Sentenced to life imprisonment for trying to steal hedge clippers.

[Hellobolis]

I like how you're all heart for the criminal but the gift from my dead grandmother is just a big joke. If it's no big deal he didn't have to steal it either

the vast vast vast majority of petty theft happens because it is a big deal to the person stealing. lessening the financial need for it makes a lot of sense as a preventative measure.

and i've never said there shouldn't be consequences if you commit crimes.

[RobertoCarlos]

I mean, nobody is arguing that stealing them wasn't wrong or that it wasn't a dumb idea.

But that in no way, shape, or form justifies any policies or laws that would imprison someone for life for a minor offense, yet we have people happy that taxpayers in his state have paid over $500,000 to keep him locked up for decades over a pair of hedge trimmers.

- - - Updated - - -



He didn't even succeed in stealing it, dude. Nobody is shitting on the victim here either, that's you projecting that so that you can justify your support for keeping the dude in jail for life.

Then vote for someone who campaigns on prison reform. Oh wait most of americans like having the "bad guys" behind bars because it makes them feel safer and they can have one less loaded revolver hidden in the house.

Meanwhile forgive me if I don't weep for people stupid enough to fall victim to the money making scheme

[Doctor Amadeus]

I like how you're all heart for the criminal but the gift from my dead grandmother is just a big joke. If it's no big deal he didn't have to steal it either.

You think someone addicted to crack looking to feed thier habit cares about thier net flix account?

Well since it's your imagination there is no way to refute your argument other than to as you put it, "Heart for the criminals" Which is why it isn't an honest argument to begin with.

I already said as some have that theft is wrong, the question is also does PRISON fit the crime, keep in mind society has to pay for taking care of this thief either way.

[RobertoCarlos]

the vast vast vast majority of petty theft happens because it is a big deal to the person stealing. lessening the financial need for it makes a lot of sense as a preventative measure.

and i've never said there shouldn't be consequences if you commit crimes.

In countries with good welfare support you still get high levels of theft.

A lot of the time it's teens doing it for fun. A lot of times it's someone doing it because they like it

[Edge-]

Then vote for someone who campaigns on prison reform.

Not my state bro, can't do shit. But I absolutely do support politicians, elected officials, and ballot measures to that effect. Voted to do away with the CA death penalty when it was last on the ballot.

Oh wait most of americans like having the "bad guys" behind bars because it makes them feel safer and they can have one less loaded revolver hidden in the house

Most Americans are pretty cruel when it comes to criminal justice, I agree. Though I'm not sure what the fuck a loaded revolver has to do with a guy who's criminal history is largely non-violent petty theft.

But hyperbole seems to kinda be "your thing" in this thread to justify your position that he should be imprisoned for life.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Then vote for someone who campaigns on prison reform. Oh wait most of americans like having the "bad guys" behind bars because it makes them feel safer and they can have one less loaded revolver hidden in the house.

Meanwhile forgive me if I don't weep for people stupid enough to fall victim to the money making scheme

This guy hasn't committed any sort of active violent crime, and as someone who does own weapons at no fucking point do I look forward to killing someone breaking in, or feel the justice system ought to be some kind of dark age device that punishes people without mercy or consideration for SOME circumstances.


Stealing is wrong, but the drive to do other things like eat food can be stronger, perhaps the man was stealing things to sell so that he could eat. Or maybe he has a mental disorder, whatever the reason be it is wrong.

However it doesn't take away the fact there is reason for his behavior, and if that can be addressed, no more stealing, which should be your goal, if you indeed are concerned about theft.

[RobertoCarlos]

Not my state bro, can't do shit. But I absolutely do support politicians, elected officials, and ballot measures to that effect. Voted to do away with the CA death penalty when it was last on the ballot.



Most Americans are pretty cruel when it comes to criminal justice, I agree. Though I'm not sure what the fuck a loaded revolver has to do with a guy who's criminal history is largely non-violent petty theft.

But hyperbole seems to kinda be "your thing" in this thread to justify your position that he should be imprisoned for life.

If you research career criminals you would know things start small and escalate. This is my problem with prison as it creates more ruthless criminals and connections. They are basically getting thier criminal degree in there. I'm not gonna belittle garden shears as nothing though and he should have just gotten a stern talking too. Fuck that you steal anything it's theft and counts as theft

[Edge-]

In countries with good welfare support you still get high levels of theft.

A lot of the time it's teens doing it for fun. A lot of times it's someone doing it because they like it

https://www.unodc.org/documents/data...nd_Justice.pdf

Page 41



Older data but like...no? US is in the highest quartile along with a handful of countries with better social safety nets in Europe like Spain and Great Britain. Most of the EU countries are well below the US with France at the bottom end, Denmark, Finland, Greece, and Norway in the second lowest group, and Austria, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, Sweden and Switzerland being below the US in the second highest group.

[draynay]

I'm not gonna belittle garden shears as nothing though and he should have just gotten a stern talking too. Fuck that you steal anything it's theft and counts as theft

He has already served 23 years for it...

Its too late for anyone to be saying it should go unpunished, and nobody has.

[Hellobolis]

In countries with good welfare support you still get high levels of theft.

A lot of the time it's teens doing it for fun. A lot of times it's someone doing it because they like it

sure people steal for fun too. but most grow out of that.

you only become a serious repeat offender for a real reason though. and oftentimes, that reason can be nipped in the bud after you get caught the first or second time. but humans being humans, we tend to just throw fuel on the fire instead.

anyways fun fact: most people break one law or another every day without realizing it, should 3 strikes apply to jaywalking too or is that not real enough of a crime?

[gondrin]

So because there isn't 100% success rate, you wouldn't want to try to rehabilitate someone to be a functioning member of society and instead force taxpayers to have them locked up indefinitely?



I gave you an alternative.

Well, the guy sounds like a kleptomaniac which is a mental disorder. Most mental disorders are lifelong things people struggle with. Depression, pedophilia and others. While I am not comparing what he did to those, they have all the same underlying condition. They aren't curable, only treatable and managed. It would be better for him to be somewhere that he can be watched(forced mental care facilities are prisons, just a different kind) then be out in society where he could be shot for breaking into a house or property. Yes, the punishment is harsh for him and prison may not be the right answer but he does need to be separated from society which will ultimately cost money.

[RobertoCarlos]

https://www.unodc.org/documents/data...nd_Justice.pdf

Page 41



Older data but like...no? US is in the highest quartile along with a handful of countries with better social safety nets in Europe like Spain and Great Britain. Most of the EU countries are well below the US with France at the bottom end, Denmark, Finland, Greece, and Norway in the second lowest group, and Austria, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, Sweden and Switzerland being below the US in the second highest group.

Why does new Zealand have incredibly high levels of theft and one of the best welfare support systems in the developed world?

[Edge-]

If you research career criminals you would know things start small and escalate.

So his decades long career of crime escalated to...hedge trimmers? Damn, by now I think he might be up to microwaves or TV's or something. Hide yo wife, hide yo kids.

This is my problem with prison as it creates more ruthless criminals and connections. They are basically getting thier criminal degree in there.

Yeah, because prisons aren't set up to actually deter crime by helping prisoners get the skills necessary to reintegrate into society successfully so they fall back into a cycle of poverty and crime. Weird.

I'm not gonna belittle garden shears as nothing though and he should have just gotten a stern talking too. Fuck that you steal anything it's theft and counts as theft

Cool, so make him do supervised community service. There are a million other ways to address this without asking taxpayers to foot the bill for over half a million dollars to keep a guy off the street for a few decades for the crime of...trying to steal some hedge trimmers.

[RobertoCarlos]

sure people steal for fun too. but most grow out of that.

you only become a serious repeat offender for a real reason though. and oftentimes, that reason can be nipped in the bud after you get caught the first or second time. but humans being humans, we tend to just throw fuel on the fire instead.

anyways fun fact: most people break one law or another every day without realizing it, should 3 strikes apply to jaywalking too or is that not real enough of a crime?

Jay walking shouldn't be a crime. Just like not wearing your seat belt isn't a crime. It's a fine

Theft is 100% a crime

[Edge-]

Why does new Zealand have incredibly high levels of theft and one of the best welfare support systems in the developed world?

"Incredibly high"? It's in the third quartile with less than half the theft that exists in the US.

Maybe you could like, do an internet search for this to find more context as to why its theft rate is around 60 per 100,000 to answer your own question? You know, instead of just throwing out random, unsupported garbage like "COUNTRIES WITH SOCIAL SAFETY NETS HAVE JUST AS MUCH THEFT!" when they fucking do not.

[Kaver]

“Land of the free”

Getting your life taken away for making 3 small mistakes doesn’t seem very “free” to me.

You’re “free” as long as you got money. Otherwise you’re fucked.

Murica...

[RobertoCarlos]

So his decades long career of crime escalated to...hedge trimmers? Damn, by now I think he might be up to microwaves or TV's or something. Hide yo wife, hide yo kids.



Yeah, because prisons aren't set up to actually deter crime by helping prisoners get the skills necessary to reintegrate into society successfully so they fall back into a cycle of poverty and crime. Weird.



Cool, so make him do supervised community service. There are a million other ways to address this without asking taxpayers to foot the bill for over half a million dollars to keep a guy off the street for a few decades for the crime of...trying to steal some hedge trimmers.

Hedge clippers today. A school girls back pack tomorrow. Back packs are cheap though right? Just buy a new one

[Hellobolis]

Jay walking shouldn't be a crime. Just like not wearing your seat belt isn't a crime. It's a fine

Theft is 100% a crime

right. so how do you draw the line?

[gondrin]

https://www.unodc.org/documents/data...nd_Justice.pdf

Page 41



Older data but like...no? US is in the highest quartile along with a handful of countries with better social safety nets in Europe like Spain and Great Britain. Most of the EU countries are well below the US with France at the bottom end, Denmark, Finland, Greece, and Norway in the second lowest group, and Austria, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, Sweden and Switzerland being below the US in the second highest group.

Some of those countries that have the lowest rates of theft also have punishments like cutting of the hand of someone who steals.

[RobertoCarlos]

"Incredibly high"? It's in the third quartile with less than half the theft that exists in the US.

Maybe you could like, do an internet search for this to find more context as to why its theft rate is around 60 per 100,000 to answer your own question? You know, instead of just throwing out random, unsupported garbage like "COUNTRIES WITH SOCIAL SAFETY NETS HAVE JUST AS MUCH THEFT!" when they fucking do not.

Less than half of American? You could fill thier population into the smallest state rofl