Sir Zeleik retained his holy powers even as a Death Knight.

The first of the Paladins weren't priests who were taught how to wield 2 handed weapons. Only one was. They were actually knights taught to wield the light, and it took time for their true powers to activate. Uther's powers manifested during battle in the second war, that's why he is called the Lightbringer.

Who's to say the Goblin isn't devoted, though? They're heavily motivated by payment, so it seems to me as simple as a militarily payed position like the Airborne is enough for the Goblins to just secide to believe because they're getting paid. It may be just that simple for them. Religion may be a more complicated relationship for other races, but we already know Goblins have priests, so faith isn't the problem here.

[StationaryHawk]

If they were paladins, they wouldn't be called airborne priests. Goblins should at least be able to get their branding right, if nothing else.

[Pandragon]

Who's to say the Goblin isn't devoted, though? They're heavily motivated by payment, so it seems to me as simple as a militarily payed position like the Airborne is enough for the Goblins to just secide to believe because they're getting paid. It may be just that simple for them. Religion may be a more complicated relationship for other races, but we already know Goblins have priests, so faith isn't the problem here.

It's devotion to the light, not to money. The goblins dont believe in the light unless they get paid to. Goblin Priests are basically Televangelists. Look at Shamans. All shamans have a connection tot he spirits to harness the power. Goblins use technology to take the power for themselves.

Think of Goblin priest as a Green Lantern. They use their willpower, driven by greed, to wield the light. This willpower is not strong enough to reach the devotion of a Paladin. Being a Paladin is more than just putting on plate and swinging a giant sword.

[Susanoo]

It's devotion to the light, not to money. The goblins dont believe in the light unless they get paid to. Goblin Priests are basically Televangelists. Look at Shamans. All shamans have a connection tot he spirits to harness the power. Goblins use technology to take the power for themselves.

Think of Goblin priest as a Green Lantern. They use their willpower, driven by greed, to wield the light. This willpower is not strong enough to reach the devotion of a Paladin. Being a Paladin is more than just putting on plate and swinging a giant sword.

I agree with everyone except for the last part. I think being a paladin is pretty much being able to wear plate and have the martial prowess to wield the light in melee combat. Becoming a priest is probably easier to do than to be a paladin, essentially to become a priest you study the light and learn how to wield it. Being a paladin requires you to study the light and be able to have the strength to wear heavy plate, mounted combat, melee combat, and study battlefield tactics. The difference between paladins and priests are the fact that paladins are specialized melee combat. A Goblin paladin would need to be specialized in Melee Combat and have the willpower to use the light either through devotion or greed. I think to Goblins the idea of being a paladin is probably not profitable as they generally are used in combat more frequently than priests who can make gold by blessing others. Each Paladin race in the game has an order that trains them in both wielding the light and martial prowess. Priests just need to be able to study the light and boom you can wield it, that was the case with Zabra Hexx in the Ashbringer comics. Zabra literally found a tome in the scarlet monastery and was able to wield the light.

[Louz]

They swing giant two-handed tools, and exorcise things. They're kind of like battle priests. So, should we consider them Goblin Paladins? Paladins of humanity got their start in a similar manner. For those unfamiliar with the reference, there's a large assortment of Airborne Priests near Wings of Steel parked in Bilgewater Harbor which show up in the Dozercism quest. For those wondering how traditional Goblin greed can coexist with tenants of Priesthood and Paladins by extension, in the Dozercism quest the Airborne Priest basically charges or extorts for the exorcism.

According to WoW's recent lore, anyone can be a paladin as long as they believe in something glowy or shiny.

I mean, it's used as an argument for tauren and trolls, no reason it shouldn't apply on anyone else.

[Powerogue]

They're paladins if that means they'll get additional tips for the offering plate, buddy.

[Kyphael]

Goblin and Night Elf Paladins are the two Horde/Alliance races I want most as paladins. I could so see Goblins being Paladins akin to Blood Knights in Burning Crusade by kidnapping a Naaru and bending it to their will with mechanical monstrosities, or bribing The Light. Joking on the latter, but not really.

[Razion]

It's devotion to the light, not to money. The goblins dont believe in the light unless they get paid to. Goblin Priests are basically Televangelists. Look at Shamans. All shamans have a connection tot he spirits to harness the power. Goblins use technology to take the power for themselves.

Think of Goblin priest as a Green Lantern. They use their willpower, driven by greed, to wield the light. This willpower is not strong enough to reach the devotion of a Paladin. Being a Paladin is more than just putting on plate and swinging a giant sword.

Well, Goblins have a transactional relationship with Elementals I think (see Goldmine), so it's a bit different in that case. I do think the Televangelist angle works really well for Goblins in that not only does it serve the purposes of filling their pockets, but if they believe their sales pitch works and especially when it does it can kind of embolden and strengthen their conviction that what they're doing is working. The Goblins may not see it as such a big jump in logic to suddenly believe in something if they're being paid for it. Goblins are pretty simply motivated so I think believing in things is probably a lot easier for them than other races that may have more of a mental barrier because of that connection to money making everything okay. Magic is very real in Azeroth and the cause and effect nature of believing it works so it works is pretty straight-forward for a race that tends to value that kind of practical logic and how it relates to engineering and other studies.

[melzas]

I could so see Goblins being Paladins akin to Blood Knights in Burning Crusade by kidnapping a Naaru and bending it to their will with mechanical monstrosities, or bribing The Light. Joking on the latter, but not really.

Well apparently goblin shamans make "deals" with elementals to command their power so I guess it wouldn't be that much of a stretch really.

And goblins could use some extra class diversity tbh.

[Snowfunk]

Can I get to play an Undead Paladin already...?

[Kyphael]

Well apparently goblin shamans make "deals" with elementals to command their power so I guess it wouldn't be that much of a stretch really.

And goblins could use some extra class diversity tbh.

Sounds hilarious and faithful to lore!