Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Bodonius]

The world gets more and more crazy. I used to be against guns, now i want it legal since right now only the bad people have free access to guns.

[Ghostpanther]

Given that I said "you all", a post by anyone in this thread is fair game.

Here you go.

What part of " I did. But if you want more of a response, you need to be more specific.

The only fantasy about glorifying killing anyone is in your head. And once again, be specific when I have ever did such. But be careful, race discussions are not allowed on here and I will avoid those by design." Even hints of what you said I posted? None at all.

I think at this point, you are not worth the time and effort. Time proves all things and it certainly has in your case.

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The world gets more and more crazy. I used to be against guns, now i want it legal since right now only the bad people have free access to guns.

Good point. You have came to the position of reason.

[Zython]

What part of " I did. But if you want more of a response, you need to be more specific.

The only fantasy about glorifying killing anyone is in your head. And once again, be specific when I have ever did such. But be careful, race discussions are not allowed on here and I will avoid those by design." Even hints of what you said I posted? None at all.

I think at this point, you are not worth the time and effort. Time proves all things and it certainly has in your case.

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Good point. You have came to the position of reason.

I mean, I was more referring to the meme post in the first quote that was deleted. But you already knew that.

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Seriously, I’m not even a full gun control supporter (I think any gun control legislation should also mandate state disarmament). But question the culture and positions of gun psychos who dream of murdering minorities, and suddenly everyone starts screaming at me.

[Zan15]

Link a post I made which said such nonsense. You won't because it does not exist.

Keep making such ridiculous comments and I will use the only other option I have on this forum. I desire discussions with reasonable adults.

No you don't, you want discussions with people who will agree with you and not press you on facts.
The horror of actually having to deal with being wrong.

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The world gets more and more crazy. I used to be against guns, now i want it legal since right now only the bad people have free access to guns.

please, its not easy getting an illegal gun. Stop exaggerating.

[Elegiac]

Hey so how about the gun lobby in the US about to lose their biggest political arm? Cheers to that.

I do think this is a watershed moment for gun control in the near future, however. It will take quite some time for that infrastructure to be built up again should it be dismantled, allowing for a build up of momentum in the intervening period.

Assuming the GOP doesn't go all Ronald Reagan in response to the protests and suddenly declare gun control a good thing because people start arming themselves against police brutality.

[Zan15]

Defend that Home!!
Another win for gun owners protecting themselves?


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-gun-hand.html

Man, 40, is shot dead by Arizona cop at point blank range after he answered the door with a gun in his hand after a neighbor made noise complaint, but his girlfriend said they were playing video games

Arizona man Ryan Whitaker, 40, was fatally shot by a Phoenix police officer responding to a noise complaint at his home on May 21 around 10pm

Whitaker answered the door with a 9mm gun in his hand but as he tried to put it down he was shot at least twice in the back and died
His girlfriend said they were making salsa and playing video games at the time

Cops were responding to noise complaint about potential domestic violence

She said he answered the door with a gun because people knocked on his door in the middle of the night on two occasions and it made them concerned

Whitaker's family says the officers were quick to use force even though he was being submissive after realizing cops were at the door

[PickleballAce]

I thought we were kind of upset about the whole "cops executing innocent people" thing...?

Kind of seems like the thing a trashy cunt would take joy in. To be clear I'm not calling you a trashy cunt or anything.

[Stormdash]

Defend that Home!!
Another win for gun owners protecting themselves?


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-gun-hand.html

Man, 40, is shot dead by Arizona cop at point blank range after he answered the door with a gun in his hand after a neighbor made noise complaint, but his girlfriend said they were playing video games

Arizona man Ryan Whitaker, 40, was fatally shot by a Phoenix police officer responding to a noise complaint at his home on May 21 around 10pm

Whitaker answered the door with a 9mm gun in his hand but as he tried to put it down he was shot at least twice in the back and died
His girlfriend said they were making salsa and playing video games at the time

Cops were responding to noise complaint about potential domestic violence

She said he answered the door with a gun because people knocked on his door in the middle of the night on two occasions and it made them concerned

Whitaker's family says the officers were quick to use force even though he was being submissive after realizing cops were at the door

The "police misconduct" argument for

*checks notes*

expanding the role of police dramatically as increased gun control requires.

deep thinking.

[Zan15]

I thought we were kind of upset about the whole "cops executing innocent people" thing...?

Kind of seems like the thing a trashy cunt would take joy in. To be clear I'm not calling you a trashy cunt or anything.

so far there is only one person in this entire thread who takes joy out of linking stories where people are killed.
He's done it over and over again in the name of the 2A.

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The "police misconduct" argument for

*checks notes*

expanding the role of police dramatically as increased gun control requires.

deep thinking.

How would the police roll change at all?
They wouldn't be required to act in anyway different than they do today.
Maybe kill a bunch of less innocent people and maybe not use quite as much excessive force would be a great start?

[Stormdash]

so far there is only one person in this entire thread who takes joy out of linking stories where people are killed.
He's done it over and over again in the name of the 2A.

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How would the police roll change at all?
They wouldn't be required to act in anyway different than they do today.
Maybe kill a bunch of less innocent people and maybe not use quite as much excessive force would be a great start?

You might want to sit down for this...

... when you make more things illegal, the police have more to do.

[Zan15]

You might want to sit down for this...

... when you make more things illegal, the police have more to do.

again what roll change?

"expanding the role of police dramatically as increased gun control requires."

Guns are currently very illegal for a lot of people and a lot of reasons.
Their roll would not change, it would be to enforce the law.
They might require more cops which would have its benefits, not sure you would be against this ??


A roll change would be them flipping burgers during their shift.

[Ghostpanther]

This case of supposedly self defense, brings up some important points....



It will vary according to the state as to the law, but personally I would never shoot at a criminal ( unless they happen to be shooting at me as they fled ) as they where fleeing or attempting to steal my car or any other property , if I was not in it or faced with a immediate threat from the criminal.

I am not sure of all the states laws, but in Ohio, you do not have the right to shoot someone based solely on protecting property. Of course, if that property is inside your home when you are also, that is a different scenario. What do you guys think?

[Elegiac]

You might want to sit down for this...

... when you make more things illegal, the police have more to do.

Not really. If we stopped having police respond to situations where they aren't wanted or merited they'd have more time for cracking down on gun nuts. That's an issue of reallocation.

And besides, we don't need more police to enforce things like insanely high taxes on ammunition to the point it becomes unaffordable to most people. Or regulating the domestic firearm production industry into insolvency. Things which are markedly more feasible should the gun lobby lose the NRA.

[Stormdash]

Not really. If we stopped having police respond to situations where they aren't wanted or merited they'd have more time for cracking down on gun nuts. That's an issue of reallocation.

And besides, we don't need more police to enforce things like insanely high taxes on ammunition to the point it becomes unaffordable to most people. Or regulating the domestic firearm production industry into insolvency. Things which are markedly more feasible should the gun lobby lose the NRA.

We shouldn't make what law gets or doesn't get enforced the discretion of law enforcement. If you don't want the cops showing up for a call, make the thing itself... not a call. Remember, Eric Garner didn't get stopped by police because he was black, he got stopped by police because NYS wanted people arrested for selling loose cigarettes and getting around their usurious cigarette tax.

[Elegiac]

We shouldn't make what law gets or doesn't get enforced the discretion of law enforcement. If you don't want the cops showing up for a call, make the thing itself... not a call. Remember, Eric Garner didn't get stopped by police because he was black, he got stopped by police because NYS wanted people arrested for selling loose cigarettes and getting around their usurious cigarette tax.

You do realise there are other classes of public servant or social services professionals besides klan members in police cosplay, right?

And before you start up with the "but what if the drunk person or domestic disturbance involves a gun" nonsense - well we're back to that chicken and egg problem of America having too many guns, it being a known fact, but any action to address it is denied based on the desire of some dead slaveowners wanting a backup in case Americans elected an abolitionist government. What you're doing here is not making a defense of the Second Amendment or of generalised gun ownership; it's in fact pointing out that police brutality, white supremacy, and gun ownership in the United States are and always have been inherently linked. Gun culture is encouraged because it's profitable for manufacturers, because enables the formation of groups designed to carry out extralegal acts of oppression like the KKK, and because the resulting escalation of every crime to potential lethality is convenient for justifying large numbers of heavily armed law enforcement ostensibly "for the public's protection".

The mask was pulled off in the reactions of the 2A crowd to Trump's secret police in Portland. That amendment protects no liberty and secures no welfare, and should be thrown out along with the "as punishment for a crime" exception to the Thirteenth Amendment.

Nor do I give a shit about the inevitable "well good luck changing it, because you need blah blah number of states" - yeah, we get the political structure of the US is set up to protect certain interests and y'all are incapable of assessing something's merits beyond its legality; which, mind you, is one of the laziest forms of intellectual position imaginable. Imagine being unable to call something good or bad unless a bunch of grody old judges and politicians deems it to be so.

[Ghostpanther]

Shootings in New York City, which has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, have more than doubled from this same time last year....

...https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-dayli...year-over-year

New York Police Department statistics show a nearly 137% increase in the number of shootings that occurred over the three-month period specifically during the daylight hours of 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. From May through July 2020, 168 incidents were reported, while during the same time period in 2019 the number of shootings reported was 71

[Noxx79]

Shootings in New York City, which has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, have more than doubled from this same time last year....

...https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-dayli...year-over-year

New York Police Department statistics show a nearly 137% increase in the number of shootings that occurred over the three-month period specifically during the daylight hours of 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. From May through July 2020, 168 incidents were reported, while during the same time period in 2019 the number of shootings reported was 71

And concealed and open carry is forced to be legal in Kansas City, with Missouri having some of the laxest gun laws in the country, and were having one of the worst violent years on record.


It’s almost as if you’re arguing in bad faith and correlation isn’t causation.

[Zan15]

Shootings in New York City, which has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, have more than doubled from this same time last year....

...https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-dayli...year-over-year

New York Police Department statistics show a nearly 137% increase in the number of shootings that occurred over the three-month period specifically during the daylight hours of 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. From May through July 2020, 168 incidents were reported, while during the same time period in 2019 the number of shootings reported was 71

And yet several states listed in the top 5 for gun violence are also on the top of the list as "most gun friendly" with the least strict gun laws.
Not cities, whole states.


Meanwhile ignoring the fact that one year a trend not make.....

Also you outright ignored the fact that since the increase in regulations against guns started crime stats in relation to guns are down substantially from 1980-1990-2000+.

in 2017 they were the third lowest in the country per capita.

But hey keep pushing your agenda.

When a 5 dollar stock drops to 5 cents, but it goes up 500% tomorrow.....you know that makes the stock worth 30 cents right? You know you will still be down $4.70 or
94%..

By your logic you would be claiming victory and successful investment!

[Rubon]

Every illegal firearm also came from a once legal source.

There just aren't a whole lot of people with the private industrial manufacturing base to build weapons in their basements.

Gun bans have a smaller effect than they would otherwise when they're only removed from a part of the country - unless for instance New York secedes and becomes its own country with its own stringent border checks.

[Ghostpanther]

Every illegal firearm also came from a once legal source.

There just aren't a whole lot of people with the private industrial manufacturing base to build weapons in their basements.

Gun bans have a smaller effect than they would otherwise when they're only removed from a part of the country - unless for instance New York secedes and becomes its own country with its own stringent border checks.

Generally. There are some which have been made however. But does not matter. With well over 300 million firearms in the US, how do you propose they disappear? And if it was was even remotely possible to get rid of them, those who would not have access to them or the physically weaker person become easy victims. Because the criminals are going to get them. And if they are attacking say a handicap or elderly person, they do not even need one.