Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Levelfive]

I am aware. But you claimed the shooter fired at Rittenhouse, which is a claim that I haven't seen a single shred of evidence backing up.

I agree, this is not known, but from witnesses they state that while he was trying to escape, run away, deescalate the situation, there were shots fired behind him before he turned and fired. Now whether that means he is guilty of a lesser crime (then murder) like wrongful death or a manslaughter charge, I don't know. But running away after being threatened, chased, and then having gunshots go off behind him, does show that at least in his mind, he was in danger.

They threatened him. He tried to run and they chased him. Threw things at him. Gunshots behind him (as I said, we don't know if they were at him or not). At what point would someone begin to think that maybe he felt he had no other choices at that point then to defend himself with force?

I am not saying that he was right in the first firing, but I can try to understand it from his point of view at the time and see that maybe it isn't so cut and dry.

I will say that media and people making things up end up making it worse. All the reporting about he came from another state and was a traveling white nationalist grifter. Then we find out, yeah he lives 20 minutes away and has a job in the town. He left the scene of a crime and just ran. Then we find out he tried to turn himself in to the police there, was told to go, and so he went home and turned himself in to the police there. We really need to get back to letting the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

At the point you're talking about, he was already an active shooter. In this scenario, he's the 9/11 terrorist, and the people chasing him were the guys on Flight 93 saying, "Let's roll." And the right is making him into a hero practicing self-defense.

[Bodakane]

Neither do the tiki torch dudes who were at Charlottesville.
Relax, I was just responding to a ridiculous comparison with another ridiculous comparison.



White nationalists are lone wolf retards who have violent outbursts and get shot down and condemned by the world.
It's exactly because they're "a hurricane" that they haven't been getting any real ground in years.
Everyone sees the danger and reacts immediately in the strongest way possible.

Meanwhile Antifa has mastered the notion of "death by a thousand cuts", playing it way smarter. Instead of those violent outbursts they damage... but never too much. Attack... but never too violently, gain ground... but never too far at once.
They've created a strategy where they can do just as terrible things while avoiding the immediate, visceral reaction that white nationalists suffer.

Thanks to that and the sometimes oblivious and often conniving presence of media and politicians they've now succesfully started to dismantle police presence in the country.

You tell me which is more dangerous.



I already condemned Kyle multiple times. He's no hero to me, but an idiot amongst other idiots.
Those guys chasing him should've just pointed him to the police and let them handle it. They were also idiots.
I'm not gonna play sides and make excuses.

There's bias here, yes, but it's entirely yours.

And yes, a person who ignores police orders and leans into his car grabbing something unknown is also an idiot providing justified reason for the cop to fear for his life. You DON'T want to do that.
Every sane person knows that when you're stopped by a cop you want to put your hand visible on the handle, do no sudden gestures, stay and speak calmly and let the whole thing go by procedure.

Do that and you WILL come out alive, regardless of whatever nonsense about "police hunting black people" might be around.

Again, a whole lot of bullshit in that post. I'm noticing a trend.

[DingDongKing]

Unless you're a cop, anyway.

If you're a cop and your victim is black in such a situation, you get a medal of honour from the GOP.

[Soliloque]

That cannot be considered true. It's ridiculous. If you see an armed gunman walking into a school,

Kyle was fleeing, not engaging. What you're describing here is engagement.
If you see an armed gunman fleeing from a school you don't run after him, you call the police.

This comparison doesn't hold.

[Krakan]

At the point you're talking about, he was already an active shooter. In this scenario, he's the 9/11 terrorist, and the people chasing him were the guys on Flight 93 saying, "Let's roll." And the right is making him into a hero practicing self-defense.

I mean it isn't a right or left argument. You attack someone with a weapon you get the weapon used on you...

This isn't exactly a revolutionary or novel concept.

[Templar 331]

Kyle was fleeing, not engaging.

He crossed the state line to illegally open carry during a riot after curfew. He was engaging.

Those guys went after him to engage, attack and take his gun while they could've called the police instead.

The same police who told him he was doing a good job?

- - - Updated - - -

I mean it isn't a right or left argument. You attack someone with a weapon you get the weapon used on you...

This isn't exactly a revolutionary or novel concept.

"If you talk back you your abusive husband you deserve to get hit" isn't a good argument.

[Soliloque]

I agree, this is not known, but from witnesses they state that while he was trying to escape, run away, deescalate the situation, there were shots fired behind him before he turned and fired. Now whether that means he is guilty of a lesser crime (then murder) like wrongful death or a manslaughter charge, I don't know. But running away after being threatened, chased, and then having gunshots go off behind him, does show that at least in his mind, he was in danger.

They threatened him. He tried to run and they chased him. Threw things at him. Gunshots behind him (as I said, we don't know if they were at him or not). At what point would someone begin to think that maybe he felt he had no other choices at that point then to defend himself with force?

I am not saying that he was right in the first firing, but I can try to understand it from his point of view at the time and see that maybe it isn't so cut and dry.

I will say that media and people making things up end up making it worse. All the reporting about he came from another state and was a traveling white nationalist grifter. Then we find out, yeah he lives 20 minutes away and has a job in the town. He left the scene of a crime and just ran. Then we find out he tried to turn himself in to the police there, was told to go, and so he went home and turned himself in to the police there. We really need to get back to letting the facts come out before jumping to conclusions.

Absolutely agreed.
Sorry for such a short answer to a big quote like yours, but it had to be said. 100% agreed.

Everytime I hear that whole "crossed state lines" I know I'm dealing with a dishonest media outlet.

He crossed the state line to illegally open carry during a riot after curfew. He was engaging.

Ahahaha, hadn't seen this one before posting yet.
Talk about calling it

[Levelfive]

I mean it isn't a right or left argument. You attack someone with a weapon you get the weapon used on you...

This isn't exactly a revolutionary or novel concept.

He was being chased down because at that point, he was an active shooter. He was a bad guy with a gun, and people were trying to stop him. It should NOT be a right / left issue, but the right is canonizing him and the left is expecting him to be treated like any other mass shooter. Why is that so hard for conservatives?

[Mayhem]

White nationalists are lone wolf retards who have violent outbursts and get shot down and condemned by the world.
It's exactly because they're "a hurricane" that they haven't been getting any real ground in years.
Everyone sees the danger and reacts immediately in the strongest way possible.

Meanwhile Antifa has mastered the notion of "death by a thousand cuts", playing it way smarter. Instead of those violent outbursts they damage... but never too much. Attack... but never too violently, gain ground... but never too far at once.
They've created a strategy where they can do just as terrible things while avoiding the immediate, visceral reaction that white nationalists suffer.

Thanks to that and the sometimes oblivious and often conniving presence of media and politicians they've now succesfully started to dismantle police presence in the country.

You tell me which is more dangerous.

You have it almost exactly backwards, that is really impressive.

[Krakan]

He crossed the state line to illegally open carry during a riot after curfew. He was engaging.



The same police who told him he was doing a good job?

- - - Updated - - -



"If you talk back you your abusive husband you deserve to get hit" isn't a good argument.

If you attack a random person you deserve to be hit is a more apt example.

Why is it people give nonsensical comparisons for this?

[Endus]

Kyle was fleeing, not engaging. What you're describing here is engagement.

That's a lie.

He put himself in that position, on purpose, and armed himself deliberately to do so. He fled during that engagement, but that doesn't change the facts.

If you see an armed gunman fleeing from a school you don't run after him, you call the police.

I can shout for someone else to call the police. I like to think I would try and take down the active shooter, though I haven't been in that situation yet (I have been a first responder to a car accident, where I didn't hesitate to run into the situation, at least).

[Krakan]

He was being chased down because at that point, he was an active shooter. He was a bad guy with a gun, and people were trying to stop him. It should NOT be a right / left issue, but the right is canonizing him and the left is expecting him to be treated like any other mass shooter. Why is that so hard for conservatives?

You have proof of any of this? Any at all... I mean for a active shooter out to spill blood he seems extremely hesitant to shot in both videos only using it as a last resort.

[Levelfive]

If you're a cop and your victim is black in such a situation, you get a medal of honour from the GOP.

Cops and vigilantes enforcing the racial order are pre-saints, really.

[Soliloque]

Again, a whole lot of bullshit in that post. I'm noticing a trend.

I'm noticing a trend from you as well: running away from arguments.
Guess they're like garlic to a vampire, given your signature.

[Stelio Kontos]

have been a first responder to a car accident, where I didn't hesitate to run into the situation, at least).

The difference being a car isn't going to try and kill you. You can't compare responding to a car accident to a shooting situation. Unless you've got some type of LEO/combat/military training, you'll most likely run away, and that's fine. You'd be a liability otherwise.

[Endus]

The difference being a car isn't going to try and kill you. You can't compare responding to a car accident to a shooting situation. Unless you've got some type of LEO/combat/military training, you'll most likely run away, and that's fine. You'd be a liability otherwise.

That's why I prefaced it with "I'd like to think".

I was part of the Reserves and I've done armed security work, though I honestly don't think that matters nearly as much as you make it out to.

[Levelfive]

You have proof of any of this? Any at all... I mean for a active shooter out to spill blood he seems extremely hesitant to shot in both videos only using it as a last resort.

Yeah, the sequences of events:

"Rittenhouse then began to flee, running up the street as witnesses shouted "Get him! Get that dude!" "Hey, he shot him!" and, "Beat him up!" Detectives said as Rittenhouse ran away, he could be heard speaking on his cell phone, saying, "I just killed somebody."

At one point, an unidentified male appears to attempt to strike Rittenhouse, according to the complaint, knocking his hat off but not appearing to make contact otherwise.

Then, in video seen widely across the nation, the suspect can be seen falling down. The complaint said Huber used the moment to attempt to disarm Rittenhouse.

The skateboarder approached with his board in one hand, and with the other, he appeared "to be trying to pull the gun away from the defendant," the complaint said.

Rittenhouse rolled to his left side, and as Huber attempted to grab the gun, it was pointed at his body, according to the complaint.

"The defendant then fires one round which can be heard on the video. Huber staggers away, taking several steps, then collapses to the ground. Huber subsequently died from this gunshot wound," the complaint said."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/kyle-ri...est-wisconsin/

[Templar 331]

If you attack a random person you deserve to be hit is a more apt example.

Why is it people give nonsensical comparisons for this?

He wasn't randomly attacked. He initiated the conflict by being there with a weapon. And with eye witnesses saying he was improperly handling it, there was more than enough reason to take that weapon away.

And it isn't a nonsensical comparison. You admit that a person with a weapon is dangerous and shouldn't be confronted. The same with an abusive spouse, you know they're a danger. But confronting them isn't and should never be the wrong thing to do just because they're a danger.

[Soliloque]

That's a lie.
He put himself in that position, on purpose, and armed himself deliberately to do so. He fled during that engagement, but that doesn't change the facts.

There's no need to engage someone no longer actively dangerous who's fleeing, you let the authorities deal with it.
The fact that he was fleeing in that situation shapes the whole thing. Those three weren't being actively threatened and didn't need to take the matter in their own hands, yet did.
Kyle isn't innocent, but what else did they expect?

I can shout for someone else to call the police. I like to think I would try and take down the active shooter, though I haven't been in that situation yet (I have been a first responder to a car accident, where I didn't hesitate to run into the situation, at least).

No offense and talking about that hypothetical you, but you'd be dumb to do that.
If you see a guy fleeing a place with a gun and you're unarmed you don't go attacking and trying to disarm them... like seriously, what the heck. Even Rambo wouldn't do that.

[Stelio Kontos]

That's why I prefaced it with "I'd like to think".

I was part of the Reserves and I've done armed security work, though I honestly don't think that matters nearly as much as you make it out to.

It means more than political ideology and post-rebuttal ability does. Besides, first you'd need to ascertain the shooter's race, gender identity, socio-economic background and political ideology first, right? Have to make sure he's on the right before you try and stop him.