Does Arthas deserve to be in the Maw?

[Tripzzz]

Apparently some people think Arthas was the most evil character in the story. Yes, he did plenty of fucked up stuff, but chronicle 3 established a noble goal for his actions.

"A world ruled by the undead would have no more injustice, no more wars, no more mortal flaws. Perhaps most importantly to the Lich King, he believed his Scourge would be far more capable of defending Azeroth against threats that would try to conquer it. He had observed the awakening of C'Thun and the Burning Legion's attempts to launch other attacks on Azeroth. Neither the demons nor the powers of the Void would rest until they controlled the world. A fractured world, constantly beset by skirmishes between the Alliance and the Horde, simply would not be prepared for another incursion." - Warcraft Chronicle vol. 3, page 172

If people can justify Slyvanus' betrayal and atrocities by believing/hoping she is doing them for some greater good rather than out of selfish fear for her own judgement in the afterlife, making her worthy of redemption, why can't Arthas also be redeemed as well? His actions in Stratholme weren't for the sake of being evil, he thought it was the only way to stop the spread of undeath. If Slyvanus' mass murder of the Night elves can be "justified" by her end goal to "free" us, shouldn't Arthas' mass murder of the High/Blood elves also be "justified" to combat the Legion and the Void?

[Velerios]

But she's female, so it's totally justified. Sorry, but that's the only reason i can think of right now.

[Combatbutler]

If we go by the current metric, no mortal boss we have killed so far deserves it.

[naeblis495]

The chronicles don't mean shit anymore , it's from "the Titan's point of view"

Arthas himself never said anything about all that bullcrap, he wanted to kill everything and everyone and loved every seconds of it.

Anyway , both deserve the maw .

[Tripzzz]

The chronicles don't mean shit anymore , it's from "the Titan's point of view"

Arthas himself never said anything about all that bullcrap, he wanted to kill everything and everyone and loved every seconds of it.

Anyway , both deserve the maw .

That Titan PoV is such a bullshit cop out. Who said that again, was it Danuser?? If one gets redeemed because "greater good" while the other doesn't, it won't make any sense. Either they both get redeemed or they both deserve suffer in the Maw. Danuser can't let his waifu get special treatment.

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LOL, yep it was Danuser who said it was Titan PoV at blizzcon 2019.

[tommyhil622]

I think if Arthas wasn't stopped, he deserved to be in the maw, honestly in the large scope of things he barely did anything at all. Compared to something like the burning legion for instance.

[Tripzzz]

The chronicles don't mean shit anymore , it's from "the Titan's point of view"

Arthas himself never said anything about all that bullcrap, he wanted to kill everything and everyone and loved every seconds of it.

Anyway , both deserve the maw .

Also Arthas fighting against the Legion is canon in WC3. That's why he betrayed the Dreadlords. He talked about the emerald nightmare in a book as well, so he did know about it.

[Monster Hunter]

Apparently some people think Arthas was the most evil character in the story. Yes, he did plenty of fucked up stuff, but chronicle 3 established a noble goal for his actions.

"A world ruled by the undead would have no more injustice, no more wars, no more mortal flaws. Perhaps most importantly to the Lich King, he believed his Scourge would be far more capable of defending Azeroth against threats that would try to conquer it. He had observed the awakening of C'Thun and the Burning Legion's attempts to launch other attacks on Azeroth. Neither the demons nor the powers of the Void would rest until they controlled the world. A fractured world, constantly beset by skirmishes between the Alliance and the Horde, simply would not be prepared for another incursion." - Warcraft Chronicle vol. 3, page 172



If people can justify Slyvanus' betrayal and atrocities by believing/hoping she is doing them for some greater good rather than out of selfish fear for her own judgement in the afterlife, making her worthy of redemption, why can't Arthas also be redeemed as well? His actions in Stratholme weren't for the sake of being evil, he thought it was the only way to stop the spread of undeath. If Slyvanus' mass murder of the Night elves can be "justified" by her end goal to "free" us, shouldn't Arthas' mass murder of the High/Blood elves also be "justified" to combat the Legion and the Void?

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Why is the image I put not working???

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/wo...20200827215356

I'd say no. The maw is ment for those Completly irredeemable it dosnt matter how much bad they did, what matters is if there capable of reforming, arthas ultimately was a good guy who became a bad guy because he followed his good intentions blindly. Hes just an example of the old saying "the road to damnation is paved with good intentions"

That's the big takeaway from the uther cinematic, he was never sent to the maw by the arbiter, he was never judged, uther stepped in and threw him into the maw without judgment.

[Hekazi]

Arthas technically does not deserve the Maw, because he's been under the influence of the helm of domination. Ner'zhul deserves it, if you deem that the Lich King's actions can't be redeemed.

[McNeil]

No he does not. And here's why:

[Venziir]

"But he had a noble goal" - that's such a terrible, terrible excuse. One used by basically every murderous and genocidal fuckhead to have lived ever.

[Varodoc]

No. At his core Arthas was fundamentally good. He wanted to protect his people and destroy evil. Even as the Lich King, he wanted to unite Azeroth against the Lich King, while at the same time forge a world without any war or injustice. He is 100% redeemable, and was meant to go to Revendreth... before Uther and Devos interfered with the natural order, of course.

[Venziir]

Arthas technically does not deserve the Maw, because he's been under the influence of the helm of domination. Ner'zhul deserves it, if you deem that the Lich King's actions can't be redeemed.

The second Arthas doned the helmet, he expelled Ner'zhul. It's not like he stopped being an evil overlord then....

[Tyze]

Who deserve to be in the maw if not Arthas? I ain't saying he does but, what would it take?

Edit: didn't realise that there is only one Shadowlands.
So yeah maybe Arthas didn't really deserve it.

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Arthas technically does not deserve the Maw, because he's been under the influence of the helm of domination. Ner'zhul deserves it, if you deem that the Lich King's actions can't be redeemed.

That's true. However, his actions leading to that was his own intentions

[Venziir]

No. At his core Arthas was fundamentally good. He wanted to protect his people and destroy evil. Even as the Lich King, he wanted to unite Azeroth against the Lich King, while at the same time forge a world without any war or injustice. He is 100% redeemable, and was meant to go to Revendreth... before Uther and Devos interfered with the natural order, of course.

Fundamentally good? One of the very first things we ever learn about Arthas is, that he was a vindictive, spoiled princeling. "Vengeance cannot be a part of what we must do. If we allow our passions to turn to bloodlust, then we will become as vile as the Orcs".

[Varodoc]

Fundamentally good? One of the very first things we ever learn about Arthas is, that he was a vindictive, spoiled princeling. "Vengeance cannot be a part of what we must do. If we allow our passions to turn to bloodlust, then we will become as vile as the Orcs".

Yes, fundamentally good. That's why he still had noble goals as the Lich King (ending all wars, protecting the world from the evil Legion). Read the OP, which quotes the Chronicles, a canon book written by Blizzard Entertainment itself.

Vengeance is a human emotion. Everyone has felt the desire for revenge in the past. To deny that is to be hypocritical. Indeed, even Uther ends up being consumed by vengenace.

[Venziir]

Yes, fundamentally good. That's why he still had noble goals as the Lich King (ending all wars, protecting the world from the evil Legion). Read the OP, which quotes the Chronicles, a canon book written by Blizzard Entertainment itself.

Nothing says "noble" like litterally killing EVERYTHING then raising them as foul, soulless, mindless beings.... If that's noble, then Sylvanas' goal of killing everyone and having the Jailer munch on their souls is equally noble. Hell, Sargeras just wanted to kill all the titans and raise a demonic army to prevent more Void Lords and void infestations - very noble again!

[Varodoc]

Nothing says "noble" like litterally killing EVERYTHING then raising them as foul, soulless, mindless beings.... If that's noble, then Sylvanas' goal of killing everyone and having the Jailer munch on their souls is equally noble. Hell, Sargeras just wanted to kill all the titans and raise a demonic army to prevent more Void Lords and void infestations - very noble again!

I said "NOBLE GOALS", not "NOBLE ACTIONS". This is the second time I have to say this.

Sylvanas has no noble goal, no ulterior motive, she is a nihilist who believes it is foolish to cling to hope and life, and wants to break the cosmos, which she perceives as cruel. Arthas' goal were objectively noble, he wanted to end all wars and unite the world against the Legion. He simply went about it the wrong way.

Kael'thas and Garrosh committed countless atrocities, Garrosh for reasons that were worse than Arthas, yet they both went to Revendreth. The story is clear, and agrees with me.

[Tripzzz]

Who deserve to be in the maw if not Arthas? I ain't saying he does but, what would it take?

Hard to say, since evil characters like Putress and Stillwater never dealt damage on a massive scale compared to someone like Sargeras who had a "noble intention" to stop the Void Lords from corrupting the universe. But the Maws existence implies that some people are really that evil.

[Venziir]

I said "NOBLE GOALS", not "NOBLE ACTIONS". This is the second time I have to say this.

Sylvanas has no noble goal, no ulterior motive, she is a nihilist who believes it is foolish to cling to hope and life, and wants to break the cosmos, which she perceives as cruel. Arthas' goal were objectively noble, he wanted to end all wars and unite the world against the Legion. He simply went about it the wrong way.

Kael'thas and Garrosh committed countless atrocities, Garrosh for reasons that were worse than Arthas, yet they both went to Revendreth. The story is clear, and agrees with me.

The way to hell is paved with good intentions. Welp, it's always good to be reminded as to why I had you on ignore....

Infracted.