Are you tired of borrowed power?

[Divinex]

It seems that ever since Legion, BFA and now Shadowlands, we are getting some form of borrowed power that wont exist next xpac.
(Legendary Items/Artifact passives/actives)
(Azerite,Essences,corruption)
(Covenants, Soul Binds, Conduits)

Im honestly tired of this bullshit
Losing borrowed power is always a shitty feeling
Hopefully, they dial it back a bit next xpac

[Overlordd]

Yes I hate it with a passion. It's an easy way for devs to timegate shit and just pull onto a lever when they want us to move forward. Also a great way to force people to play more and stay subbed to farm power more.

It's a DISGUSTING feature.

[leggomydairy]

It’s the worst. Classes feel incomplete and are constantly changing. The problem is they created an expectation for new class abilities every expansion and this is their answer instead of button bloat

[Byleth]

I'm tired of threads complaining about borrowed power. Does that count?

[Doffen]

It's fine if it's done properly. Eye of the beholder obviously. For me Legion borrowed power felt good, BfA did not.

[catalystical]

Yes I hate it with a passion. It's an easy way for devs to timegate shit and just pull onto a lever when they want us to move forward. Also a great way to force people to play more and stay subbed to farm power more.

It's a DISGUSTING feature.

Well making us play more is kinda the point of a game isn't it?

I'm also more than happy to keep systems in their own expansions so each expansion can be their own thing.

[iperson]

NO MOAR BORROWED POWER! Also, bring back raid sets...

[Relapses]

You can make the argument that borrowed power has existed since Classic with the original Legendaries. I really don't think borrowed power systems are the issue. The issue is the way these systems are rolled out is typically less-than-ideal then iterated throughout an expansion so that they only ever feel legitimately balanced during the content drought leading into the next expansion.

[StillMcfuu]

It kind of sucks.

Classes don't develop naturally. Classes feel terrible at the start of expansions, and feel weak at max level up to the .1 or .2 patch release when more borrowed powers get added and/or those systems get streamlined.

The main issue is Classes have completely stagnated. Instead of adding more abilities and pruning older abilities that were being used less or not at all, we get stuck with the same buttons which we've been pressing for 4 years now.

[Schattenlied]

No, I enjoy it. If abilities just piled up on us xpac after xpac then there'd be nothing interesting to look forward to in new expansions and our bars would just be a bloated mess.

Such linear thinking, to assume the only solution is to go back to how it was before.
We can get new shit without any bar bloat at all.

They don't have to make any new baseline abilities.

They don't have to make any new talent rows.

What they can do is make more talent columns. Expand the talent trees sideways instead of down. No more buttons to press, just more options to choose from, no more losing access to shit we had for 2 years for no reason.

[Overlordd]

Well making us play more is kinda the point of a game isn't it?

I'm also more than happy to keep systems in their own expansions so each expansion can be their own thing.

I'd rather let them get rid of the systems.

[CalamityHeart]

No, not really.

Call me weird, but if I had to pick between total stagnation between expansions and the roller coaster ride series of ups and downs we're on now where our characters are essentially reset at the beginning of every expansion... I'd pick the latter every time.

[Sluvs]

Such linear thinking, to assume the only solution is to go back to how it was before.
We can get new shit without any bar bloat at all.

They don't have to make any new baseline abilities.

They don't have to make any new talent rows.

What they can do is make more talent columns. Expand the talent trees sideways instead of down. No more buttons to press, just more options to choose from, no more losing access to shit we had for 2 years for no reason.

That actually might be a good idea.

[cparle87]

It kind of sucks.

Classes don't develop naturally. Classes feel terrible at the start of expansions, and feel weak at max level up to the .1 or .2 patch release when more borrowed powers get added and/or those systems get streamlined.

The main issue is Classes have completely stagnated. Instead of adding more abilities and pruning older abilities that were being used less or not at all, we get stuck with the same buttons which we've been pressing for 4 years now.

So if you were say a feral druid you'd be happy if they invented some new combo point builder that had a shiny animation, then next animation removed shred and had the new one replace it in the rotation for the sake of not getting "stuck with the same buttons"?

[Razion]

Would you rather have a LOT of abilities removed all at once, or LESS abilities removed more regularly?

Personally I'd rather have less removed more often than have a lot removed all at once.
We all may forget to the extent it hurt, but when those first huge ability pruning events took place there was a lot of bemoaning.

Over the years I think it's more sustainable for the game to do more regular smaller edits to classes by adding and removing each expansion rather than cut off a huge chunk of classes all at once.

[DechCJC]

Such linear thinking, to assume the only solution is to go back to how it was before.
We can get new shit without any bar bloat at all.

They don't have to make any new baseline abilities.

They don't have to make any new talent rows.

What they can do is make more talent columns. Expand the talent trees sideways instead of down. No more buttons to press, just more options to choose from, no more losing access to shit we had for 2 years for no reason.

I like this idea, though you'd end out still 'losing' abilities to the new BIS talent on that row.

[s_bushido]

"Borrowed power" has existed since there were set bonuses, weapons, and trinkets with unique effects. The major differences are: the game reached a point where adding new permanent abilities every tier/expac was unsustainable, and there weren't youtube clickbait artists relying on buzzword-driven outrage to get views.

[Selastan]

I'm torn. On one hand, it rips away the feeling of progression. On the other hand, I hate power creep, and finding a way for us to lose our powers every time is a story handicap.

[Swnem]

Yes. In my opinion it is a waste of development resources cause it all gets trashed after 2 years or less.
Well... not all, but most of it.

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

No. You can't keep adding things infinitely, nor can you have everything stay the same all the time. Abilities have always come and gone and i feel like this gives way more design space to look for cool things. If they actually manage to make some interesting "borrowed powers" they make em talents/legendaries/whatevers for the future. It feels like borrowed powers just became another meme for people to clutch on to cause it's not what we used to have.

edit: Saying it all gets trashed is just wrong. You clearly do not have any idea how many talents, baseline traits and abilities and conduits were "borrowed power" to begin with.