Remembering the BFA dumpster fire start to finish.

[Tronski]

I'm really not in the mood to further argue with you over this, Island Expeditions and Warfronts are content, they were built so that players engage with them and presented as new feature for BfA.

This is such a pointless thing to argue over.

This argument ignores that WoD was essentially not a finished expansion, the expansion wasn't supposed to launch with that little content.
What you're describing was a side effect of that, not really the original intent.

Raidlogging was already popular in Wotlk, Cata and Post 5.0 MoP, WoD just had nothing besides what previous expansions already added.

I guess you mean besides Player Housing, mission table and World Quests?

Apart from that, you're right. There was little new, but everything was better than before - Leveling was easier and more varied, Pvp templates, Classes were the most balanced they have ever been, Skills and talents were in a really good place with a lot of fun abilities in the mix, you could have every profession, herbs and ore readily available. The raids of WoD were really good, and yes, you geared up faster than ever before, which also meant the average player finished Mythic faster.

The claim that WoD was unfinished at launch is simply just not true.

[Sunslayer]

Complete dumpster fire start to finish. Much worse than WoD.

Wish they had upvoting

[Tronski]

Don't get me wrong, I WANT to have more things to do in wow. I just don't want NEEDING to do other things to do what I want. WoD had nothing to do outside of raiding. In TBC as an example there was plenty to do, and the raiding was already the best it has ever been.

You had Challenge modes, Ashran / regular pvp, Garrison, dailies and World quests, Pet battles, Followers to gather, reps to grind, achievements to do, treasures to find, World bosses, Crafting. There were plenty to do, people just didn't want to do it.

I mean, what could you do outside of raids in TBC that you couldn't in WoD, and what more did we really get in Legion/BFA apart from the universally loved endless AP-grind, legendary reasons to visit old raids each week and scaling challenge modes?

[Tyris Flare]

Sure they do speak for people. BfA was a dumpster fire. Or do you think they released free 6 month store mounts out of the goodness of their black hearts

People can hate on this expansion all they want, but it was a massive financial success. The highest-selling expansion ever and oodles of revenue from the cash shop (which has outpaced the game for income for a very long time).

If people sometimes wonder why the devs may seem unresponsive about this or that, it's probably because they are looking at metrics rather than random people's opinions on the forums. Like so many things, our behavior speaks louder than our complaints.

[arkanon]

People can hate on this expansion all they want, but it was a massive financial success. The highest-selling expansion ever and oodles of revenue from the cash shop (which has outpaced the game for income for a very long time).

If people sometimes wonder why the devs may seem unresponsive about this or that, it's probably because they are looking at metrics rather than random people's opinions on the forums. Like so many things, our behavior speaks louder than our complaints.

It was the FASTEST selling expansion - they are VERY clever with their wording with press releases, and some people gobble it up hook line and sinker.

This is what they actually said: "As of August 14, 2018, Battle for Azeroth is the fastest-selling WoW expansion of all time, with more than 3.4 million copies sold in one day"

To help put that in perspective, Cata, WoD, and Legion all did 3.3.

[Relapses]

It was the FASTEST selling expansion - they are VERY clever with their wording with press releases, and some people gobble it up hook line and sinker.

This is what they actually said: "As of August 14, 2018, Battle for Azeroth is the fastest-selling WoW expansion of all time, with more than 3.4 million copies sold in one day"

To help put that in perspective, Cata, WoD, and Legion all did 3.3.

It's worth noting that, unlike other expansions, BfA also had a massive number of preorders from the Allied Races early-access "feature."

[Sunslayer]

People can hate on this expansion all they want, but it was a massive financial success. The highest-selling expansion ever and oodles of revenue from the cash shop (which has outpaced the game for income for a very long time).

If people sometimes wonder why the devs may seem unresponsive about this or that, it's probably because they are looking at metrics rather than random people's opinions on the forums. Like so many things, our behavior speaks louder than our complaints.

Maybe you don't understand financials but...ok
Do you know that for the first time in 15 years WoW fell off the top ten US charts. What are you basing your post off? BfA according to financial data was a disaster.

[arkanon]

It's worth noting that, unlike other expansions, BfA also had a massive number of preorders from the Allied Races early-access "feature."

Oh without a doubt - like i said, its just marketing. Its not a broken down home in terrible condition, its a handymans dream. Its not unfinished, it has potential. Its not the lowest selling expansion to date, its the fastest selling expansion.

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Maybe you don't understand financials but...ok
Do you know that for the first time in 15 years WoW fell off the top ten US charts. What are you basing your post off? BfA according to financial data was a disaster.

Its based on the quote i linked above - i have seen people say it was the highest selling expansion for the entirety of its life, when what Blizzard actually said was it was the FASTEST selling, which is a very strange thing to say, but hey - it worked! some people to this day apparently believe BfA sold more copies than any previous expansion

[Sunslayer]

Oh without a doubt - like i said, its just marketing. Its not a broken down home in terrible condition, its a handymans dream. Its not unfinished, it has potential. Its not the lowest selling expansion to date, its the fastest selling expansion.

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Its based on the quote i linked above - i have seen people say it was the highest selling expansion for the entirety of its life, when what Blizzard actually said was it was the FASTEST selling, which is a very strange thing to say, but hey - it worked! some people to this day apparently believe BfA sold more copies than any previous expansion

And all of that is incorrect. Do understand research? Do some. BfA never even reached anywhere near WoD levels of 10 million subs. Post numbers and facts, not your feelings or what Blizzard told you. According to aactual data BfA sales were horrendous hence the free 6 six month sub mounts.

According to data BfA was a dumpster fire compared to WoD. Sorry the numbers don't support your narrative.

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People can hate on this expansion all they want, but it was a massive financial success. The highest-selling expansion ever and oodles of revenue from the cash shop (which has outpaced the game for income for a very long time).

If people sometimes wonder why the devs may seem unresponsive about this or that, it's probably because they are looking at metrics rather than random people's opinions on the forums. Like so many things, our behavior speaks louder than our complaints.

It wasn't a financial success. For the first time in 15 years WoW dropped off the top ten US games financial report. According to IGN BfA was the first time WoW has dropped this low as far as income.

[Kehego]

And all of that is incorrect. Do understand research? Do some. BfA never even reached anywhere near WoD levels of 10 million subs. Post numbers and facts, not your feelings or what Blizzard told you. According to aactual data BfA sales were horrendous hence the free 6 six month sub mounts.

According to data BfA was a dumpster fire compared to WoD. Sorry the numbers don't support your narrative.

you gonna link that data or no?

[Sunslayer]

you gonna link that data or no?

I was there. You got links? Have you been living under a rock? Or just don't care? There has been ample coverage of the dumpster fire that is BfA.
Do a search right now. Stop being lazy.

[Kehego]

I was there. You got links? Have you been living under a rock? Or just don't care? There has been ample coverage of the dumpster fire that is BfA.
Do a search right now. Stop being lazy.

so you don't have data to link, gotcha.

[arkanon]

And all of that is incorrect. Do understand research? Do some. BfA never even reached anywhere near WoD levels of 10 million subs. Post numbers and facts, not your feelings or what Blizzard told you. According to aactual data BfA sales were horrendous hence the free 6 six month sub mounts.

According to data BfA was a dumpster fire compared to WoD. Sorry the numbers don't support your narrative.

You quoted the wrong person in your anger. I was correcting the person who wrongfully claimed it was the highest selling expansion - it was not. Kind of embarrassing for you to be honest, and i did link the data in a previous post. Either quote the right person, or at very least READ what you are replying to with such aggression.

IRVINE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 23, 2018-- When the Battle for Azeroth™erupted worldwide last week, champions of the Alliance and the Horde around the globe were called upon to fight for their faction. Heroes everywhere turned out in force, and Blizzard Entertainment today announced that as of Battle for Azeroth’s first full day of launch on August 14, more than 3.4 million units of the latest World of Warcraft® expansion had sold through worldwide—setting a new day-one sales record for the franchise and making it one of the fastest-selling PC games of all-time.*

Cata, WoD, and Legion all achieved 3.3m, so it isnt even a particularly impressive feat anyway.

Before you tell people to do their research, maybe have a crack at doing the same yourself. This was from an official release, not some fansite or some fan saying "trust me bro, i was there!"

So embarrassing.

[munkeyinorbit]

And all of that is incorrect. Do understand research? Do some. BfA never even reached anywhere near WoD levels of 10 million subs. Post numbers and facts, not your feelings or what Blizzard told you. According to aactual data BfA sales were horrendous hence the free 6 six month sub mounts.

According to data BfA was a dumpster fire compared to WoD. Sorry the numbers don't support your narrative.

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It wasn't a financial success. For the first time in 15 years WoW dropped off the top ten US games financial report. According to IGN BfA was the first time WoW has dropped this low as far as income.

According to data? The only data we have says that BfA sold more than any other expansion on the first day. What data do you have that says that WoD sold more than BfA? Hint. There is none.

BfA wasn't a financial success? What about the 200m plus every quarter that wow generates? Wow continues to be the cash cow that funds blizzard. And this is from a game that according to the market experts\armchair developers is dead.

WoD was a fucking shit show. That's an objective truth. It was the worst expansion there ever was and it was a massive financial failure. Right out of the gate before release blizzard already written it off. "There will be only two raid tiers" was a massive red flag. The game bled subs faster than anything there has ever been released for wow and there was only one content patch. To even compare WoD with anything in a favourable light is just stupidity. People will remember that BfA was good by the time we are in 10.1. It wasn't but at least it wasn't the dumpster fire that WoD was from start to finish.

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I was there. You got links? Have you been living under a rock? Or just don't care? There has been ample coverage of the dumpster fire that is BfA.
Do a search right now. Stop being lazy.

The onus is on the person making the claim to provide the source. Educated people know this. Without sources you are just another angry man shouting at clouds.

[Relapses]

WoD was a fucking shit show. That's an objective truth. It was the worst expansion there ever was and it was a massive financial failure. Right out of the gate before release blizzard already written it off. "There will be only two raid tiers" was a massive red flag. The game bled subs faster than anything there has ever been released for wow and there was only one content patch. To even compare WoD with anything in a favourable light is just stupidity. People will remember that BfA was good by the time we are in 10.1. It wasn't but at least it wasn't the dumpster fire that WoD was from start to finish.

In other words, your imaginary numbers (which correlate to your opinion) are more important than that guy's imaginary numbers. Cute.

[Sunslayer]

According to data? The only data we have says that BfA sold more than any other expansion on the first day. What data do you have that says that WoD sold more than BfA? Hint. There is none.

BfA wasn't a financial success? What about the 200m plus every quarter that wow generates? Wow continues to be the cash cow that funds blizzard. And this is from a game that according to the market experts\armchair developers is dead.

WoD was a fucking shit show. That's an objective truth. It was the worst expansion there ever was and it was a massive financial failure. Right out of the gate before release blizzard already written it off. "There will be only two raid tiers" was a massive red flag. The game bled subs faster than anything there has ever been released for wow and there was only one content patch. To even compare WoD with anything in a favourable light is just stupidity. People will remember that BfA was good by the time we are in 10.1. It wasn't but at least it wasn't the dumpster fire that WoD was from start to finish.

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The onus is on the person making the claim to provide the source. Educated people know this. Without sources you are just another angry man shouting at clouds.

Stop being dense. WoD sold 10 million copies at launch. BfA sold garbage. Link otherwise or shut up.

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You quoted the wrong person in your anger. I was correcting the person who wrongfully claimed it was the highest selling expansion - it was not. Kind of embarrassing for you to be honest, and i did link the data in a previous post. Either quote the right person, or at very least READ what you are replying to with such aggression.

IRVINE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 23, 2018-- When the Battle for Azeroth™erupted worldwide last week, champions of the Alliance and the Horde around the globe were called upon to fight for their faction. Heroes everywhere turned out in force, and Blizzard Entertainment today announced that as of Battle for Azeroth’s first full day of launch on August 14, more than 3.4 million units of the latest World of Warcraft® expansion had sold through worldwide—setting a new day-one sales record for the franchise and making it one of the fastest-selling PC games of all-time.*

Cata, WoD, and Legion all achieved 3.3m, so it isnt even a particularly impressive feat anyway.

Before you tell people to do their research, maybe have a crack at doing the same yourself. This was from an official release, not some fansite or some fan saying "trust me bro, i was there!"

So embarrassing.

WoD sold 10 million. Your point?

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so you don't have data to link, gotcha.

Where is your links? I don't care enough to bother.

[arkanon]

WoD sold 10 million. Your point?
.

Thats it, continue to make an absolute Muppet out of yourself. Wod did NOT sell 10million in one day, dont make shit up - it only makes you look even more foolish than you already do.

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Stop being dense. WoD sold 10 million copies at launch. BfA sold garbage. Link otherwise or shut up.

No, it didnt - this is getting so embarrassing for you. You asked for a link, and it is LITERALLY right below were you ask for it. I even bolded the important parts for you, since reading is clearly not your strong suite.

[Nuciek]

High points:
Essences. Generally obtained by doing the content in which they excel (Conflict and Strife being a very notable exception), had a clear finishing point (neck to 80 and rank 3's), and could be swapped in any rest area or with tome. This was the perfect mid-expansion system to add.

I'm not really sure how you can put essences as high point of BfA. Having a skill that's more powerful than any class cooldown is one of the reasons why gameplay felt so bad. This plus the way they were obtained. It's not like you mentioned it, that they were obtained by doing content in which they excel. Frankly, your example with Conflict and Strife is also wrong because it actually was THE BEST PvP essence and mandatory for everyone as at least minor and for plenty as major, and in PvE it was just for some (and probably noone used it as major). But did Memory of Lucid Dream excel in farming reputation? Vitality Conduit is so powerful that you can't play healer in competetive PvP without it. Being forced to grind endlessly to get essence that you HAVE to get to stay relevant is not fun, and then again being forced to get it if you have an alt (only last patch changed that to some extent). And it doesn't matter if we're talking about PvE or PvP, because often you couldn't get your BiS essences by just sticking to what you like. You just can't have 3 top essences from raids or M+ or PvP, you're forced to farm content that you don't like. Essences weren't bad idea but were terribly implemented and are one of the things that made the gameplay less fun even if it doesn't look that way at first. When you burst someone down in PvP and then look at damage done you'll see that top damaging "skills" are essences, corruptions and PvE trinkets, doing more damage than class abilities. It's not a good design and essences play big part in this.

[MoanaLisa]

I think the average opinion is pretty stable though. Most people think MoP was good but those who hated it really hated it. Most people think the same about Legion. And everytime people come to say BfA was the worst ever, people just point at WoD. While the ranking is not perfectly clear, BfA and WoD are at the bottom in most polls with WoD overtaking BfA.

It depends on your game though. I know people who honestly believe that Warlords was a pretty good expansion. Why? They leveled and then they raided.

If you are one of those that primarily play to raid it was a decent expansion. It was everyone else that was left out.

That was deliberate in my view. Everything about that expansion was designed to path players into raids. It failed in that in every way imaginable and many, many quit or left early with the complaint that there was nothing to do. The HQ reaction to that has led to today's design: there will be something to keep people busy forever. It's a valid reaction to the dumpster fire that was Warlords although in that way that Blizzard has they've taken it to extremes.

Smart players will opt out of stuff they don't like or play like a lot of us: do what you want to do and if you relax into that and don't overly worry about keeping up, you'll get what you need. It just takes longer. The min-maxers are playing another game altogether and I don't have a lot of sympathy that it takes a lot to actually approach "max." Seems to me that's how it should be.

[arkanon]

It depends on your game though. I know people who honestly believe that Warlords was a pretty good expansion. Why? They leveled and then they raided.

If you are one of those that primarily play to raid it was a decent expansion. It was everyone else that was left out.

This is one of the reasons I prefer WoD over BfA. All i did is what you said - i lvld my toons, and i raided. I enjoyed plenty (not all) specs, and had some new stuff to try out and enjoy. BfA for me personally was just too much - too much of everything, and nothing felt meaningful anymore. But its obviously entirely subjective that was just my personal experience of each expac. I still rank them both as my least enjoyable expansions, but my lifestyle etc at the time of each expansion is a big factor too. What im saying is if TBC was released today, i might not enjoy it like i did back then, even though it was one of if not my favorite expac, along with wrath and mop.