How do you control a Toxic Community like World of Warcraft or most other MMOs have?

[Elbob]

While damage meters can be used for toxic behavior, they are also an excellent tool for improving your own play. I would support removing the ability to see other players dps but I like to see my own numbers.

Most of the toxicity I see is in the M+ community. Remove M+ problem solved

you often need other players to compare yourself to too make use of them

[Amsden]

you often need other players to compare yourself to too make use of them

I suppose, I usually compare against my sims. It's not perfect by any means, but it gives me something to aim at. My damage as a mage compared with a hunter or rogue is pretty meaningless.

[T-34]

damage meters are genuinely one of the worst things you can have in a MMO,as far as making the community worse goes

The community hasn't become more toxic, just that the toxic players are more vocal now.
With the advent of damage meters, simulationcraft, more advanced guides and latest Raider IO the good players, who before had to carry the toxic bad players, because it was more difficult to filter them out, now can to bigger a extent filter out the toxic, lazy bad players.

This has resulted in an explosion of complaining from that huge cesspool of toxic bad players that now have to play together with other toxic players and of course don't achieve anything in the game any more.

And instead of getting better, which a toxic bad player is unable to, they complain, the only thing a toxic bad player is good at, in the vain hope that Blizzard will force the good players to carry them again.

But the genie can't be put back in the bottle. We are free!
So my advice to all the complainers in this thread is: Get better at the game, accept you are bad or find another game.

[Lolites]

That is incorrect. Not until Name changes and server transfer did you see how toxic people were. Early on there were always one or two and you knew who they were. Forget about pugging and there was no LFG so reputations mattered.

from my own experience i can tell you that is a pile of bullshit...
i started in march 2005 though, so maybe this time without toxicity you experienced was in the first few months on US realms or what...

- - - Updated - - -

The community hasn't become more toxic, just that the toxic players are more vocal now.

i would say this is as close as we can get to truth

[Jinpachi]

Want to curb toxicity? Start adding incentives to behave. As in lootable corpses outside of town. Non consensual pvp where you can actually lose your gear. UO, in its prime, had toxic players, but they were generally quickly dealt with by the player base. When there's no consequence to being a dickhead, they tend to show up more. When there are real and lasting consequences to bad behavior, it fixes itself for the most part.

[Elbob]

I suppose, I usually compare against my sims. It's not perfect by any means, but it gives me something to aim at. My damage as a mage compared with a hunter or rogue is pretty meaningless.

I guess I see it as more comparing myself to some one of the same spec in a raid, its hard to compare to logs cause things differ from raid grp to raid grp

[cparle87]

The devs are constantly being constrained by addons and i don't understand why they don't just shout "Enough!".

Just the opposite, actually. Devs had admitted they've been able to create more difficult, chaotic, and crazy mechanics in raids because they know developers will make addons to make them easier. WoD Archimonde was a prime example.

[Tronski]

I've had nothing but positive experiences in FFXIV since I started playing a few weeks ago. It's actually been pretty wild. I've seen dungeon runs grind to a halt so the group can explain basic core class concepts to someone new, even. I think something as simple outlawing 3rd party damage meters goes a long way toward keeping people more or less on the same team.

This. FFXIV is almost toxic free because "addons" that measure performance aren't directly supported, and it is even a banable offense to harrass other people for their performance, especially if you base it on said performance-measuring third party program.

You have pro's and cons to everything, the question is which you value more.

I wouldn't mind at all if all meters where disabled altogether.

- - - Updated - - -

Just the opposite, actually. Devs had admitted they've been able to create more difficult, chaotic, and crazy mechanics in raids because they know developers will make addons to make them easier. WoD Archimonde was a prime example.

That's arguably not a good thing. If the fights are so crazy and complex you need custom built tools/programs to help you navigate them, then the whole point is moot.
You might as well ban addons and give fights less complex mechanics again to achieve the same difficulty.

[deenman]

damage meters are genuinely one of the worst things you can have in a MMO,as far as making the community worse goes

i rly hate it when games dont give me a damage meter,like diablo 3...i wanna know what the heck is doing my damage and how much of it etc

[Tronski]

Why is that? Its a great way of seeing you and your teams performance, and it helps a lot during progression.


Only way I would understand someone disliking damage meters is if you play lfr with the intent of tagging boss and afking, and being scared to get called out for it.

You would be called out on being afk anyway. Activity is visible. Same goes for one-button play.

In FFXIV it's banable to call people out on their performance based on numbers, and the game is literally free of toxicity.

That's not a coincidence.

[deenman]

This. FFXIV is almost toxic free because "addons" that measure performance aren't directly supported, and it is even a banable offense to harrass other people for their performance, especially if you base it on said performance-measuring third party program.

You have pro's and cons to everything, the question is which you value more.

I wouldn't mind at all if all meters where disabled altogether.

- - - Updated - - -



That's arguably not a good thing. If the fights are so crazy and complex you need custom built tools/programs to help you navigate them, then the whole point is moot.
You might as well ban addons and give fights less complex mechanics again to achieve the same difficulty.

jesus the stuff about FF sounds so disturbing...so if im a raid leader and we wipe and wipe to a boss because some players performance is crap and you call em out....you can get baned?LOL,well i guess in that game its the devs that are toxic haha

- - - Updated - - -

You would be called out on being afk anyway. Activity is visible. Same goes for one-button play.

In FFXIV it's banable to call people out on their performance based on numbers, and the game is literally free of toxicity.

That's not a coincidence.

honestly what you are saying about ff14 makes it sound extremly toxic,you actualy convinced me to not even try it LOL

[Tronski]

i rly hate it when games dont give me a damage meter,like diablo 3...i wanna know what the heck is doing my damage and how much of it etc

This is the worst argument for meters ever.
If you really care, then you can run sims to calculate everything (or someone else does it and write a guide) and then practice in game. If shit dies faster than before, you are doing it right.

- - - Updated - - -

jesus the stuff about FF sounds so disturbing...so if im a raid leader and we wipe and wipe to a boss because some players performance is crap and you call em out....you can get baned?LOL,well i guess in that game its the devs that are toxic haha

- - - Updated - - -



honestly what you are saying about ff14 makes it sound extremly toxic,you actualy convinced me to not even try it LOL

You are obviously allowed to remove underperformers from your group, but you aren't allowed to harrass based on numbers. Addons exist as third party programs to let you measure. If you raid in a guild then everyone usually accept the usage of meters, but it does strictly not affect the casuals.
But you seem like one of those guys we don't need in FFXIV either.

[deenman]

This is the worst argument for meters ever.
If you really care, then you can run sims to calculate everything (or someone else does it and write a guide) and then practice in game. If shit dies faster than before, you are doing it right.

- - - Updated - - -



But you are one of those guys, so I guess we don't need you in FFXIV either.

yeah,im one of those guys that cares to perform atleast well enough to kill stuff in an mmo about killing stuff,the audacity

- - - Updated - - -

This is the worst argument for meters ever.
If you really care, then you can run sims to calculate everything (or someone else does it and write a guide) and then practice in game. If shit dies faster than before, you are doing it right.

- - - Updated - - -



You are obviously allowed to remove underperformers from your group, but you aren't allowed to harrass based on numbers. Addons exist as third party programs.
But you seem like one of those guys we don't need in FFXIV either.

so im allowed to remove them,just not to inform them about their performance so they can improve?basicaly EXTREME TOXICITY,gotcha

[deenman]

So you're arguing against that its easier to spot someones performance with an addon like Details?

Is it bannable to talk about a raiders performance in FFXIV? Why is that? What if one of my raiders is underperforming and
we tell him he's going to be swapped out for another raider for progressions sakes, will they ban the entire raid-group then or just the RL?

Sounds ridiculous if anything, maybe people should play single player games if they get offended by other players talking with them.

The way you're talking it sounds like FFXIV is the more toxic game.

Its not even a PLAYER issue here,yeah plenty of people in wow and other mmo's are easily offended....but whats insane about what this guy is saying is that the actual DEVS of the game would do something like this....i really hope he is exagerating...maybe people get banned for extreme levels of harassment and not simply for pointing out they are underperforming..i hope atleast

[Super Kami Dende]

Wow has been toxic for a long time, but it wasnt always like this. I believe that when Name changes and Server transfers began, it gave players the ability to escape their reputation. Is there a way to encourage less toxic behavior or punish toxic players?

Just curious what people think.

Only bad players suffered from bad reputations though. Myself and my Guild were well known toxic People in Vanilla/TBC but People still joined our groups because they knew they would get to clear content.

[T-34]

You would be called out on being afk anyway. Activity is visible. Same goes for one-button play.

In FFXIV it's banable to call people out on their performance based on numbers, and the game is literally free of toxicity.

That's not a coincidence.

That game sounds like heaven for the toxic, lazy, entitled bad wow player.

[Super Kami Dende]

In FFXIV it's banable to call people out on their performance based on numbers, and the game is literally free of toxicity.

That's not a coincidence.

Well its not a coincidence because it isn't true. Most anecdotal "FFXIV is not toxic" posts come from People talking about low level dungeons and such. Savage and EX can be very Toxic.

[T-34]

Well its not a coincidence because it isn't true. Most anecdotal "FFXIV is not toxic" posts come from People talking about low level dungeons and such. Savage and EX can be very Toxic.

Ha, it was too good to be true. So heaven for the toxic, lazy bad players doesn't exist after all. Like in any other game and human activity the toxic bad and lazy are shunned by normal people.

[Fathr]

from my own experience i can tell you that is a pile of bullshit...
i started in march 2005 though, so maybe this time without toxicity you experienced was in the first few months on US realms or what...

- - - Updated - - -



i would say this is as close as we can get to truth

I for one did not experience any toxic behaviour starting out in vanilla, so the fact is it must be server related. So each player will have a different experience hence it can never be compared truly. I for one might have choosen a server with lots of toxic behavour but luckily I didnt.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Easy stop rewarding bad behavior. And strictly enforce the rules. Lastly don’t cave or pander to critics. Expect it and decide if a game is better with good people enjoying themselves. Or drama where only a handful do. The rest just rubbernecking because they can’t do what they planned to ever because assholes keep being enabled.