Time Skip World Revamp Potential (Eastern Kingdoms)

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Hmm...Maybe the prince (assuming he believes himself to be who they say he is) could have been raised by General Abbendis safe in Tyr's Hand before being sent into some human lands into hiding when the crusade went to Northrend during WotLK? She was actually much more moderate and I believe was passing secret messages behind Saidan's (Balnazzar's) back, so she may have had her suspicions about the highlord. She was just taken in by Malganis' tricks in WotLK to believe the Light was speaking to her when it was really him instead.

I think it may be relatively easy to put it all on Balnazzar and Malganis for corrupting them, going on about how he wants to continue Abbendis' mission to cleanse Lordaeron and follow her example. Possibly he has a modest entourage of loyal and moderate knights at his command who accompany him to Stormwind, along with possibly one sneaky and classic Scarlet-style evil manipulating advisor who was the one who convinced everyone he was the true heir to Lordaeron's throne. Maybe he proves himself to Stormwind by going to Duskwood, dealing a heavy blow to the undead there, while simultaneously inspiring and possibly recruiting a few locals? Could have begun as a small movement that gained more and more momentum before he eventually got the support of the Stormwind chapter of the Knights of the Silver Hand (not the worldwide Legion paladin faction, just the Stormwind ones) and recruitment REALLY began to snowball into a huge army, which happens to include humans who still really really really hate the Forsaken.

I just really, really, REALLY want a more interesting group of humans than Stormwind to take some sort of spotlight one day, even if only in my fanfiction-like daydreams.

We also need a cool, pragmatic prince who actually does things and fights and leads troops the way Arthas did. Anduin was always so boring, and Liam Greymane died, Galen Trollbane is a spoiled cliche, etc.

Eh personally I am against that because I just simply dislike the idea of monarchy being necessary or desirable; fantasy is rife with it. So a group lead by a prince with a fanatic following would hardly be interesting for me, personally. Maybe as and adversary, as a nostalgia drip for people trying to go back to "how it used to be". I just really find the idea of a monarchy restoration very bleh.

We do need a pragmatic human leader, but I'd loath for them to be a royal. If anything whatever reclaiming movement would surge in Lordaeron, would be far more compelling if it was a commoner harping against the divine rights of kings; hell go full secular and actually let's go for a group of humans without a strong religious component. Making them an actual threat to the monarchies by saying "why should you keep following Kings?" now that might get a lot of people behind after all the failures of the Menethils, Greymane and Wrynns.

[Ardenaso]

if the Argents lose support from Stormwind then it's only right that they reunite with their Forsaken brethren and align themselves to the Horde, after all Lordaeron had a nice history with Quel'thalas so the Argents should support the Forsaken and Blood Elves

also looks like the Kingdom of Alterac really can't take a break

[Beloren]

the political configuration of the different azerothian factions is the most interesting part of the lore for me. Loved what they did with the plaguelands in cata - finally, some progress! I'd love to have more of that.

Thank you. For me it beats the constant faction focus anyday. Maybe it’s because faction faction faction is all we have gotten when things focus on us, and it became stale long ago.

They’d have done well to cycle between race stories, class stories, faction stories and the big bad.

Of the 4 I feel race has the most compelling and best detail especially as they are geographically linked making them bread and butter for game exploration. Not to mention have the best detail that needs depth and that fascinates the most.

Problem is we get their story with new zones (like we got Zandalari and Kul’Tiras) but then they become playable and get nothing after for themselves, only their role in the horde story. Damnit I see myself as a blood elf first, not horde. I want to be working far more for the blood elves than the horde. Yet it’s the extreme opposite. .

Races provide an excellent source of interest, not just politics, but culture and wonder etc. And while that can be given in any race, whether playable or not. Our characters are interesting and we get attached to because of their race.

I’m attached far more to blood elves than I am to the horde, I’m even finding night elf affairs more interesting than the horde.

Blizzard don’t realise this and think I just want to see more of the faction and just need cameo roles for my blood elves in it.

I chose a blood elf, cos I love everything about the race, not the horde or alliance. My character has no real identity in game anyway, I’m just an adventurer who has no focus in all his exploits because I can be anyone, yet in faction quests I am a horde adventurer or hero and in Legion for a brief period I was a Paladin and Hunter hero

Not since Ghostlands have I felt like a blood elf hero, yet it is blood elves that excite me most of all the groups in wow.

From an interest point of view Blood elf > Horde > Class.

Class is mechanics for gameplay, what makes playing fun, sure class lore is welcome, it’s bad not to have any, but they aren’t focused. They are generalised constructs that aren’t adapted to fit lore for faction or race. I accepted that and don’t require much detail from then though I would have welcomed being a blood elf hunter or warrior to be quite distinctive relative to an orc or dwarf - but no sick class skin that adapts for race exists. Even though the blood elves have the Farstrider ranger organisation, as a blood elf hunter I am given no customisations or unique appearances nor is playing a hunter aligned with any effort to the Farstriders. What a waste. Customisation would have helped me role play like one at least, but A little quest focus would have gone a long way to make me feel like one.

All the juicy detail is in lore of races. I wanna be working to advance the blood elves. I want to feel like I am my race’s champion. And it makes better sense the way this MMO tells it’s story to be a race champion than a global legend or even a faction one. Big enough to feel important yet not quite big enough to make it awkward I’m a world famous legend defeating hero that the text always refers to as “some adventurers”

But they are not seeing this. Their biggest charm is their races.

- - - Updated - - -

Eh personally I am against that because I just simply dislike the idea of monarchy being necessary or desirable; fantasy is rife with it. So a group lead by a prince with a fanatic following would hardly be interesting for me, personally. Maybe as and adversary, as a nostalgia drip for people trying to go back to "how it used to be". I just really find the idea of a monarchy restoration very bleh.

We do need a pragmatic human leader, but I'd loath for them to be a royal. If anything whatever reclaiming movement would surge in Lordaeron, would be far more compelling if it was a commoner harping against the divine rights of kings; hell go full secular and actually let's go for a group of humans without a strong religious component. Making them an actual threat to the monarchies by saying "why should you keep following Kings?" now that might get a lot of people behind after all the failures of the Menethils, Greymane and Wrynns.

I don’t think I will ever get tired of it. Something cool about a heroic Prince with an awesome destiny that rises to save his people eventually becoming king.

They say fantasy is rife with it, but most stuff I’ve seen, the Prince either becomes evil or is a jerk or a spoilt brat loser, and the daring heroine Lolita swoops in with her clever wit, charm to save the day with her skinny arms and tiny waste able to parry blows from blokes and monster literally 5 times her size.

I mean that’s what I’m use to seeing. Maybe you can recommend some of these fantasies to me, I love that theme ever since I read Narnia, but really never see much of it or enough of it around.

I thought Warcraft humans were about Princes and Kings anyway, I like that Blood elves have one or had, and would like to see that return, but they seem set on a Regent Lord, reminds me of LotR, Aragorn was far more interesting to have become a Gondor King than the idea of Denethor on the throne. In Warcraft I just struggle to like their humans, it at least in WoW. Maybe it’s the modelS or the gritty execution, I found nothing charming about Varian’s high king rise. Thought it was rubbish.

Maybe I see myself more as a charming blood elf kinda Prince than a burly grisly growly kind. I wonder.

[Vaedan]

Good job OP, it was really enjoyable read and I must say, I would really like to see many of your ideas making into the game. Here are some of my thoughts.

Humanity (Stormwind, Lordaeron, Gilneas, Dalaran, Kul Tiras)

After the Fourth War's "conclusion," many humans from Stormwind, Gilneas and other kingdoms felt that the Forsaken hadn't yet paid for their crimes under Sylvanas, and so many independent volunteers journeyed to Lordaeron to join the Scarlet Crusade, disliking the Argent's neutral stance and refusal to stand up for decency or humanity. The majority of the volunteers who hailed from Stormwind came from those humans suffering in Westfall, Duskwood, and Redridge with no help from the crown.

This large influx of volunteers drove up support for the Crusade among their relatives in Stormwind, and so the kingdom itself sent official support to Tirisfal to assist the Scarlets in their crusade against the Forsaken and mission to restore Lordaeron to its former glory. In response, the Crusade sent their own troops to Stormwind, helping their newfound allies in Duskwood with their undead problem. They lead the fight themselves, inspiring more to join their cause. This has resulted in the Crusade having a heavy influence in the Church of Holy Light, and having common cause with the Army of Light has also given them plenty of support from Turalyon who sits on the throne of Stormwind as Regent Lord.

The Argents, now deprived of official support from Stormwind, are forced to give up Hearthglen to the Scarlets. Today, they hold Andorhal, the Bulwark, and Chillwind Point. In the Eastern Plaguelands, they continue to battle the Scourge from Light's Hope Chapel and their new center of power: Tyr's Hand. They have rare conflicts with the Forest Trolls and Scarlets in the Eastern Plaguelands, with all three focusing on their individual fights with the Scourge in the area.

Turalyon is also technically a noble of Lordaeron, but the one currently seen as rightful ruler is the supposed son of Calia Menethil, Prince Menethil (mentioned but not by name in the datamined Scarlet propaganda). There are rumors he isn't who he says he is, but the Scarlets chalk it up to lies told by the treacherous undead to destabilize their enemies. The prince fully believes himself to be heir to the throne, with the only ones truly knowing whether he is or not being Calia who goes unheeded by Turalyon who finds himself more and more at home with the Scarlet ideals so close to the Army of Light's, and those who raised the prince telling him of his heritage. (I think it would be interesting for the truth to be ambiguous). He is every bit the ruthless pragmatist his "uncle" Arthas was, bearing a great resemblance to him in almost every respect, but wielding the legendary, albeit less-powerful Ashbringer (recovered and used as a symbol by the Crusade, even if it's not as powerful as it was before). This prince refuses to be crowned king until the undead have been purged from Lordaeron, which is seen as an admirable move by even those skeptical of his identity, knowing he has the chance to claim greater power and influence should he desire it.

Meanwhile, Stormwind re-settles Lordaeron from the south, using their momentum from the war in Arathi to push hard into the region as well as Hillsbrad, pushing the Forsaken back to Tarren Mill and Hammerfall, as well as driving out the Forest Trolls who flee to the Hinterlands en masse. The Scarlets pushed the Forsaken into Silverpine and Alterac, currently being fortified against human attack while Dalaran returns to their crater to rebuild their old kingdom. Dalaran's only other settlements are a rebuilt Ambermill Village, though they also have holdings on a few islands in Lordamere Lake and are investigating the strange phenomena of Purgation Isle off the coast of Hillsbrad. Dalaran also has significant influence in the Mage District of Stormwind, manages the affairs of the Tower of Azora in Elwynn Forest, investigates Karazhan, and assists Stormwind in the security of the Blasted Lands from Nethergarde Keep and the formerly Horde-controlled Altar of Storms. The humans' goal in the Blasted Lands is to prevent any Mag'har or fel orcs from Outland coming through the reconnected Dark Portal to join their kin in Azeroth. To this end, they make war against the encroaching Horde forces from Stranglethorn and Mudsprocket who are supported by the now-rejoined Blackrock orcs.

Kul Tiras remains on their island, with the bulk of their military focus being in Kalimdor as they seek to assist the Night Elves in regaining their rightful territory after years of Horde aggression, as well as reclaiming and rebuilding Theramore, now as a Kul Tiran colony.

I really love idea of Alliance having some unclear diplomatic ties to Scarlets. They recently renounced Wrynn family as monarchs worthy to lead them, but with Turalyon in charge, a paragon paladin blessed by the Light itself, they may reconsider. I can image them having ambassadors in notable Alliance cities, maintaining image of righteous and just group who wants to reclaim their rightful home and that they corrected their previous ways, but once we delve deeper into their holds, we discover that they are still this fanatical and xenophobic group they always were and they use their ambassadors to recruit more people of similar view to their cause.

Worgen reclaiming Gilneas and pushing hard to the Forsaken in Silverpine seems right and logical, following Stromgarde being in the hands of Alliance. I would also include them to Darkshire and majority of Duskwood as well. Darkshire was largely depopulated in Legion due to majority of citizens joined the Legion and were killed later, meaning the place is available for resettling. We've also seen gilneans experimenting on curing local worgen since cataclysm, so I can imagine Darkshire being rebuild in glorious gilnean style and being new seat of power for worgen. In this process, gilneans can substantialy bolster their ranks, which helps their efforts in Gilneas and Silverpine. One more thought regarding worgen - given their role in Darkshore Warfront and stance Genn had towards night elves, do you consider worgen helping night elves in Kalimdor as well? They actually seem to be closest ally of kaldorei now.

Regarding Kul Tiras... I'm waiting what you have for them in Kalimdor. I also think Kul Tirans may be interested in expanding their hold in EK as well, getting more influence in the Alliance. My own idea:
Following end of Fourth War and disappearance of Jaina Proudmoore, Katherine Proudmoore took up the mantle of Regent of the Kingdom in absence of current Lord Admiral. To strenghten new unity of Kul Tiras, she needs to decide what will become of House Ashvane and House Stormsong, which turned traitorous to Kul Tiras recently. New Lord Stormsong is Brannon, a nephew of former noble, whom we aided in Anglepoint Wharf. In order to become wise leader, he studies alongside other Tidesages in Shrine of Storms, taking up his family legacy. House Ashvane on the other hand have no other legit heir. Since House Ashvane does not have any legitimate heir and many members of the House were corrupted and traitorous lot, House Ashvane was officialy disbanded and Ashvane Trading Company faced severe audits and serious changes to its structures. Katherine appointed Cyrus Crestfall new leader of the company, renaming it to Boralus Trading Company. Some of the former Ashvane's employees get along well, welcoming new, way more tolerant work conditions, but there are many who got upset that Katherine disbanded one of the ancient kul tiran House of nobles in such manner. These former Ashvane loyalists leave Boralus and gather in Freehold, forming their own pirate fleet and swear their vengeance to the Admiralty.

One of the first goals of B.T.C. (Boralus Trading Company) is to secure new trade routes with their allies. In EK, they make huge investment into Menethil Harbor, which is still damaged from Cataclysm, rebuilding it in Kul Tiran fashion and renaming it to Proudmoore Harbor and also reclaiming the cove of the coast of Arathi and building a Trollbane Harbor in the proximity of Stromgarde to support their effort in northern EK. There are also rumors that B.T.C. plans to build New Southshore Harbor and Tirisfal Harbor. Some say that B.T.C. uses its funds to buy new territories and expand their influence, but it is all in the name of trade and prosperity, right?

Khaz Modan (Dwarves & Gnomes)

The united kingdom of Khaz Modan has re-settled the Searing Gorge after building a magnificent bridge between the snowy Dun Morogh and the ashy region. From Shadowforge City in Blackrock Mountain, the dwarves seek to drive the Blackrock orcs who've recently fully rejoined the Horde out of the Burning Steppes. The Wildhammers in the Hinterlands continue their eternal struggle against the Forest Trolls, unable to finish them off due to devoting so much of their efforts to battling the Dragonmaw in the Twilight Highlands. Their goal is eventually to reclaim their old home of Grim Batol, now once again occupied and used as a fortress by the Horde-aligned Dragonmaw. Forever allied with their friends in Stormwind, the dwarves offer their support in Hillsbrad from their rebuilt base of Dun Garok as well as Aerie Peak.

The dwarves of the Hinterlands surround the now Silvermoon-aligned Quel'danil Lodge after the schism between the Blood and High Elves largely dissolved once certain blood elves found their fel corruption to be slowly disappearing after prolonged exposure to the light-infused Sunwell. Focusing inward, the elves now seek only to restore their homeland, and so have turned their backs on the Forsaken for whom they can do nothing now with the Scourge and Amani at their doorstep and the Scarlets pressuring them for access to the Sunwell. Because of this, the elves don't seek to make an enemy of the Wildhammers, and so the friendship between Aerie Peak and Quel'danil Lodge continues as the two work together against the Forest Trolls in the Hinterlands.

Aside from military matters, the dwarves have taken it upon themselves to preserve the facilities of the Titans, bolstering the defenses of such locations as Uldaman, Ulduar, etc. They work in conjunction with the Frost Dwarves of the Storm Peaks who are always willing to serve their king, Muradin.

The gnomes when not assisting their dwarven benefactors continue to work on reclaiming Gnomeregan with help from their mechanically-enhanced brethren from Mechagon. Currently, the two groups work together to attempt to find a cure for the leper gnomes' cursed state, with some suggesting replacing their infected minds altogether with mechanical parts.

I think that with time skip, we shall hear more about Moira's son, Dagran Thaurissan II. With your idea of orcs forming a threat in Burning Steppes, Blackrock Mountains and Redridge, I think they can also expand to Badlands and challenge dwarves here too. To answer that, dwarves decide to fortify Loch Modan.

Night Elves

In the Eastern Kingdoms, the Night Elves' activities are relatively subdued. Due to the lack of support from Stormwind against the Horde in Kalimdor over the years, the night elves, now led by Maiev in Tyrande's absence, have returned the favor by largely abandoning the Eastern Kingdoms. Their only power center in the continent is the Twilight Grove of Duskwood, featuring a functional dream portal connecting to the Emerald Dream and Moonglade. They keep to themselves, defending the grove against corruption from the Scourge and feral worgen.

Also, quite logical. With my propsal to gilneans in Duskwood, perhaps night elves here can aid worgen in their effort to bring feral worgen to their senses? Since those worgen were summoned by Scythe of Elune, they are actually former druids of the pack, so night elves may be interested in bringing these druids back to their ranks to help them in Kalimdor.

Draenei

The Draenei, now joined by their lightforged kin from the Army of Light, have rededicated themselves to the goals of the Light and purging all opposing forces from the land. In the Eastern Kingdoms, the Draenei are relatively sparse but not rare. They admire the Scarlet Crusade for their devotion to the Light, having little experience with their more brutal past, and with encouragement from Turalyon, eagerly assist them in their crusade against the Forsaken and Scourge, while also having no qualms about killing orcs or preventing them from entering Azeroth from Outland in the Blasted Lands. They see it as a just punishment for destroying Draenor, being forced to die with it.

I would like to see Draenei building a proper city somewhere on Azeroth. Since they fit way more with humans then with night elves, I can see them relocating Exodar to EK and contribute them fully to the Alliance. I can see them settling in either Arathi or Hillsbrad to help Alliance's effort in the region, not to mention there are still Frostwolf orcs and Forsaken they can fight.

Void Elves

The Void Elves are unwelcome in the greener part of Quel'thalas due to the danger they pose to the Sunwell. Few (but not all) choose to assist their kin against the Scourge and Forest Trolls for this insult, and most remain among the forces of Stormwind, tending to steer clear of Scarlet Crusaders who don't take kindly to void practice.

There are some places that void elves may be interested in.
- During priest class hall campaign, we found out that Raven's Hill Cemetery is actually place filled with void energies, thanks to Natalie Seline. They now settle an outpost there, finding out that undead activity on the graveyard is caused by the void filling the dead bodies and animating them.
- Bastion of Twilight is a place where Twilight's Hammer delved recklessly into the void. Magister Umbric himself leads and expedition to the former cults holdings. They find out that there is still a group of former Twilight's cultists, who are in disarray since the defeat of N'Zoth and there are several groups who fight each other. With death of Old God, some of the cultists stopped hearing voices. Some of them get clarity of mind, but some descended into deeper madness. Umbric's expedition open talks with a group of elves who maintain some degree of clear mind and offer them place in the ranks of ren'dorei for sharing secrets of Twilight's Hammer with them. In this process, ren'dorei get access to dark shaman of Twilight Hammer.
- Karazhan and Deadwind pass is a place filled with vast knowledge. Ren'dorei Ambassador Keira Onyxraven leads an expedition to and set up research facility in the tower.

Orcs

With the arrival of the Mag'har orcs from AU Draenor, the Horde was finally able to convince the Blackrock orcs of the Eastern Kingdoms to rejoin their kin. Thrall justifies it by telling himself that these are the children of those orcs from the Second War, and so naturally would be raised to be violent as the Horde once was. He wants to show them a better way, and does so with assistance from the Mag'har Blackrocks who've largely adjusted to the more honorable Azerothian Horde. Recognizing the strategic value of a Horde territory in the Eastern Kingdoms, and with the recent movement for neutrality of Quel'thalas, Thrall knows they have no choice. After the escape of the Mag'har from Draenor, Thrall received word from Outland that the old planet was destabilizing even further. His shaman told him Old Draenor didn't have much time left, so he made the choice to open the Dark Portal again and usher the remainder of the Mag'har, Mok'nathal, and any ogres who chose to join the Horde into Azeroth.

Fearing this influx of potential Horde combatants, the Alliance, now with Dalaran fully recommitted to their cause, consolidated their presence in the Blasted Lands, setting up a blockade at the south beach to prevent the Horde from escorting the refugees into Azeroth where they can become enemies of humanity once more. The Horde sends troops to Grom'gol in Stranglethorn Vale, from which they support the Horde's beachhead in the Blasted Lands. At the same time, Blackrock in the Swamp of Sorrows and Dragonmaw from the Twilight Highlands support this effort to rescue their Outland kin being killed by the Alliance whenever they attempt to enter Azeroth and break Stormwind's lines.

Thrall wants to help the Forsaken, but all he's able to devote is small support due to the Outland Rescue Operation, as well as the numerous conflicts in Kalimdor with the Night Elves regaining their lost ground from the Horde. For now, all are holding.

This is actually one of the best ideas. I really like that Horde is trying to provide peaceful exodus of Outland's denizens, but get opposed by the Alliance. With the Blockade of Blasted Lands, I wonder what is the status of following strongholds/keeps:
- Nethergarde: Is it rebuild or still in ruins?
- Stonard is most likely cut of reinforcements as well?
- The Alliance's forts in Swamp of Sorrows - Harborage and Marshtide Watch are possibly expanded by humans and draenei alike to contribute to the Blockade?

Forsaken

Being driven from Lordaeron has left the Forsaken in a relatively vulnerable position. They continue to struggle in Deathknell, holding out against human attacks from the united Scarlet Crusade and Stormwind forces encroaching on them, but the outlook is bleak without Sylvanas' val'kyr bolstering their numbers with slain enemies. They make due with using the bodies of dead humans as well as recycled parts from their own dead soldiers to create more abominations to send back into battle. This has resulted in their keeping hold of Silverpine, for now. From their strongholds of the Sepulcher, Fenris Isle, Shadowfang Keep, and now with their added power center of Alterac City, the Forsaken hold out against the Scarlets pouring down from Lordaeron, Gilneans harassing Shadowfang Keep from Pyrewood Village, and Dalaran magi sniping at them with spells from Dalaran and Ambermill Village. The Alliance victory in the Stromgarde offensive of the Fourth War resulted in their loss of most of the Forsaken holdings in Hillsbrad, but they continue the fight by sending support from Alterac down to a now-fortified Tarren Mill and Durnholde Keep.

Hammerfall in Arathi is their only base left in the region, and is seen as lost. The Forsaken's current goal is nothing short of survival by any means possible as they attempt to hold out long enough for the Horde to break the Alliance's blockade of the Dark Portal so they can finally devote support to the battle in Lordaeron.

Again, great ideas. An abandoned nation in abandoned kingdom. I actually like the idea of Forsaken fortifying themselves in the mountainous region of Alterac. Given their numbers will not be great after Fourth Wars and Val'kyr gone, they will most likely imploy guerilla tactics here, setting up deadly traps and ambushes to unsuspecting intruders. They may befriend, or maybe rather mind control the oggres here to use them as meat shields.

Since Alterac is being populated by Frostwolves, which displayed mistrust towards Forsaken, how do you think those two groups will interact?

Quel'Thalas

During the Fourth War, Quel'thalas sustained heavy losses and its people demanded to know what the point of it all was. What did they have to show for so much blood and pain? Their joining the Horde only resulted in a mutual defense contract that never seemed necessary for them to call in. It was always the blood elves sending their men and women to die for orc conflicts, or at least that was the general view among the people. All the while, trolls and undead continue to rage unchecked through Quel'thalas, with not an orc in sight to help. Over time, the elves pressured their leaders to step back from the Alliance/Horde conflicts to instead focus on matters at home, namely the deteriorating situation against the Scourge and Trolls.

Meanwhile, the elves' fel taint had begun to wear off in certain cases where fel corruption was only minor, due to their proximity to the cleansing, light-infused Sunwell. Blue eyes were becoming a common sight in Quel'thalas. Coupling this with their exit from the Horde, the schism between the blood and high elves had largely dissipated in the many years that passed during the conflict in the Shadowlands. The reason for the high elves' disdain toward the blood elves was largely a political one for their membership in the Horde.

Today, the elves' focus is entirely on Quel'thalas. The recent resurgence of Forest Troll aggression has caused the Farstriders to lose their holdings in the Ghostlands while the elves simultaneously have reclaimed Suncrown and Goldenmist Village from the Scourge. Despite this, they lost the Sanctum of the Moon, giving the Scourge a relatively easy path up the Dead Scar into Eversong Woods. Tranquilien struggles to hold the line while the rangers at Farstrider Retreat combat the trolls. The efforts of the Blood Knights are entirely focused on the undead pouring up the dead scar, with regular rotations of troops being sent to Tranquilien to bolster it with their Light powers. The magisters are primarily stationed at the various sanctums and their headquarters of the Magisters' Terrace, trying to support the rest of the military with shielding, stealth, extra strength from the Sunwell, and plenty of fire to burn away the Scourge and Amani's holdings.

Recent reports from Shalandis Isle and Goldenmist Village are that the Scarlet Crusade has joined the fight, claiming a foothold in Windrunner Village and the Windrunner Spire. The elves are wary of them based on their zealous past actions, but hope both groups can focus on the undead for now. As this is going on, the Scarlets are figuratively muscling their way through the elves, demanding use of the Sunwell to further empower their paladins to carry out the Light's will. Grand Magister Rommath, who now wields most of the political power in Quel'thalas due to his emphasis on taking care of matters at home first, is currently in negotiations with Prince Menethil to exchange limited, highly controlled access of certain crusaders to the Sunwell for Scarlet support in the Ghostlands. Things are looking tenuous, but the elves are hopeful. The Scarlet Crusade would be a valuable ally against the Scourge and potentially the trolls as well, but how long could an agreement with such an ally possibly last?

The elves' current goals all focus only on their own interests. Quel'thalas is cursed by the Scourge, and their current means of healing it aren't working. Seeing the success of the Argent Crusade, Earthen Ring, and Cenarion Circle has demonstrated to the elves that perhaps old avenues should be explored once more. To this end, the elves are currently experimenting with heavily-arcane-controlled druidism at the dream portal at Seradane in the Hinterlands. Using their arcane magic, the elves have cut off its physical access to the Night Elves' holdings in Moonglade, not wanting to have to contend with them at this point in time. Another point of interest is the Whispering Forest, where the elves have discovered that the source of their ancestors' madness was a servant of the Old Gods buried deep beneath the earth who whispered to the first elven settlers on their arrival. The residual energies left by the ritual conducted by local wildlife is of interest to the new blood elven druids.

The elves are not only studying druidism, but also shamanism, though they approach it from the mage perspective of enslaving an elemental to do their bidding. This joint group of druids and shaman are called by the elves: Geomancers, a concept not foreign to Azeroth, and one far more palatable to the prideful elves than what they see as a primitive practice of worshipping animal and elemental spirits. The only ideological thing they have in common with other druids is their reverence for green dragons, as the elves have for all dragons, with possible exception of the Black Dragonflight.

For the foreseeable future, Quel'thalas would prefer to focus inward. Problems at home have gone untended for too long. Undead, Trolls, Wretched, corruption of the land. These must all be addressed before they will consider lending their aid to any one faction again. Meanwhile, independent adventurers continue to support the Horde or Alliance, whether it be out of loyalty, friendship, or simple monetary gain.

This is something I was wondering myself too. Elves were shown to never really care of larger factions and ally with them only in times of dire need. However, they usually left shortly after the threat was dealt with. In that sense, blood elves should left the Horde after restoration of Sunwell. From that moment, they heavily contributed to Horde's cause, having considerable loses and meanwhile, Quel'thalas was left to deal with its problems on its own. It is proved by the fact that with Amani resurgence in Cataclysm, Halduron had to invite Vereesa and Silver Covenant to secure Ghostlands, since they had little military left for the defense. We've also seen in Three Sisters that Ghostlands are still pretty much undead infested wasteland, which means that Horde did not helped sin'dorei to secure their kingdom and by requesting help from Silvermoon, Horde weakened sin'dorei forces which could reclaim Ghostlands once and for all.

With Alliance's presence being much stronger in northern EK and Horde's increasing friendship with Forest Trolls, I find it very natural for sin'dorei to maintain a neutral position in the world politics. If I understand you correctly, Silvermoon's official stance is that Quel'thalas is an neutral kingdom which does not answer to neither Alliance or Horde. Since Quel'thalas is historicaly affiliated with both factions, each citizen is allowed to maintain friendship with a faction they desire, but ultimately, they answer to sovereignity of Silvermoon.

In fact, this solution would be most benefitial for thalassians, since it would not drag them into conflicts they do not want to participate in and it let them deal with problems in their own kingdom. Having adventurers working alongside both faction will keep them informed on what's going on in the world.

With Silvermoon becoming neutral, what about Nightborne? They went to the Horde only because of blood elves, so should they leave the Horde as well? Truth be told, Fourth War could make Nightborne question their allegiance to the Horde (at least Valtrois was wondering if that was the right choice), so what role would they take?

4)from what we see in the game I doubt that the blood elves had big losses.
the blood elves already have botanists, only blizzard won't let us play as druids!
Rommath would never allow human trash to demand anything of him, before being blackmailed by anyone he would give the order to go back to eversong wood and prepare from there any counter attack protected by the magic shield. It is also impossible for quelthalas to lose territory in eversong since the magic shield became active again. Even so, I think that at this moment it is impossible for the elves of quelthalas to have problems at home. they have the sunwell once again and now radiating light that damages the undeads it should be relatively easy to repel any undead attacks today. also the blood elves can create a powerful army of blood golems with which to defend themselves. Quelthalas should be the strongest military power in the horde today and they should always maintain an alliance with Suramar

I believe I read somewhere that before Third War, there were high elf druids, but their magic was considered primitive and was not many high elves wanted to delve into these magic, seeing them inferior. It may be from RPG, which is non canon, I'm not really sure.

I'm also afraid that Ban'dinoriel is not functional. It was powered by Sunwell which is restored, but three moonstones were vital in maintaining it and as far as we know, these crystals were not recovered and there is no evidence this changed as of today. Truth be told, Ghostlands are still infested with undead and we've seen Amani still encrouches in Eversong, so it is still most likely not working at the moment.

[Beloren]

This is something I was wondering myself too. Elves were shown to never really care of larger factions and ally with them only in times of dire need. However, they usually left shortly after the threat was dealt with. In that sense, blood elves should left the Horde after restoration of Sunwell. From that moment, they heavily contributed to Horde's cause, having considerable loses and meanwhile, Quel'thalas was left to deal with its problems on its own. It is proved by the fact that with Amani resurgence in Cataclysm, Halduron had to invite Vereesa and Silver Covenant to secure Ghostlands, since they had little military left for the defense. We've also seen in Three Sisters that Ghostlands are still pretty much undead infested wasteland, which means that Horde did not helped sin'dorei to secure their kingdom and by requesting help from Silvermoon, Horde weakened sin'dorei forces which could reclaim Ghostlands once and for all.

With Alliance's presence being much stronger in northern EK and Horde's increasing friendship with Forest Trolls, I find it very natural for sin'dorei to maintain a neutral position in the world politics. If I understand you correctly, Silvermoon's official stance is that Quel'thalas is an neutral kingdom which does not answer to neither Alliance or Horde. Since Quel'thalas is historicaly affiliated with both factions, each citizen is allowed to maintain friendship with a faction they desire, but ultimately, they answer to sovereignity of Silvermoon.

In fact, this solution would be most benefitial for thalassians, since it would not drag them into conflicts they do not want to participate in and it let them deal with problems in their own kingdom. Having adventurers working alongside both faction will keep them informed on what's going on in the world.

With Silvermoon becoming neutral, what about Nightborne? They went to the Horde only because of blood elves, so should they leave the Horde as well? Truth be told, Fourth War could make Nightborne question their allegiance to the Horde (at least Valtrois was wondering if that was the right choice), so what role would they take?

The atypical behaviour of blood now is because blizzard can’t be bothered to write anything for anyone but the two factions.

Race stories is for their intro expansion or level 1-20 and then they become one with the faction. Lose all their personality and the individuality that drew us to them. Well not entirely, but then as a people seems to disappear with largely the factions pursuits the only ones written.

I’m quite bored of it and really feel this is the wrong approach.

Instead of lump blood elves in with the horde or night elves with the alliance

Let the horde manage humans, dwarves, gnomes and the Alliance Orcs, Tauren, Trolls and Goblins - with Night elves , Thalassian elves and Undead being three additional major individual developments.

Draenei & Pandaren being influential outsiders that often feature in all the above.

Yes, BElf players can only fight for the NElf players for the alliance, but DK undead are with their races though forsaken are horde affiliated.

I’d have later taken those races completely out of the factions but left a faction of them staying to help for different motivations. However the same works with them in the factions but really not involving themselves with the vast majority of clashes.

[Rhlor]

Good job OP, it was really enjoyable read and I must say, I would really like to see many of your ideas making into the game. Here are some of my thoughts.



I really love idea of Alliance having some unclear diplomatic ties to Scarlets. They recently renounced Wrynn family as monarchs worthy to lead them, but with Turalyon in charge, a paragon paladin blessed by the Light itself, they may reconsider. I can image them having ambassadors in notable Alliance cities, maintaining image of righteous and just group who wants to reclaim their rightful home and that they corrected their previous ways, but once we delve deeper into their holds, we discover that they are still this fanatical and xenophobic group they always were and they use their ambassadors to recruit more people of similar view to their cause.

Worgen reclaiming Gilneas and pushing hard to the Forsaken in Silverpine seems right and logical, following Stromgarde being in the hands of Alliance. I would also include them to Darkshire and majority of Duskwood as well. Darkshire was largely depopulated in Legion due to majority of citizens joined the Legion and were killed later, meaning the place is available for resettling. We've also seen gilneans experimenting on curing local worgen since cataclysm, so I can imagine Darkshire being rebuild in glorious gilnean style and being new seat of power for worgen. In this process, gilneans can substantialy bolster their ranks, which helps their efforts in Gilneas and Silverpine. One more thought regarding worgen - given their role in Darkshore Warfront and stance Genn had towards night elves, do you consider worgen helping night elves in Kalimdor as well? They actually seem to be closest ally of kaldorei now.

Regarding Kul Tiras... I'm waiting what you have for them in Kalimdor. I also think Kul Tirans may be interested in expanding their hold in EK as well, getting more influence in the Alliance. My own idea:
Following end of Fourth War and disappearance of Jaina Proudmoore, Katherine Proudmoore took up the mantle of Regent of the Kingdom in absence of current Lord Admiral. To strenghten new unity of Kul Tiras, she needs to decide what will become of House Ashvane and House Stormsong, which turned traitorous to Kul Tiras recently. New Lord Stormsong is Brannon, a nephew of former noble, whom we aided in Anglepoint Wharf. In order to become wise leader, he studies alongside other Tidesages in Shrine of Storms, taking up his family legacy. House Ashvane on the other hand have no other legit heir. Since House Ashvane does not have any legitimate heir and many members of the House were corrupted and traitorous lot, House Ashvane was officialy disbanded and Ashvane Trading Company faced severe audits and serious changes to its structures. Katherine appointed Cyrus Crestfall new leader of the company, renaming it to Boralus Trading Company. Some of the former Ashvane's employees get along well, welcoming new, way more tolerant work conditions, but there are many who got upset that Katherine disbanded one of the ancient kul tiran House of nobles in such manner. These former Ashvane loyalists leave Boralus and gather in Freehold, forming their own pirate fleet and swear their vengeance to the Admiralty.

One of the first goals of B.T.C. (Boralus Trading Company) is to secure new trade routes with their allies. In EK, they make huge investment into Menethil Harbor, which is still damaged from Cataclysm, rebuilding it in Kul Tiran fashion and renaming it to Proudmoore Harbor and also reclaiming the cove of the coast of Arathi and building a Trollbane Harbor in the proximity of Stromgarde to support their effort in northern EK. There are also rumors that B.T.C. plans to build New Southshore Harbor and Tirisfal Harbor. Some say that B.T.C. uses its funds to buy new territories and expand their influence, but it is all in the name of trade and prosperity, right?




I think that with time skip, we shall hear more about Moira's son, Dagran Thaurissan II. With your idea of orcs forming a threat in Burning Steppes, Blackrock Mountains and Redridge, I think they can also expand to Badlands and challenge dwarves here too. To answer that, dwarves decide to fortify Loch Modan.




Also, quite logical. With my propsal to gilneans in Duskwood, perhaps night elves here can aid worgen in their effort to bring feral worgen to their senses? Since those worgen were summoned by Scythe of Elune, they are actually former druids of the pack, so night elves may be interested in bringing these druids back to their ranks to help them in Kalimdor.




I would like to see Draenei building a proper city somewhere on Azeroth. Since they fit way more with humans then with night elves, I can see them relocating Exodar to EK and contribute them fully to the Alliance. I can see them settling in either Arathi or Hillsbrad to help Alliance's effort in the region, not to mention there are still Frostwolf orcs and Forsaken they can fight.




There are some places that void elves may be interested in.
- During priest class hall campaign, we found out that Raven's Hill Cemetery is actually place filled with void energies, thanks to Natalie Seline. They now settle an outpost there, finding out that undead activity on the graveyard is caused by the void filling the dead bodies and animating them.
- Bastion of Twilight is a place where Twilight's Hammer delved recklessly into the void. Magister Umbric himself leads and expedition to the former cults holdings. They find out that there is still a group of former Twilight's cultists, who are in disarray since the defeat of N'Zoth and there are several groups who fight each other. With death of Old God, some of the cultists stopped hearing voices. Some of them get clarity of mind, but some descended into deeper madness. Umbric's expedition open talks with a group of elves who maintain some degree of clear mind and offer them place in the ranks of ren'dorei for sharing secrets of Twilight's Hammer with them. In this process, ren'dorei get access to dark shaman of Twilight Hammer.
- Karazhan and Deadwind pass is a place filled with vast knowledge. Ren'dorei Ambassador Keira Onyxraven leads an expedition to and set up research facility in the tower.




This is actually one of the best ideas. I really like that Horde is trying to provide peaceful exodus of Outland's denizens, but get opposed by the Alliance. With the Blockade of Blasted Lands, I wonder what is the status of following strongholds/keeps:
- Nethergarde: Is it rebuild or still in ruins?
- Stonard is most likely cut of reinforcements as well?
- The Alliance's forts in Swamp of Sorrows - Harborage and Marshtide Watch are possibly expanded by humans and draenei alike to contribute to the Blockade?



Again, great ideas. An abandoned nation in abandoned kingdom. I actually like the idea of Forsaken fortifying themselves in the mountainous region of Alterac. Given their numbers will not be great after Fourth Wars and Val'kyr gone, they will most likely imploy guerilla tactics here, setting up deadly traps and ambushes to unsuspecting intruders. They may befriend, or maybe rather mind control the oggres here to use them as meat shields.

Since Alterac is being populated by Frostwolves, which displayed mistrust towards Forsaken, how do you think those two groups will interact?




This is something I was wondering myself too. Elves were shown to never really care of larger factions and ally with them only in times of dire need. However, they usually left shortly after the threat was dealt with. In that sense, blood elves should left the Horde after restoration of Sunwell. From that moment, they heavily contributed to Horde's cause, having considerable loses and meanwhile, Quel'thalas was left to deal with its problems on its own. It is proved by the fact that with Amani resurgence in Cataclysm, Halduron had to invite Vereesa and Silver Covenant to secure Ghostlands, since they had little military left for the defense. We've also seen in Three Sisters that Ghostlands are still pretty much undead infested wasteland, which means that Horde did not helped sin'dorei to secure their kingdom and by requesting help from Silvermoon, Horde weakened sin'dorei forces which could reclaim Ghostlands once and for all.

With Alliance's presence being much stronger in northern EK and Horde's increasing friendship with Forest Trolls, I find it very natural for sin'dorei to maintain a neutral position in the world politics. If I understand you correctly, Silvermoon's official stance is that Quel'thalas is an neutral kingdom which does not answer to neither Alliance or Horde. Since Quel'thalas is historicaly affiliated with both factions, each citizen is allowed to maintain friendship with a faction they desire, but ultimately, they answer to sovereignity of Silvermoon.

In fact, this solution would be most benefitial for thalassians, since it would not drag them into conflicts they do not want to participate in and it let them deal with problems in their own kingdom. Having adventurers working alongside both faction will keep them informed on what's going on in the world.

With Silvermoon becoming neutral, what about Nightborne? They went to the Horde only because of blood elves, so should they leave the Horde as well? Truth be told, Fourth War could make Nightborne question their allegiance to the Horde (at least Valtrois was wondering if that was the right choice), so what role would they take?



I believe I read somewhere that before Third War, there were high elf druids, but their magic was considered primitive and was not many high elves wanted to delve into these magic, seeing them inferior. It may be from RPG, which is non canon, I'm not really sure.

I'm also afraid that Ban'dinoriel is not functional. It was powered by Sunwell which is restored, but three moonstones were vital in maintaining it and as far as we know, these crystals were not recovered and there is no evidence this changed as of today. Truth be told, Ghostlands are still infested with undead and we've seen Amani still encrouches in Eversong, so it is still most likely not working at the moment.

High Botanist Freywinn

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Powering_our_Defenses

also in the blood of the highborns it is seen how the magisters can lift the barrier themselves without the help of any artifact.

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That's not a druid set, it's just a robe that happens to look druid ish. It uses the same texture as the first robe NE druids start with, and a cloth robe green you can find in low level areas. Imo it has more to do with them working with plants than with them being druids. As blood elf players can't be druids, it's unlikely that they were intended to be so when they were implemented in BC.

The large runestones focus the energy down to where the shield should enclose around, sort of like tent stakes, and the orbs act as bridges between them, like tent poles. Sure, the elves can power the shield themselves or use the Sunwell, but without that structure, the energy can't be focused where it should be to take shape as a barrier.

If you look closely at the map, you can see that Quel'lithien is indeed managed by Quel'thalas again, as is Quel'danil in the Hinterlands, though Quel'lithien is currently cut off as the Scourge from Deatholme controls the main Quel'thalas gate in the Ghostlands while they control the Plaguelands side. It would serve as a questing hub in the EPL to advance the BE's story of their war against the Scourge. They're attempting to be more proactive in certain areas, but they've always been more reclusive, and with the threats in their immediate vicinity, they can't expand much at the moment, and likely won't until their numbers demand it, which is a long way off, considering currently 10% of the original population at most is occupying the space that held 10x that amount before Arthas attacked.

I repeat the objective would be to restore the entire kingdom and attack their enemies. At present there should be no threat to the safety of the blood elves and it should be they who advance on their enemies

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Eh personally I am against that because I just simply dislike the idea of monarchy being necessary or desirable; fantasy is rife with it. So a group lead by a prince with a fanatic following would hardly be interesting for me, personally. Maybe as and adversary, as a nostalgia drip for people trying to go back to "how it used to be". I just really find the idea of a monarchy restoration very bleh.

We do need a pragmatic human leader, but I'd loath for them to be a royal. If anything whatever reclaiming movement would surge in Lordaeron, would be far more compelling if it was a commoner harping against the divine rights of kings; hell go full secular and actually let's go for a group of humans without a strong religious component. Making them an actual threat to the monarchies by saying "why should you keep following Kings?" now that might get a lot of people behind after all the failures of the Menethils, Greymane and Wrynns.

i guess you didn't like the end of the return of the king with aragon being the king of gondor

[Koryn123]

Good job OP, it was really enjoyable read and I must say, I would really like to see many of your ideas making into the game. Here are some of my thoughts.

I really love idea of Alliance having some unclear diplomatic ties to Scarlets. They recently renounced Wrynn family as monarchs worthy to lead them, but with Turalyon in charge, a paragon paladin blessed by the Light itself, they may reconsider. I can image them having ambassadors in notable Alliance cities, maintaining image of righteous and just group who wants to reclaim their rightful home and that they corrected their previous ways, but once we delve deeper into their holds, we discover that they are still this fanatical and xenophobic group they always were and they use their ambassadors to recruit more people of similar view to their cause.

The thing I wanted to do was to set up these factions as new realities, not a group to be killed off or swept aside in a few questing zones or dungeons. This is a kingdom and a world power, whether Stormwind likes it or not. They can be hostile and start a costly war out of principle, or they can open up diplomatic relations and be part of Lordaeron's restoration. To that end, I'm trying to make the Scarlets slightly less radical, think Arthas in Stratholme levels of radical. They don't want to kill an entire village of innocents to be certain the plague isn't spreading, but they will, without hesitation if there's no other option.

Worgen reclaiming Gilneas and pushing hard to the Forsaken in Silverpine seems right and logical, following Stromgarde being in the hands of Alliance. I would also include them to Darkshire and majority of Duskwood as well. Darkshire was largely depopulated in Legion due to majority of citizens joined the Legion and were killed later, meaning the place is available for resettling. We've also seen gilneans experimenting on curing local worgen since cataclysm, so I can imagine Darkshire being rebuild in glorious gilnean style and being new seat of power for worgen. In this process, gilneans can substantialy bolster their ranks, which helps their efforts in Gilneas and Silverpine. One more thought regarding worgen - given their role in Darkshore Warfront and stance Genn had towards night elves, do you consider worgen helping night elves in Kalimdor as well? They actually seem to be closest ally of kaldorei now.

It'd be possible for them to be in Duskwood, but it's still a Stormwind territory, so their presence wouldn't be to settle it with their own towns, but just working out of the currently existing human buildings to cure worgen. It's also possible they'd help the Night Elves, but I'm trying to make the Night Elves a bit more independent as they were in WC3. At the moment, I'm using Kul Tiras' history with Daelin Proudmoore and Theramore as the Night Elves' primary partner in Kalimdor.

Regarding Kul Tiras... I'm waiting what you have for them in Kalimdor. I also think Kul Tirans may be interested in expanding their hold in EK as well, getting more influence in the Alliance. My own idea:
Following end of Fourth War and disappearance of Jaina Proudmoore, Katherine Proudmoore took up the mantle of Regent of the Kingdom in absence of current Lord Admiral. To strenghten new unity of Kul Tiras, she needs to decide what will become of House Ashvane and House Stormsong, which turned traitorous to Kul Tiras recently. New Lord Stormsong is Brannon, a nephew of former noble, whom we aided in Anglepoint Wharf. In order to become wise leader, he studies alongside other Tidesages in Shrine of Storms, taking up his family legacy. House Ashvane on the other hand have no other legit heir. Since House Ashvane does not have any legitimate heir and many members of the House were corrupted and traitorous lot, House Ashvane was officialy disbanded and Ashvane Trading Company faced severe audits and serious changes to its structures. Katherine appointed Cyrus Crestfall new leader of the company, renaming it to Boralus Trading Company. Some of the former Ashvane's employees get along well, welcoming new, way more tolerant work conditions, but there are many who got upset that Katherine disbanded one of the ancient kul tiran House of nobles in such manner. These former Ashvane loyalists leave Boralus and gather in Freehold, forming their own pirate fleet and swear their vengeance to the Admiralty.

One of the first goals of B.T.C. (Boralus Trading Company) is to secure new trade routes with their allies. In EK, they make huge investment into Menethil Harbor, which is still damaged from Cataclysm, rebuilding it in Kul Tiran fashion and renaming it to Proudmoore Harbor and also reclaiming the cove of the coast of Arathi and building a Trollbane Harbor in the proximity of Stromgarde to support their effort in northern EK. There are also rumors that B.T.C. plans to build New Southshore Harbor and Tirisfal Harbor. Some say that B.T.C. uses its funds to buy new territories and expand their influence, but it is all in the name of trade and prosperity, right?

I'm operating primarily on pre-BfA Kul Tiras knowledge, as I haven't yet quested through their zones but plan to once Shadowlands leveling takes effect. Personally, I'm not a fan at all of the whole ocean-worship thing, and going on about the tides as part of their everyday speech is kind of dumb, especially since Daelin was never like "Jaina! Bless the tides and the fish and my sails that you're okay." Blizz seems intent on making every human kingdom completely different with nothing that unites them, such as being part of the Church of Holy Light. That's part of the reason why I'm using them to pull on some Classic Kul Tiras/Theramore nostalgia by making them an antagonist for the orcs again and partner for the night elves.

I think that with time skip, we shall hear more about Moira's son, Dagran Thaurissan II. With your idea of orcs forming a threat in Burning Steppes, Blackrock Mountains and Redridge, I think they can also expand to Badlands and challenge dwarves here too. To answer that, dwarves decide to fortify Loch Modan.

Yup, he's no doubt preparing to be crowned king soon, but my goal with this was to make a world where the nations themselves are the main characters. I hate quests where the faction leader is my sidekick. The idea is to make smaller individual problems in every geographic area, where none are the end of the world, and thus your faction leader has more important diplomatic things and matters of state keeping them busy, so busy that you're reporting to a military captain in the area, not bothering the faction leader. The faction leaders should be celebrities not often seen in public, so when you do, it's an event, like Thrall pre-Cata.

Also, quite logical. With my proposal to gilneans in Duskwood, perhaps night elves here can aid worgen in their effort to bring feral worgen to their senses? Since those worgen were summoned by Scythe of Elune, they are actually former druids of the pack, so night elves may be interested in bringing these druids back to their ranks to help them in Kalimdor.

At the moment, the idea is to make the Night Elves not care much about the Alliance in the Eastern Kingdoms due to how useless they've been. The Night Elves joined the Alliance to keep their people safe (same as the Blood Elves for the Horde), and the result has only been the Night Elves sending their troops on Alliance campaigns to die in foreign wars, with very little to show for their partnership. They are very angry and don't have the patience. There may be smaller groups of independent elves helping the Gilneans in Duskwood to cure worgen, but the majority of night elf society right now is fixed on vengeance and wrath, punishing the Horde for what it's done to them and rightly reclaiming their territory.

I would like to see Draenei building a proper city somewhere on Azeroth. Since they fit way more with humans then with night elves, I can see them relocating Exodar to EK and contribute them fully to the Alliance. I can see them settling in either Arathi or Hillsbrad to help Alliance's effort in the region, not to mention there are still Frostwolf orcs and Forsaken they can fight.

I can't think of where it would be, but possibly they might settle in Desolace and create a few bio-domes like we see in Netherstorm, trying to terraform the zone to be suitable for life, like the druids there.

There are some places that void elves may be interested in.
- During priest class hall campaign, we found out that Raven's Hill Cemetery is actually place filled with void energies, thanks to Natalie Seline. They now settle an outpost there, finding out that undead activity on the graveyard is caused by the void filling the dead bodies and animating them.
- Bastion of Twilight is a place where Twilight's Hammer delved recklessly into the void. Magister Umbric himself leads and expedition to the former cults holdings. They find out that there is still a group of former Twilight's cultists, who are in disarray since the defeat of N'Zoth and there are several groups who fight each other. With death of Old God, some of the cultists stopped hearing voices. Some of them get clarity of mind, but some descended into deeper madness. Umbric's expedition open talks with a group of elves who maintain some degree of clear mind and offer them place in the ranks of ren'dorei for sharing secrets of Twilight's Hammer with them. In this process, ren'dorei get access to dark shaman of Twilight Hammer.
- Karazhan and Deadwind pass is a place filled with vast knowledge. Ren'dorei Ambassador Keira Onyxraven leads an expedition to and set up research facility in the tower.

At the moment, the Bastion of Twilight is held by the Dragonmaw, but they might be interested in Karazhan and could hang out with the Kirin Tor to study the tower with them.

This is actually one of the best ideas. I really like that Horde is trying to provide peaceful exodus of Outland's denizens, but get opposed by the Alliance. With the Blockade of Blasted Lands, I wonder what is the status of following strongholds/keeps:
- Nethergarde: Is it rebuild or still in ruins?
- Stonard is most likely cut of reinforcements as well?
- The Alliance's forts in Swamp of Sorrows - Harborage and Marshtide Watch are possibly expanded by humans and draenei alike to contribute to the Blockade?

Nethergarde is rebuilt and run by Dalaran again, and Stormwind have built their own garrison on top of the ruins of the formerly-Horde base of Dreadmaul Hold. The Alliance are very serious about preventing the Horde from increasing their numbers.

The Alliance's garrison controls the road up to the Swamp of Sorrows and prevents Stonard from attacking from the north.

The Alliance base in Swamp of Sorrows is occupied with trying to disrupt Mudsprocket which is acting as a harbor for the Blackrock and Dragonmaw to get to the Blasted Lands to help break the blockade.

Again, great ideas. An abandoned nation in abandoned kingdom. I actually like the idea of Forsaken fortifying themselves in the mountainous region of Alterac. Given their numbers will not be great after Fourth Wars and Val'kyr gone, they will most likely imploy guerilla tactics here, setting up deadly traps and ambushes to unsuspecting intruders. They may befriend, or maybe rather mind control the oggres here to use them as meat shields.

Since Alterac is being populated by Frostwolves, which displayed mistrust towards Forsaken, how do you think those two groups will interact?

The Forsaken's primary method of keeping their strength is using the bodies of dead soldiers both human and Forsaken to create more abominations, recycling parts. They have a few necromancers, but their talents are being put to use in Northrend for what I've got planned for the Northrend map. They likely don't have many banshees left as most would probably have been fiercely loyal to Sylvanas and either be dead or have followed her into the Shadowlands. But who knows, there may be some left who could have tried to mind control the ogres in Alterac (who were the ogres Sylvanas originally charmed back in WC3).

Currently, the goal is to survive, so the Frostwolves and Forsaken are stuck with one another, especially since they know that Thrall and the rest of the Horde plan to come and help the fight, they know they should help the Forsaken now as well.

This is something I was wondering myself too. Elves were shown to never really care of larger factions and ally with them only in times of dire need. However, they usually left shortly after the threat was dealt with. In that sense, blood elves should left the Horde after restoration of Sunwell. From that moment, they heavily contributed to Horde's cause, having considerable loses and meanwhile, Quel'thalas was left to deal with its problems on its own. It is proved by the fact that with Amani resurgence in Cataclysm, Halduron had to invite Vereesa and Silver Covenant to secure Ghostlands, since they had little military left for the defense. We've also seen in Three Sisters that Ghostlands are still pretty much undead infested wasteland, which means that Horde did not helped sin'dorei to secure their kingdom and by requesting help from Silvermoon, Horde weakened sin'dorei forces which could reclaim Ghostlands once and for all.

With Alliance's presence being much stronger in northern EK and Horde's increasing friendship with Forest Trolls, I find it very natural for sin'dorei to maintain a neutral position in the world politics. If I understand you correctly, Silvermoon's official stance is that Quel'thalas is an neutral kingdom which does not answer to neither Alliance or Horde. Since Quel'thalas is historicaly affiliated with both factions, each citizen is allowed to maintain friendship with a faction they desire, but ultimately, they answer to sovereignity of Silvermoon.

In fact, this solution would be most benefitial for thalassians, since it would not drag them into conflicts they do not want to participate in and it let them deal with problems in their own kingdom. Having adventurers working alongside both faction will keep them informed on what's going on in the world.

With Silvermoon becoming neutral, what about Nightborne? They went to the Horde only because of blood elves, so should they leave the Horde as well? Truth be told, Fourth War could make Nightborne question their allegiance to the Horde (at least Valtrois was wondering if that was the right choice), so what role would they take?

Yes, Quel'thalas itself is neutral while independent adventurers serve the Horde or Alliance as mercenaries, to explain gameplay. Functionally, it would work just like Pandaren do, where at the end of their zone's questing, the time would come to leave and they could choose which faction to support.

The Nightborne are Silvermoon's closest and pretty much only friend right now. The Nightborne have also withdrawn from the Horde, having no reason to participate in their current conflicts. They also have their own problems in the Broken Isles with the Night Elves' current aggressive push to reclaim all their old territory. There may be friction with the Nightborne as well.

I believe I read somewhere that before Third War, there were high elf druids, but their magic was considered primitive and was not many high elves wanted to delve into these magic, seeing them inferior. It may be from RPG, which is non canon, I'm not really sure.

I'm also afraid that Ban'dinoriel is not functional. It was powered by Sunwell which is restored, but three moonstones were vital in maintaining it and as far as we know, these crystals were not recovered and there is no evidence this changed as of today. Truth be told, Ghostlands are still infested with undead and we've seen Amani still encrouches in Eversong, so it is still most likely not working at the moment.

RPG, non-canon, and likely retconned to have been mages who set up the elven runestones. These druids would be the same as Blood Knights were for paladins. They use arcane magic to manipulate nature and they study it as another school of magic as opposed to worshipping primitive nature spirits for the power. For shamanism, they view it as the same as a frost mage enslaving an elemental, and that's precisely what they do. Both the elven druids and shaman are called geomancers and they're just another branch of the Magisters along with the mages and warlocks.

Yes, I agree, Ban'dinoriel shouldn't work. It's also a boring and contrived deus ex machina plot device which shouldn't exist. Lor'themar never mentions in the post-BC short story that the Scourge was no longer a threat due to having the Sunwell back, so I take that to mean that without Kael's verdant spheres which originated as orbs bridging the gap between the Sunwell's/Magisters' energies and the runestones around Quel'thalas, the shield can't work.

With this idea of mine, I wanted to make the problems big ones for each zone, so I don't want the elves to have a get out of jail free card with an impenetrable super shield. At most, if they do have one, it should cover Silvermoon only, and thus not be an option because they don't want to lose Eversong Woods as well.

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I repeat the objective would be to restore the entire kingdom and attack their enemies. At present there should be no threat to the safety of the blood elves and it should be they who advance on their enemies

Lor'themar said in his short story I believe that without the Forsaken's help as reinforcements, they'd be pushed back to Eversong Woods, and they've only spent more elven lives in orc wars since then, going through two Horde civil wars and 3 expansions of Horde/Alliance war, not to mention war against the Legion and Lich King. I can't imagine they had many kids who've now grown up to replace those numbers. There needs to be some danger, so that's why the trolls have beaten Farstrider Enclave in the Ghostlands. That's really the only ground the elves have lost to the trolls, who've just bolstered their position at Tor'Watha and are currently trying to take more ground from the elves but not succeeding yet.

The Elves have gained ground: Goldenmist and Suncrown Village. They've both lost and gained in this scenario.

[Rhlor]

The thing I wanted to do was to set up these factions as new realities, not a group to be killed off or swept aside in a few questing zones or dungeons. This is a kingdom and a world power, whether Stormwind likes it or not. They can be hostile and start a costly war out of principle, or they can open up diplomatic relations and be part of Lordaeron's restoration. To that end, I'm trying to make the Scarlets slightly less radical, think Arthas in Stratholme levels of radical. They don't want to kill an entire village of innocents to be certain the plague isn't spreading, but they will, without hesitation if there's no other option.



It'd be possible for them to be in Duskwood, but it's still a Stormwind territory, so their presence wouldn't be to settle it with their own towns, but just working out of the currently existing human buildings to cure worgen. It's also possible they'd help the Night Elves, but I'm trying to make the Night Elves a bit more independent as they were in WC3. At the moment, I'm using Kul Tiras' history with Daelin Proudmoore and Theramore as the Night Elves' primary partner in Kalimdor.



I'm operating primarily on pre-BfA Kul Tiras knowledge, as I haven't yet quested through their zones but plan to once Shadowlands leveling takes effect. Personally, I'm not a fan at all of the whole ocean-worship thing, and going on about the tides as part of their everyday speech is kind of dumb, especially since Daelin was never like "Jaina! Bless the tides and the fish and my sails that you're okay." Blizz seems intent on making every human kingdom completely different with nothing that unites them, such as being part of the Church of Holy Light. That's part of the reason why I'm using them to pull on some Classic Kul Tiras/Theramore nostalgia by making them an antagonist for the orcs again and partner for the night elves.



Yup, he's no doubt preparing to be crowned king soon, but my goal with this was to make a world where the nations themselves are the main characters. I hate quests where the faction leader is my sidekick. The idea is to make smaller individual problems in every geographic area, where none are the end of the world, and thus your faction leader has more important diplomatic things and matters of state keeping them busy, so busy that you're reporting to a military captain in the area, not bothering the faction leader. The faction leaders should be celebrities not often seen in public, so when you do, it's an event, like Thrall pre-Cata.



At the moment, the idea is to make the Night Elves not care much about the Alliance in the Eastern Kingdoms due to how useless they've been. The Night Elves joined the Alliance to keep their people safe (same as the Blood Elves for the Horde), and the result has only been the Night Elves sending their troops on Alliance campaigns to die in foreign wars, with very little to show for their partnership. They are very angry and don't have the patience. There may be smaller groups of independent elves helping the Gilneans in Duskwood to cure worgen, but the majority of night elf society right now is fixed on vengeance and wrath, punishing the Horde for what it's done to them and rightly reclaiming their territory.



I can't think of where it would be, but possibly they might settle in Desolace and create a few bio-domes like we see in Netherstorm, trying to terraform the zone to be suitable for life, like the druids there.



At the moment, the Bastion of Twilight is held by the Dragonmaw, but they might be interested in Karazhan and could hang out with the Kirin Tor to study the tower with them.




Nethergarde is rebuilt and run by Dalaran again, and Stormwind have built their own garrison on top of the ruins of the formerly-Horde base of Dreadmaul Hold. The Alliance are very serious about preventing the Horde from increasing their numbers.

The Alliance's garrison controls the road up to the Swamp of Sorrows and prevents Stonard from attacking from the north.

The Alliance base in Swamp of Sorrows is occupied with trying to disrupt Mudsprocket which is acting as a harbor for the Blackrock and Dragonmaw to get to the Blasted Lands to help break the blockade.



The Forsaken's primary method of keeping their strength is using the bodies of dead soldiers both human and Forsaken to create more abominations, recycling parts. They have a few necromancers, but their talents are being put to use in Northrend for what I've got planned for the Northrend map. They likely don't have many banshees left as most would probably have been fiercely loyal to Sylvanas and either be dead or have followed her into the Shadowlands. But who knows, there may be some left who could have tried to mind control the ogres in Alterac (who were the ogres Sylvanas originally charmed back in WC3).

Currently, the goal is to survive, so the Frostwolves and Forsaken are stuck with one another, especially since they know that Thrall and the rest of the Horde plan to come and help the fight, they know they should help the Forsaken now as well.




Yes, Quel'thalas itself is neutral while independent adventurers serve the Horde or Alliance as mercenaries, to explain gameplay. Functionally, it would work just like Pandaren do, where at the end of their zone's questing, the time would come to leave and they could choose which faction to support.

The Nightborne are Silvermoon's closest and pretty much only friend right now. The Nightborne have also withdrawn from the Horde, having no reason to participate in their current conflicts. They also have their own problems in the Broken Isles with the Night Elves' current aggressive push to reclaim all their old territory. There may be friction with the Nightborne as well.



RPG, non-canon, and likely retconned to have been mages who set up the elven runestones. These druids would be the same as Blood Knights were for paladins. They use arcane magic to manipulate nature and they study it as another school of magic as opposed to worshipping primitive nature spirits for the power. For shamanism, they view it as the same as a frost mage enslaving an elemental, and that's precisely what they do. Both the elven druids and shaman are called geomancers and they're just another branch of the Magisters along with the mages and warlocks.

Yes, I agree, Ban'dinoriel shouldn't work. It's also a boring and contrived deus ex machina plot device which shouldn't exist. Lor'themar never mentions in the post-BC short story that the Scourge was no longer a threat due to having the Sunwell back, so I take that to mean that without Kael's verdant spheres which originated as orbs bridging the gap between the Sunwell's/Magisters' energies and the runestones around Quel'thalas, the shield can't work.

With this idea of mine, I wanted to make the problems big ones for each zone, so I don't want the elves to have a get out of jail free card with an impenetrable super shield. At most, if they do have one, it should cover Silvermoon only, and thus not be an option because they don't want to lose Eversong Woods as well.

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Lor'themar said in his short story I believe that without the Forsaken's help as reinforcements, they'd be pushed back to Eversong Woods, and they've only spent more elven lives in orc wars since then, going through two Horde civil wars and 3 expansions of Horde/Alliance war, not to mention war against the Legion and Lich King. I can't imagine they had many kids who've now grown up to replace those numbers. There needs to be some danger, so that's why the trolls have beaten Farstrider Enclave in the Ghostlands. That's really the only ground the elves have lost to the trolls, who've just bolstered their position at Tor'Watha and are currently trying to take more ground from the elves but not succeeding yet.

The Elves have gained ground: Goldenmist and Suncrown Village. They've both lost and gained in this scenario.

but blood elves now have the ability to create armies of blood golems! We saw how the blood elves use those blood golems as front line forces! right now the military power of the blood elves is enormous

[Koryn123]

but blood elves now have the ability to create armies of blood golems! We saw how the blood elves use those blood golems as front line forces! right now the military power of the blood elves is enormous

They already had golems powered by arcane. Either way, it's a big statue that punches things and can be broken with sufficient force, only this one is powered by blood magic. What's the difference in the grand scheme of things?

I'd argue they would have even fewer blood golems. Arcane is plentiful with the Sunwell, but blood is limited.

[Combatbutler]

They already had golems powered by arcane. Either way, it's a big statue that punches things and can be broken with sufficient force, only this one is powered by blood magic. What's the difference in the grand scheme of things?

I'd argue they would have even fewer blood golems. Arcane is plentiful with the Sunwell, but blood is limited.

Not if you use the blood of your enemies, that is what the scarlets could be good for. Humans in Quel'thalas bah

[Koryn123]

Not if you use the blood of your enemies, that is what the scarlets could be good for. Humans in Quel'thalas bah

What enemies are the blood elves dominating so thoroughly that they're harvesting blood on the level of the conquering mogu who have no moral qualms about killing pandaren?

If the elves aren't holding it, what's to stop the crusade from taking a boat to Windrunner Village to attack the Scourge they hate so much? It's pretty weird that nobody Scarlet, Argent, or otherwise seems to care about the undead in Quel'thalas while it's the end of the world if they're in the Plaguelands.

[Combatbutler]

What enemies are the blood elves dominating so thoroughly that they're harvesting blood on the level of the conquering mogu who have no moral qualms about killing pandaren?

Any blood will do, as the mogu invasion of the vale made perfectly clear, preferring human though, that infestation needs to be driven from spotlight.

If the elves aren't holding it, what's to stop the crusade from taking a boat to Windrunner Village to attack the Scourge they hate so much? It's pretty weird that nobody Scarlet, Argent, or otherwise seems to care about the undead in Quel'thalas while it's the end of the world if they're in the Plaguelands.

A manabomb in their camp would do the trick and why would a bunch of highly racist humans try to go to elven lands, that is pretty much inhospitable, instead of trying to reclaim their own land, especially now that the forsaken are extremely weakened and have no longer any way to procreate.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

i guess you didn't like the end of the return of the king with aragon being the king of gondor

You'd be wrong in believing that.

Firstly LoTR came up with pretty much the whole basis for modern fantasy, so evidently it's not overdone to death. Secondly, pretty much every story is about execution, and Aragorn's arc was integral to the worldbuilding as a whole as per Tolkien's vision.

So a big issue with this comparison is pretending WoW -which I do love- is anywhere near the level of worldbuilding consistency LotR has. The other is not pointing out how Warcraft -and pretty much modern fantasy- is itself derivative of LotR.

That to say, not because it worked in LotR because it was well executed, will it work on WoW -regardless of personal appreciating for some tropes- WoW is a different narrative; it's not a story about a period in time, but a continually evolving narrative. So even the idea of "and then the story ended happily because the rightful king returned" doesn't even work when next expansion you need to keep the story going. This, specially in a context where this apparent King is not one of the characters we meet at the start of our journey, but a rando that would show up... 17 years later?

Point is, me not liking the tropes regarding divine right of kings on a subjective level exists in conjunction to the implausibility of actually portraying something akin in WoW, which has no end point beyond profit.

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I don’t think I will ever get tired of it. Something cool about a heroic Prince with an awesome destiny that rises to save his people eventually becoming king.

It just doesn't appeal to me as a trope -which is different than saying it can't be a good narrative, it's just personal appeal. The determinism that your birth defines your worth is just kinda depressing when you see its bare bones. I just prefer tropes where "greatness can be thrust into anyone".

They say fantasy is rife with it, but most stuff I’ve seen, the Prince either becomes evil or is a jerk or a spoilt brat loser, and the daring heroine Lolita swoops in with her clever wit, charm to save the day with her skinny arms and tiny waste able to parry blows from blokes and monster literally 5 times her size.

That sounds like you are watching anime more than anything. But for real, I'm talking more about the western medieval fantasy tropes up to the 90's I guess, where the pretension is all things can be fixed if the rightful king is at the helm, without any introspection of the flawed systems themselves. It just really turns me off.

I mean that’s what I’m use to seeing. Maybe you can recommend some of these fantasies to me, I love that theme ever since I read Narnia, but really never see much of it or enough of it around.

I thought Warcraft humans were about Princes and Kings anyway, I like that Blood elves have one or had, and would like to see that return, but they seem set on a Regent Lord, reminds me of LotR, Aragorn was far more interesting to have become a Gondor King than the idea of Denethor on the throne. In Warcraft I just struggle to like their humans, it at least in WoW. Maybe it’s the modelS or the gritty execution, I found nothing charming about Varian’s high king rise. Thought it was rubbish.

Maybe I see myself more as a charming blood elf kinda Prince than a burly grisly growly kind. I wonder.

-can't help you much with recs because I avoid those sorts of stories-

The problem for me is that, logically, monarchy is inherently flawed, because you are playing a genetic lottery, and it really just breaks my suspension of disbelief that the best person for the job just happens to be the one born into it; the biggest issue is that WoW is a sprawling and cosmopolitan and globalized world, yet there's so little introspection to systemic flaws despite Wesfall being a shithole since Vanilla, like there is anti-monarchy sentiments, but nothing has been actually done? In context, it would be far more interesting to see a secular leader rise to power and contest the power systems of the human kingdoms, actual conflict that it's not just "and then another heir to a throne rises to prominence" when pretty much every mayor alliance human character in WoW is a king or serves a monarchy.

Stormwind, Gilneas and Kul'tiras, the three playable human kingdoms, are monarchies, and that's just kinda weird to me; but I do like Jaina's arc, because she is actually the only one that "earned back" her role, not just through her BfA arc, but since the begging when she lead the humans to Kalimdor and funded Theramore. Through high and lows, Jaina has always lead.

[Koryn123]

It just doesn't appeal to me as a trope -which is different than saying it can't be a good narrative, it's just personal appeal. The determinism that your birth defines your worth is just kinda depressing when you see its bare bones. I just prefer tropes where "greatness can be thrust into anyone".

If you think about it, he's probably not really Calia's son, which would mean someone who was completely ordinary could be molded into a prince and rise to meet the challenge of leading both in reality and as a symbol of a kingdom's restoration, if that's what the people need to be inspired.

The problem for me is that, logically, monarchy is inherently flawed, because you are playing a genetic lottery, and it really just breaks my suspension of disbelief that the best person for the job just happens to be the one born into it; the biggest issue is that WoW is a sprawling and cosmopolitan and globalized world, yet there's so little introspection to systemic flaws despite Wesfall being a shithole since Vanilla, like there is anti-monarchy sentiments, but nothing has been actually done? In context, it would be far more interesting to see a secular leader rise to power and contest the power systems of the human kingdoms, actual conflict that it's not just "and then another heir to a throne rises to prominence" when pretty much every mayor alliance human character in WoW is a king or serves a monarchy.

Pretty sure Varian's never mentioned the Light as a particular motivator. There've been plenty of secular leaders among many different races. There's just something about the romanticized vision of kings, both good and bad ones, that people enjoy reading about.

I'm not personally opposed to things like Highlords ruling a country either, but Tirion is just less interesting than someone like Uther because Uther's motivator is his people. It's like he has a stake to keep him tied to a specific area and group of people. That's more and more rare these days where the motivator keeps getting shoehorned into being Azeroth or its people as a whole out of laziness so Blizzard doesn't need to develop many different world events at a time that impact individual kingdoms. It's much easier to have everyone fight Deathwing than to give everyone individual problems in their own zones they need to deal with like they did in Vanilla.

[scrappybristol]

Orcs

With the arrival of the Mag'har orcs from AU Draenor, the Horde was finally able to convince the Blackrock orcs of the Eastern Kingdoms to rejoin their kin. Thrall justifies it by telling himself that these are the children of those orcs from the Second War, and so naturally would be raised to be violent as the Horde once was. He wants to show them a better way, and does so with assistance from the Mag'har Blackrocks who've largely adjusted to the more honorable Azerothian Horde. Recognizing the strategic value of a Horde territory in the Eastern Kingdoms, and with the recent movement for neutrality of Quel'thalas, Thrall knows they have no choice. After the escape of the Mag'har from Draenor, Thrall received word from Outland that the old planet was destabilizing even further. His shaman told him Old Draenor didn't have much time left, so he made the choice to open the Dark Portal again and usher the remainder of the Mag'har, Mok'nathal, and any ogres who chose to join the Horde into Azeroth.

Fearing this influx of potential Horde combatants, the Alliance, now with Dalaran fully recommitted to their cause, consolidated their presence in the Blasted Lands, setting up a blockade at the south beach to prevent the Horde from escorting the refugees into Azeroth where they can become enemies of humanity once more. The Horde sends troops to Grom'gol in Stranglethorn Vale, from which they support the Horde's beachhead in the Blasted Lands. At the same time, Blackrock in the Swamp of Sorrows and Dragonmaw from the Twilight Highlands support this effort to rescue their Outland kin being killed by the Alliance whenever they attempt to enter Azeroth and break Stormwind's lines.

Thrall wants to help the Forsaken, but all he's able to devote is small support due to the Outland Rescue Operation, as well as the numerous conflicts in Kalimdor with the Night Elves regaining their lost ground from the Horde. For now, all are holding.

The only problem I have is that this time skip should happen while we are in the Shadowlands and Thrall is trapped there with us that AND we already have a blackrock rep ready to extend his hand to his clan and thats Eitrigg. Could impress them with his son Airok who was mutated during the WoD intro and promise similar, albiet less drastic and dangerous, powers if they lend their strength to the Horde.

With all the leaders that keep the peace between Alliance and Horde trapped in the Shadowlands, it would only be a matter of time before the drums of war sound again... preferably 4 years to mirror wc3 to vanilla

[Koryn123]

The only problem I have is that this time skip should happen while we are in the Shadowlands and Thrall is trapped there with us that AND we already have a blackrock rep ready to extend his hand to his clan and thats Eitrigg. Could impress them with his son Airok who was mutated during the WoD intro and promise similar, albiet less drastic and dangerous, powers if they lend their strength to the Horde.

With all the leaders that keep the peace between Alliance and Horde trapped in the Shadowlands, it would only be a matter of time before the drums of war sound again... preferably 4 years to mirror wc3 to vanilla

Yeah, I just remembered today that Thrall was taken too. This could be a cool time for Nazgrel to come back into the spotlight, leading as chieftain of the Frostwolves, since Drek'thar will no doubt have finally succumbed to old age and passed away. He's always been Thrall's guy and surely would have taken Thrall's WC3-WotLK ideology to heart and tried to lead in a similar fashion.

Yup, I want there to be conflict between the factions, but not just generic Alliance vs. Horde. I want there to be clear conflicts between specific members. These conflicts would be the sort that would make the others like "well...that doesn't really apply to me, and I have my own problems" so they don't get involved. No mutual defense contracts of the sort that started World War 1 and result in the lame presentation of the faction war in WoW thus far. I want vanilla style skirmishes in specific areas for specific reasons between specific individual groups within the two factions.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

If you think about it, he's probably not really Calia's son, which would mean someone who was completely ordinary could be molded into a prince and rise to meet the challenge of leading both in reality and as a symbol of a kingdom's restoration, if that's what the people need to be inspired.

But then why the conceit of making him into a pretender? Why not replace subversion of monarchy tropes -like Warcraft 3 did very well- with simply another story?

The point being, why does it have to be about monarchy tropes when Warcraft is a far more expansive universe? Why the focus on restoring a Kingdom when the kingdom failed? Hence, why not build something new -while expelling every forsaken and reclaiming that for humanity, but becoming something new, something different-?

Given how the only political system we see on WoW humans is monarchy, why not a whole different approach? Like say, a secular leader of humble origins, with goals similar to the Scarlet Crusade, without the religious zealotry. For the human peasantry both abandoned by their monarchs and the light, that could be very enticing.

Pretty sure Varian's never mentioned the Light as a particular motivator. There've been plenty of secular leaders among many different races. There's just something about the romanticized vision of kings, both good and bad ones, that people enjoy reading about.

I'm not personally opposed to things like Highlords ruling a country either, but Tirion is just less interesting than someone like Uther because Uther's motivator is his people. It's like he has a stake to keep him tied to a specific area and group of people. That's more and more rare these days where the motivator keeps getting shoehorned into being Azeroth or its people as a whole out of laziness so Blizzard doesn't need to develop many different world events at a time that impact individual kingdoms. It's much easier to have everyone fight Deathwing than to give everyone individual problems in their own zones they need to deal with like they did in Vanilla.

Secularity and Monarchy tropes do have an overlap, but I am thinking of them as different issues. The later I dislike as thematic tropes, the former I just think would serve as a better contrast to the current leaders of the Alliance (Anduin and Turalyon as commander for now) Like it's pretty evident that Anduin's rule has been informed a lot by his religiosity, and given that he is a King, a perfect foil would be a charismatic character of humble origins with little connection to the light or faith overall.

Overall point being, is that there could be a new human power rising that neither is based on monarchy tropes -a long lost heir apparent- nor on religiosity -such as the zealotry of the Scarlet Crusade. As I said, both kings and the light have failed the peasantry of human kingdoms, so it would be pretty interesting to see a character like that. Kinda like if Vaneesa VanCleef had been less concerned about revenge and more about actually improving the lives of the downtrodden.

I do feel that the EK and Kalimdor have to become evergreen and move past being stuck in Cata, so something should be done to bring those zones to a present state. Doesn't even have to be all at the same time, but if every zone ended on a new status quo rather than an unresolved plot, revisiting them for any reason in the present timeline would be far more fulfilling. So basically, that eventually every zone is reworked to be brought to a new status quo, and tbh, they don't have to be "exciting" stories by themselves, but do set up a lot of possibilities.

[Koryn123]

But then why the conceit of making him into a pretender? Why not replace subversion of monarchy tropes -like Warcraft 3 did very well- with simply another story?

The point being, why does it have to be about monarchy tropes when Warcraft is a far more expansive universe? Why the focus on restoring a Kingdom when the kingdom failed? Hence, why not build something new -while expelling every forsaken and reclaiming that for humanity, but becoming something new, something different-?

Given how the only political system we see on WoW humans is monarchy, why not a whole different approach? Like say, a secular leader of humble origins, with goals similar to the Scarlet Crusade, without the religious zealotry. For the human peasantry both abandoned by their monarchs and the light, that could be very enticing.





Secularity and Monarchy tropes do have an overlap, but I am thinking of them as different issues. The later I dislike as thematic tropes, the former I just think would serve as a better contrast to the current leaders of the Alliance (Anduin and Turalyon as commander for now) Like it's pretty evident that Anduin's rule has been informed a lot by his religiosity, and given that he is a King, a perfect foil would be a charismatic character of humble origins with little connection to the light or faith overall.

Overall point being, is that there could be a new human power rising that neither is based on monarchy tropes -a long lost heir apparent- nor on religiosity -such as the zealotry of the Scarlet Crusade. As I said, both kings and the light have failed the peasantry of human kingdoms, so it would be pretty interesting to see a character like that. Kinda like if Vaneesa VanCleef had been less concerned about revenge and more about actually improving the lives of the downtrodden.

I do feel that the EK and Kalimdor have to become evergreen and move past being stuck in Cata, so something should be done to bring those zones to a present state. Doesn't even have to be all at the same time, but if every zone ended on a new status quo rather than an unresolved plot, revisiting them for any reason in the present timeline would be far more fulfilling. So basically, that eventually every zone is reworked to be brought to a new status quo, and tbh, they don't have to be "exciting" stories by themselves, but do set up a lot of possibilities.

Hmm...I suppose the medieval setting is what makes me want it to be monarchy, but a slightly nicer military dictatorship wouldn't be out of place either. What other forms of government do you think would fit WoW?

I agree with you about how the stories need to set a new status quo, and that's the aim I had here with this new world. It's to set the board again and provide the context for the next few years of gameplay. I very much do not want the questing in Silverpine or Tirisfal to result in the complete destruction of one side, and the same goes for every other conflict. Sort of like a dream, you start right in the middle of what's going on. You, the adventurer, have been sent to this place where all this stuff is already happening. You're here to experience the zone, not to severely tip the scales in one side's favor or completely demolish one side like we do from WoD and possibly even Cata onward.

[scrappybristol]

Yeah, I just remembered today that Thrall was taken too. This could be a cool time for Nazgrel to come back into the spotlight, leading as chieftain of the Frostwolves, since Drek'thar will no doubt have finally succumbed to old age and passed away. He's always been Thrall's guy and surely would have taken Thrall's WC3-WotLK ideology to heart and tried to lead in a similar fashion.

Yup, I want there to be conflict between the factions, but not just generic Alliance vs. Horde. I want there to be clear conflicts between specific members. These conflicts would be the sort that would make the others like "well...that doesn't really apply to me, and I have my own problems" so they don't get involved. No mutual defense contracts of the sort that started World War 1 and result in the lame presentation of the faction war in WoW thus far. I want vanilla style skirmishes in specific areas for specific reasons between specific individual groups within the two factions.

Nazgrel would actually be perfect, especially since I don't think we've seen him since BC when he was running Thrallmar. He could be organizing the exodus from Outland, would be cool if he even took mercy and let the fel orcs join. He could rationalize it as if Thrall could accept the Forsaken, he could accept the abandoned fel orcs.

Of course if Outland is falling apart then not just the orcs living there but also the netherwings, the broken, citizens of shattrath, arrakoa and the remaining legion forces would also be looking to escape to Azeroth.

[Thorqin]

TLDR: Give Alliance everything they want and just screw the Horde.

Nice try, but your alliance fanboy wet dream is not gonna happen.