Can IO ratings be trusted if people are able to buy runs skewing its accuracy.

[valax]

Yeah it's kinda hit or miss, In BFA had quite a few good IO scored healers that would kill a key first boss of SoB because their peanut brain couldn't make 2+2 and kite the damn boss on the goddamn bombs

[ID811717]

So many people doing Rio groups that takes forever to put together and then start the key with no planning whatsoever because "they know what to do due to Rio" and fail after a pull or two. Just because people reached the same Rio with different tactics.

That's the biggest downside to Rio for me. People substitute it with just three lines of communication...

That's a great point. It's yet another good reason to strive for playing mostly with people who have roughly the same level of experience in the content you are doing. There does not exist "the correct" tactic for many things. You can get 1.5k player, 3k player, 4.5k player, and 6k player... together in the same group, and you might discover each of them is trying to execute a substantially different tactic (beyond just different MDT routes).

It also has previously happened to me in very high key pugs that actively used voice comms. The more experienced player asks: "do you know how to do X, can you do it"... The less experienced player answers they know how to do it, does it... And then they discover they each had an entirely different thing in mind. This even happened repeatedly in the same group.

Blizzard is mostly at fault for this. If they didn't have "time limited" rewards then people wouldn't feel the need to be boosted or anything. Adding time limited rewards, while nice, adds a lot of other issues to the game.

And likewise, the M+ consumables cost a fortune by design. That forces many players to be active boosters in order to be competitive in M+.

- - - Updated - - -

People keep saying "its the best we have" but why should it be?
The people who made this flawed system must be held accountable for the product they have produced and that is impacting the game so heavily.

The only reason its the "best we have" is because people keep settling for it.

This system can not be trusted regardless of boosting because it does not take into affixes into account.
No clue how we are 2 expansions into M+ and they still don't realize this, but its unacceptable that something doesn't change.

Their system is encouraging all the wrong things about Mythic+ and having a dramatic impact on the game.
Stop making excuses for them.

If more people speak up they will have to change it.

This sounds so entitled. Does raider.io owe you anything?

Look, you have already put the effort to build yourself a platform on YouTube. I'm not a viewer, but that's a great thing.

You have been screaming at M+ scores from the rooftops at least since July 2017 (back then it was about the wowprogress score, since raider.io was still at its inception). But, as the years go, it feels you mostly focus on non-constructive or non-actionable criticism. As someone who is more committed to the game than most of the players (and in particular, most posters in this thread), and as someone who has some viewership base to represent and be accountable to... Why don't you want to foster the constructive and actionable discussion on this topic?

You can come up with specific ideas to improve (or even replace) the scoring system, you can bounce your ideas against your viewers to make sure it all makes sense. You can come and speak with raider.io admins (entire two of them, only one of them being a developer)... You can even try to invite them for a discussion on your stream (I would 100% watch that). If your ideas work and get adapted - great. If they do not work, then you have a chance to inform and educate your viewers on what did not work, and discuss how to improve on that. You can reflect on that in an mmo-champion thread, gaining more publicity for your YouTube channel, and also more feedback on your ideas.

If nothing works, and you are really passionate, you can work to become the owner of the next, better version of PvE progress website, dethroning raider.io (in the same way they dethroned wowprogress when it comes to M+ scores). Or you could contact the wowprogress admin Kernel (who has an axe to grind with raider.io), and partner with him to dethrone raider.io together.

As an "influencer" of sorts, one that focuses on mid-range M+ pugs for most of the content ...shouldn't you be held accountable for not working to make a real change? (In comparison, top M+ streamers like Naowh or Gingi have not the slightest clue about what you see in your pugs.) ...and don't you see that as your big opportunity to gain relevance?

It would not even be a problem if it somehow turned out that raider.io already did the best possible job, and the rest of the responsibility lies with the community. Because if that was the case, then a streamer's responsibility (and opportunity) is to inform and educate the general viewership/populations of players about why that is the case. The daily mmo-champion posts about raider.io show that there is a big demand for discussion on related topics.

We know that raider.io is composed of an extremely small crew of people. It is safe to assume they operate on very limited resources (time, financial, and likely in terms of realistic suggestions for feature improvements). It is safe to assume most of the problems are due to technical limitations and due to limited resourced, not because of evil intentions. Why not nudge the people to support them where it counts? Anyone can:
1. Join their discord server to provide feedback and suggestions.
2. Fund them through Patreon, if you feel that your feedback is being heard.
3. Volunteer as a software developer, if developer time is the bottleneck and you have very specific admin-approved features you are capable of implementing.

[Dunkelzahn]

sic brag bro. but I have no idea what the hell you are talking about, unless you are assuming the entire wow community views the game exactly like you then your post makes no sense.

and yes we are talking exactly about people paying for carries and yes that was the simple math behind it. not much detective work required


if someone got carried with a reg group (like you) then why the hell would they then start pugging and instead just keep playing with that group.

Ah, okay, you're a preteen twat who no one gives a fuck about. Got it. "Sic brag, bro!"

And your inability to comprehend what you read means even less to me. "OMFG, u got carried cuz u don't run 23578421837253 30+ mythics a day, LOLOL SIC BURN BY ME! LOL!!!!!!1111" --Dipshit McFuckface, aka You.

[goldlock]

I think what most people miss is that a imperfect tool is better then no tool at all.

[SinR]

short answer: No

Long Answer Nooooooooooooo

[Thzz]

Ah, okay, you're a preteen twat who no one gives a fuck about. Got it. "Sic brag, bro!"

And your inability to comprehend what you read means even less to me. "OMFG, u got carried cuz u don't run 23578421837253 30+ mythics a day, LOLOL SIC BURN BY ME! LOL!!!!!!1111" --Dipshit McFuckface, aka You.

u mad bro?
Infracted

[loras]

Honestly it's the same as with all previous measuring sticks: They work sort of well for a while, then people learn to game the system and they lose value.
I'd just prefer it if it weren't an external thing, i'd much rather see it be like rating in pvp so that Blizzard can scrub out the worst excesses of the system while keeping the tool at least semi-relevant.

[Tharkkun]

100 is a perfectly fine number. A lot of people have completed that amount of +15-25 dungeons. The important thing is that we play with people at our own level.

You're talking a few thousand players at best will have 100+. The OP is mad because they got a high IO (we don't even know what high means - no number given) for a +12 and the player was bad. Going to the extreme and making a baseline of 100+ runs is not a good number to use at all.

10+ on time and not just the required 8 dungeons is a good number to judge whether the person is a total scrub. Hell check if they've completed the same one multiple times. Even then for a +12 could be pushing it. If you want to eliminate any chance whatsoever of someone being carried then by all means judge on 100+ and limit your pool of players.

[Kaver]

You're talking a few thousand players at best will have 100+. The OP is mad because they got a high IO (we don't even know what high means - no number given) for a +12 and the player was bad. Going to the extreme and making a baseline of 100+ runs is not a good number to use at all.

10+ on time and not just the required 8 is a good number to judge whether the person is a total scrub. Even then for a +12 could be pushing it. If you want to eliminate any chance whatsoever of someone being carried then by all means judge on 100+ and limit your pool of players.

100+ is fine by my standard. I enjoy pushimg keys and I prefer to play with people who also enjoy pushing keys. Players who push keys will easily have more than 100 dungeons completed.

[arkanon]

We took 2 guys we didnt know to heroic raid. Their ilvl was higher than any of our alts (what we were playing on), they had decent io, and even mythic achieves for the same raid. They were without a doubt the two worst players i have ever taken to a raid. It wasnt until the next day when we were laughing about it that we did a little digging. All their raid chives were single kills - all of heroic, single kills. Few bosses in normal had multiple kills. M+ was 1 run / week. Every slot that had a BOE was filled with one, some worth 250k+ gold. These guys just poured money into buying runs. Thats all they did - either earn or buy gold, then buy carries.

[Kaver]

We took 2 guys we didnt know to heroic raid. Their ilvl was higher than any of our alts (what we were playing on), they had decent io, and even mythic achieves for the same raid. They were without a doubt the two worst players i have ever taken to a raid. It wasnt until the next day when we were laughing about it that we did a little digging. All their raid chives were single kills - all of heroic, single kills. Few bosses in normal had multiple kills. M+ was 1 run / week. Every slot that had a BOE was filled with one, some worth 250k+ gold. These guys just poured money into buying runs. Thats all they did - either earn or buy gold, then buy carries.

Luckily these guys are pretty easy to avoid and the amount of them are pretty low.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah, okay, you're a preteen twat who no one gives a fuck about. Got it. "Sic brag, bro!"

And your inability to comprehend what you read means even less to me. "OMFG, u got carried cuz u don't run 23578421837253 30+ mythics a day, LOLOL SIC BURN BY ME! LOL!!!!!!1111" --Dipshit McFuckface, aka You.

Calm down mate. To be honest, I also don’t see the relevance of your earlier post to the subject we were addressing. How is a story about you playing with guildies relevant to our conversation about the ease of avoiding gold boosted people?

[Eapoe]

Ratings by itself, probably not; but, there’s so much more to IO than just the rating. To ask only about the rating aspect comes off as someone who is ignorant of how it actually works, doesn’t make their own groups, and has probably been declined for not running enough m+ and are upset about it.

[Daymanmb]

The question you're asking is a fallacy. The real question is, did it ever really matter to begin with?

[Wuusah]

I don’t understand this thought process some people seem to have where if it’s not a guarantee to find a good player then the system sucks and can’t be trusted. What’s the alternative to rio? Will you find decent players as often without rio?

It seems so small-minded to me when people only think in individual runs, where one bad experience makes up their mind.

[khazlol]

99% of the advertisement i see in the groupfinder is for 15s so it's probably around the 2k rio score i would double check.

[Jazzhands]

People keep saying "its the best we have" but why should it be?
The people who made this flawed system must be held accountable for the product they have produced and that is impacting the game so heavily.

The only reason its the "best we have" is because people keep settling for it.

This system can not be trusted regardless of boosting because it does not take into affixes into account.
No clue how we are 2 expansions into M+ and they still don't realize this, but its unacceptable that something doesn't change.

Their system is encouraging all the wrong things about Mythic+ and having a dramatic impact on the game.
Stop making excuses for them.

If more people speak up they will have to change it.

Affixes are universal, and most are now two expansions old, experience with the specific affixes in the specific dungeon really isn't an issue for any decent player. Volcanic is the same whether I'm in TD or KR. A few like bolstering might effect pulls, but that's only at high (16+) levels where people actually try/care and are significantly less likely to have been boosted. If you really think a 3k IO player won't be able to handle basic affixes in a dungeon he's run 100+ times, I dunno what I could say that will convince you of this. They aren't rocket science.

People also seem to forget that people pug 20+ keys and that IO is an indispensable tool that would otherwise make this incredibly time consuming and frustrating. It's a tool meant for the high end that the low end uses like the high end, you can't blame the add on for how the community uses it. The community has pretty much always been like this though. Even in Vanilla people would check gear at the AH/Bank/IF bridge. People like to know you aren't going to waste their time.

What system would you recommend with the data we are given at this moment? All IO does is compile data that's available to anyone into an easy to use add-on, without IO people would just be using armory like they did in the past and the result would be the same. It literally is the best we have right now, because it has all the relevant data that we have access to as players.

[Loveliest]

everyone is buying boosts these days

Well, not everyone. But yes, boosting affects everything. It's actually pretty funny how people complain about some warforged items, whn people buy specific items off Mythic bosses through boosting. Like the weapons from Ra Den.
As long as boosting exists and people are boosted for everything and in such high number, I really don't care what people complain about. A lot of things would be easier to fix if they wouldnt be affected by boosting. Like joining a M+. You want to get in, but you cant, because there are loads of people who bought their score.

As long as boosting exists, it will keep pushing requirements higher and fill up people's wishlist. People don't bother to form a guild group to kill a boss from 2 tiers ago, because you can be done and have your mount in 10mins for 500k gold.

But boosting will not go away. Blizz liked it because ppl buy tokens. And the leaders of the boosters sell the gold to make real money. Nobody would put in effort to hoard billions of gold if they wouldnt be able to profit for real. Yes, the boosters get a little gold and are happy with it, but someone there surely profits irl off this.

[asil]

Really don't get why people constantly complain about raider IO. You can get 2k while being basically braindead if you put absolutely minimal effort into the game.

Sometimes we invite randoms to carry keys and I'd say the average dps I've seen from a 1800-2k IO player is like 50k overall.

[Loveliest]

Affixes are universal, and most are now two expansions old, experience with the specific affixes in the specific dungeon really isn't an issue for any decent player.

You are wrong here. You assume rio is used only for high keys. People don't complain about rio because they cant get into a 23. They complain about it because they want to do their lousy weekly 15.

And for that, affixes matter. You get your score to 2k on the easy week and then you cant deal with explosives at all. And not just that.

[Jazzhands]

You are wrong here. You assume rio is used only for high keys. People don't complain about rio because they cant get into a 23. They complain about it because they want to do their lousy weekly 15.

And for that, affixes matter. You get your score to 2k on the easy week and then you cant deal with explosives at all. And not just that.

I assume the exact opposite, I specifically said it's a tool the low end uses like the high end, this implies that I, you know, think people use it for low keys where it's not needed. People can't get into their lousy weekly 15 because people use r.IO for 15s like they're running a 20+, they want overgeared/r.IO FoTM players, this has nothing to do with r.IO and everything to do with how people want to tailor their run, which they will do regardless of r.IO because r.IO only gives data we have access to.

If you can push your score to 2k but can't target an orb or LoS orbs, that's some kind of special. Affixes are very basic mechanics, if you play this game enough to reach 2k but can't understand them relatively quickly then, well, some kind of special.