Blizzard screws the Loyalists over in Shadowlands

[Zeek Daniels]

im confused. i thought theres like a cut scene alluding to the fact that loyalists will have more to do in shadowlands. Like doesnt somthing happen during the prepatch with loyalists or is that scene already in BFA?

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

nice strawman. Come back when you have a legitimate argument.

I didn't know we were having an argument. What makes Anduin a villain to you? And please don't start with faction pride nonsense.

[Mardux]

Hmmm, honestly not heavy handed enough. They should try harder to prove that lawful good is the only option.

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To be fair, he is trying to create lawful good borg. Its more and more obvious that he is center of new hivemind society.

Doesn't help that he willingly destroyed any hope of peace prior to the war he allowed to start in Arathi. Then when he got calia killed, he (with a little bit of help) made her into a fofsaken.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

To be fair, he is trying to create lawful good borg. Its more and more obvious that he is center of new hivemind society.

You're thinking of Yrel, Anduin hasn't done anything of the sort.

[Triggered Fridgekin]

All this aside that's a gross beard.

Player agency and the ability to create your own adventure will always have limitations in an MMO because there are clearly defined guidelines which has to include everyone. Choosing Saurfang or Sylvanas is as meaningful as choosing Aldor or Scryers where there's an illusion of choice and some flavor for making that choice but in the end everyone is still on what are essentially rails to get you from point A to point B.

What would the solution have been if Loyalists were given their own story post-Sylvanas? Become exiles who live next to the Broken in a swamp to be left out of main content?

If you want that kind of freedom, looking for it in an MMO really isn't the place to be unless it's a totally open sandbox.

[Kumorii]

im confused. i thought theres like a cut scene alluding to the fact that loyalists will have more to do in shadowlands. Like doesnt somthing happen during the prepatch with loyalists or is that scene already in BFA?

yes the loyalist ending after the loss at orgrimmar alludes to more things to come if I remember correctly.

[Combatbutler]

They will throw them a bone in six years or so, when they are doing the Sylvanas redemption.

[Pandragon]

Lets be honest here. Did anyone actually believe anything was going to come from this or the N'Zoth quest?

[Dazmalak]

I agree, OP. Let us be evil as hell and commit war crimes all day in fantasy land. Let us stand and die on the hills we decide to defend. Sometimes spitting on and teabagging other players in PvP just isn't enough.

Serving evil blindly in a video game is kind of the point. Whether it's due to nihilism or hatred, or just to stir the pot to keep things interesting, villains and bad people have to exist, otherwise there's no point to the game or story to be told since there wouldn't be an opposition to the good guys. It's not about logic or common sense. You do it for the lolz, for the hell of it, or just to be antagonistic and contrary for its own sake.

It's fine that it doesn't appeal to most people, but something a little more conclusive for the loyal players ending would have been nice. At least give my forsaken death knight a reason he shouldn't want to slaughter all of humanity and follow Sylvanas into the Shadowlands to cause more havoc.

[SoundOfGuns]

I don't want to be the asshole, even if this comes natural to me, buut...

Let's be real here. 90% ... not all of them, but 90% ...where just into Sylvanas undead elven body and that's absolutely everything there was. The Video argues a great deal on how this is oh so mean and oh so lacking any logic that the loyalists would lose their allegiance over Sylvanas essentially selling them to whatever greater power she serves, even though she clearly showed she does not care for anyone. Not the Horde, not the loyalists, not anyone.

...and that makes it not very logical either for your character to follow her under these circumstances to the degree demanded here, that her words and actions would NOT deter you from following her further.

To follow her beyond what she did and openly said there you don't have to be just loyal to her, but obsessed i feel. And in a death cult. Literally.

The way Blizzard handled this is stupid, especially considering the loyalist end-quest you guys got. It makes little sense, but its also not as outragous and not as big of a logical jump as the video complains about.

Its simply sad that Blizzard did abandon the player agency as quickly as it came though. But... ...and i say this fully aware that i said this about BFA which TOTALLY NOT BIT ME IN THE ASS AT ALL... ...give it time. Maybe there is some... ...larger logic behind this still and Sylvanas still has something for you. After all the Death is not the end and Nathanos will likely end up in the Maw.

[Mardux]

I didn't know we were having an argument. What makes Anduin a villain to you? And please don't start with faction pride nonsense.

Because you're obviously confused:

"Argument noun [C or U] (REASON)

B2

a reason or reasons why you support or oppose an idea or suggestion, or the process of explaining these reasons"

[Arrashi]

You're thinking of Yrel, Anduin hasn't done anything of the sort.

Actually anduin is much much worse. Yrel is just a generic fash, but anduin can make void elves and lightforged be friends by his sheer radiating friendship. Even horde leaders are slowly being brainwashed into his service. And then he will have his dream - a world of perfect blandness.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Because you're obviously confused:

"Argument noun [C or U] (REASON)

B2

a reason or reasons why you support or oppose an idea or suggestion, or the process of explaining these reasons"

So I'll take it you don't have any reason to think Anduin is a villain. What weird thing to even bring up in a thread about Sylvanus.

[Mardux]

That whole arc was done because people were saying that this was just Garrosh 2.0.

I think the choice between Windrunner or Saurfang was a last minute implementation and that the end result was always going to remain the same. On reflection, it was a pointless thing to implement as Windrunner was always going to betray the Horde and the Horde would work together to try and track her down.

If you had paid attention to the story, you'd have seen she was betrayed by the horde, not the other way around.

[Enter Name Here]

maybe that choice was utilized as a vote to decide where to go with her story. that means the losing side was always supposed to get nothing.

[Mirishka]

This is what light a fire in my belly.
When the ending of BFA faction war happened I was pissed off at the mediocre writing, that Sylvannas' cry "You are all nothing." suddenly turns the whole Horde on her. But then I was like, "well, what's happened, happened I made my choices and when the time comes I'll stand where I stood" since I played the forsaken loyalist.
And then this happens...Blizzard can go faf itself with its ineptitude and creative bankruptcy.
Esecially when they brag about "it's an RPG".

They said months ago, like late last year I think, that the loyalty stuff ends with BFA and moving forward Sylvanas was basically against all of us. I take it you missed the memo?

[Tanaria]

I'm not really interested in Sylvanas, but the characters where I chose to side with her, I did so not because of her body, but because of lore based reason that I felt worked.
I sided with her on my Blood Elf Hunter (being a Farstrider), Blood Elf Warrior (same reason as the Hunter) and my Blood Elf Death Knight (both undead Thalassian Elves.)

I think the overall introduction of the loyalist/traitor arc was utterly pointless and was a lastminute.com implementation, because people voiced that this was just a Garrosh MoP 2.0 feel, except we had HM Tauren, Nightborne and other races, this time round.

[Mardux]

So I'll take it you don't have any reason to think Anduin is a villain. What weird thing to even bring up in a thread about Sylvanus.

I already stated it. I can't help that you can't read it. I am not i licensed teacher, nor am I tutor of any sort. Its not my job to teach you how to read.

[Mehrunes]

im confused. i thought theres like a cut scene alluding to the fact that loyalists will have more to do in shadowlands. Like doesnt somthing happen during the prepatch with loyalists or is that scene already in BFA?

yes the loyalist ending after the loss at orgrimmar alludes to more things to come if I remember correctly.

She only told the loyalist PC that they will understand her the next time we meet her. And since Sylvanas is going to have an exposition dump moment in Shadowlands, that would fulfill this bit of foreshadowing. In a manner not exclusive to the loyalists, because that choice never really existed in Blizzard's mind as it was just a sad attempt at a smokescreen against the criticism that they are doing Garrosh 2.0 (which they ultimately flat out confirmed). Like they said at Blizzcon, the loyalist/traitor paths are not going to matter in Shadowlands at all.

[Gaidax]

Blizzard writters naively assumed that the Sylvanas' Loyalists, when confronted with her confirmation that they themselves, too, meant nothing to her, would have a change of heart and start questioning their allegiances.

Do not underestimate WoW simps...

Infracted.
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Other than that, I am not sure what exactly they expected? They were told to act like "goodie two shoes" rebels by Sylv herself in the send off, so they can fap off their "sleeper agent, secret loyalist still" fantasy until the inevitable 9.2/9.3 when we will reach her and start gettin' some answers there.

For all we know they might pull a Kerrigan with her yet with the loyalists getting a smug parade of honor as people who seen "the ultimate truth".