Are you tired of borrowed power?

[Orby]

1) I do wonder if Blizzard never got rid of talent trees how big they'd be now. Would they be akin to the trees of Path of Exile? :P

2) if Blizzard kept giving us new spells every expansion the amount of utility we'd have as well as the amount of balancing Blizzard would have had to deal with.

For these reasons I see why Blizzard gives us borrowed power, but I wouldn't mind seeing some of the batshit possibilities from over 8 expansions if they never did. :P

I think its good to find a balance, borrowed power is fine as long as we get to walk away with some of that power when we leave rather than be wiped like a clean slate by the time the expansion ends.

I mean seeing all that effort after the Legion expansion just go away before BfA was very sad, I kind of wish that tree our Artefacts had remained in some way and attached itself to our character.

[Nerovar]

I don't think the current model is sustainable because it's self-cannibalizing.

At some point they'll have to go back to polished, well-rounded classes and do away injecting borrowed power systems into the game that only serve as band-aids to help you feel better about the deliberate gaps in class design. The worst experience you can have in an MMORPG is loving your stable character for years only for him to be ripped apart after a patch because the developer thinks some (or most) abilities shouldn't belong to you anymore.

If they want to go forward and introduce meaningful character progression without ability bloat, they'll need to think of a system akin to Elder Scrolls Online. Horizontal progression that allows you to earn more permanent talent options without increasing the overall number of abilities you will have in your spell book seems like the only logical way forward.

The upsides of this are obvious. Class specific abilities are always more interesting and they'd also be permanent unlike Azerite, Artifact Weapons, Covenants etc.
The downside is that throw-away, catch-all systems are obviously much easier to make and that the added class customization could cause balancing issues further down the line.

[Swnem]

It's not a competition tho? so that's a pointless point.

and i want these things because it removes the "playing it right" aspect..

I want to do decent performance without having to stress about "Doing it right", There's just too much anxiety & stress surrounding raiding and playing in general so i just want to remove all that and be able to have fun instead of worrying.

Maybe not for you. But, it is for other players.

If the game stresses you out, i don't know why you play it though. I stopped PvP'ing in WoW cause it's so stressful (and bad). It's not healthy.
Anyways by "play right" i mean simply executing your abilities in an ideal manner to maximize performance. I find it rewarding. The proc really removed that enjoyment from the game for me.

[Thelyron]

Never want to remove abilities? So, what, button bloat just continues well past 30 buttons in the future and then 40 buttons and 50? When does it stop, never? When other abilities are better than other ones and we effectively have tons of useless ability bloat, you're advocating to keep these abilities around regardless, am I understanding this right?

Maybe once we actually have enough buttons for an interesting rotation, they could start removing the exess, but we are far from that.

[Kehego]

Maybe once we actually have enough buttons for an interesting rotation, they could start removing the exess, but we are far from that.

You press more buttons now than you did pre cata, though.

Or did we forget things like icc faceroll ret already?

[SkagenRora]

Maybe not for you. But, it is for other players.

If the game stresses you out, i don't know why you play it though. I stopped PvP'ing in WoW cause it's so stressful (and bad). It's not healthy.
Anyways by "play right" i mean simply executing your abilities in an ideal manner to maximize performance. I find it rewarding. The proc really removed that enjoyment from the game for me.

"Hey dude, parse purple or guild kick" It's not the game itself that stresses me out, it's the people and their expectations on you.

So i just want that extra "Free" damage to help boost it a bit so i won't be shunned by other people.

[BeepBoo]

wow is a gear based mmo, are you retarded? gear and crit rolls are all parses have ever been

dunno what fantasy world you live in where you think it's some sort of fighting game or something where you can finesse your way to the top. the delusion of skill is fucking real

Oh? And what happens when everyone has the same gear? Hmm. "got a string of lucky crits!" My ass. Maybe like 1-2 additional crits across a 5 minute fight, but you can easily check up on that kind of stuff. The idiots thinking there's no difference in performance between players other than luck and gear are the actual fucking truth deniers.

[Lurker1]

It seems that ever since Legion, BFA and now Shadowlands, we are getting some form of borrowed power that wont exist next xpac.
(Legendary Items/Artifact passives/actives)
(Azerite,Essences,corruption)
(Covenants, Soul Binds, Conduits)

Im honestly tired of this bullshit
Losing borrowed power is always a shitty feeling
Hopefully, they dial it back a bit next xpac

Nope and it's not my problem op.

[BeepBoo]

It's not a competition tho? so that's a pointless point.

it is innately competitive. In addition, the fact that there are 100:1 DPSther roles means you're going to have to compete for a slot. Stop trying to cater it to your scrubness. Git fucking gud or put up with what it means to be bad.

I want to do decent performance without having to stress about "Doing it right", There's just too much anxiety & stress surrounding raiding and playing in general so i just want to remove all that and be able to have fun instead of worrying.

"Waaah I have weak mental fortitude and can't be bothered to L2P so I need the game to remove all that discrepancy in performance for me so I don't get shunned!"
Jesus every fucking time I see this type of weakness it drives me insane. People like this don't deserve anything they want.

So i just want that extra "Free" damage to help boost it a bit so i won't be shunned by other people.

But why do you not DESERVE to be shunned for sucking at the game when you're talking about a TEAM of people who have to rely on you? Do you really just hate hard (lol... if you can even call wow hard...) stuff that much? Good lord.

[Kehego]

Oh? And what happens when everyone has the same gear? Hmm. "got a string of lucky crits!" My ass. Maybe like 1-2 additional crits across a 5 minute fight, but you can easily check up on that kind of stuff. The idiots thinking there's no difference in performance between players other than luck and gear are the actual fucking truth deniers.

if you been analyzing parses you'd know that individual parses count on 1) crit rolls, and 2) kill times more than anything

[crakerjack]

No, it's an easy way to keep specs/classes feeling new each expansion while also avoiding ability bloat.

[BeepBoo]

if you been analyzing parses you'd know that individual parses count on 1) crit rolls, and 2) kill times more than anything

I deeply analyze stats. I look at everything. You might have a point when talking about the top 100 parses or so, or looking at parses across a very narrow spectrum, but suffice to say the difference between blue and purple and purple and orange is definitely not just due to luck or some huge discrepancy in kill timer.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Such linear thinking, to assume the only solution is to go back to how it was before.
We can get new shit without any bar bloat at all.

They don't have to make any new baseline abilities.

They don't have to make any new talent rows.

What they can do is make more talent columns. Expand the talent trees sideways instead of down. No more buttons to press, just more options to choose from, no more losing access to shit we had for 2 years for no reason.

I've suggested this on the forum several times never got a response...

[sephrinx]

Yes. I hate it with the fury of a thousand burning suns. It's the worst thing to ever happen to video games.

[Kehego]

I deeply analyze stats. I look at everything. You might have a point when talking about the top 100 parses or so, or looking at parses across a very narrow spectrum, but suffice to say the difference between blue and purple and purple and orange is definitely not just due to luck or some huge discrepancy in kill timer.

so you shifted the goalpost. gotcha

most orange/pink parses are good luck and kill timers, if we're talking about legit non-gimmick 1/2 healer speed kills.
Once you get to purple and above, there's no real difference in player skill. Yes there are some players better than others at that bracket obv, but purple percentile and higher generally have very similar gearing ideas, cast priorities, azerite traits, etc.

[BeepBoo]

so you shifted the goalpost. gotcha

How, exactly? I don't recall ever mentioning specifics around what range of parses we were talking about. Adding more context isn't goalpost shifting.

most orange/pink parses are good luck and kill timers, if we're talking about legit non-gimmick 1/2 healer speed kills.
Once you get to purple and above, there's no real difference in player skill.

Nice anecdotal evidence. I have all of my own. Until you provide actual stats to back it up, I'm not changing my mind. I'm as much of an authority as someone who orange parsed almost every tier as anyone, being an extreme epeen stroker... as that was my entire reason for playing the game.

Yes there are some players better than others at that bracket obv, but purple percentile and higher generally have very similar gearing ideas, cast priorities, azerite traits, etc.

All of that doesn't still excuse the difference in ability to push buttons better. You're just glossing over that fact because you don't seem to want to acknowledge it. Cool, but I do, and again.... you've provided nothing to convince me otherwise. So either do that, or just drop it and stop acting like I should change my mind.

[Kehego]

How, exactly? I don't recall ever mentioning specifics around what range of parses we were talking about. Adding more context isn't goalpost shifting.


Nice anecdotal evidence. I have all of my own. Until you provide actual stats to back it up, I'm not changing my mind. I'm as much of an authority as someone who orange parsed almost every tier as anyone, being an extreme epeen stroker... as that was my entire reason for playing the game.

All of that doesn't still excuse the difference in ability to push buttons better. You're just glossing over that fact because you don't seem to want to acknowledge it. Cool, but I do, and again.... you've provided nothing to convince me otherwise. So either do that, or just drop it and stop acting like I should change my mind.

again, you're here acting like wow is a fighting game with some sort of actual ability to differentiate between A++ and S tier players.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=5
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&source=2

mage that did less damage has a higher parse.


anyway its whatever, parsing isn't about you being a l33t video game master, its about your raid's kill times.

[dcc626]

Yes. I hate it with the fury of a thousand burning suns. It's the worst thing to ever happen to video games.

its also not going anywhere, ever. /shrug

[Niwes]

where is the poll ?

i assume, at the moment, the poll would stand at 85/15 for „yes, tired of it“.

but...

where is the poll ?

[Relapses]

where is the poll ?

i assume, at the moment, the poll would stand at 85/15 for „yes, tired of it“.

but...

where is the poll ?

You can ask the community a question without it requiring a poll.

And polls on this forum are pretty fucking stupid. The anti-Blizzard sentiment and general disdain around here is so overwhelming that the results of any poll can be predicted before anybody casts a single vote. It's the equivalent of logging onto a pro-Trump forum and asking, "Hey, does anybody else think Democrats suck???" then using the obvious results of that poll to support some kind of thesis statement that Democrats do, in fact, suck.