Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Easo]

Someone shot cops part of a department with history of past and current gangs murdering black and brown people to earn ink

Why in the ever loving fuck should I give two shits? Do you care when someone from ISIS dies you know after they've been installed the police the neighbourhood to make sure everyone is following the rules? If not... well... goodbye.

You are insane, you people have fucking lost it. You just compared police to ISIS and excused shooting of those two cops about which, I assume, you don't have any kind of proof of them being guilty at something. But guilty by association, duuuhhhh.
You are insane. This goes for the other geniuses too, including the ones talking about "police starting a war". What's next, USA cops are doing genocide? Worse than Hitler?
[Infraction]

[draynay]

What's next, USA cops are doing genocide?

There are over 15,000 posts in this thread, did you just now discover the thread topic?

[Easo]

There are over 15,000 posts in this thread, did you just now discover the thread topic?

I don't remember the topic ever being genocide, especially since I made the thread.

[Shadowferal]

LA hospital treating ambushed deputies inundated by protesters: ‘We hope they die’

Anti-police protesters descended on a Los Angeles hospital where two deputies were fighting for their lives after being ambushed and shot in the head — chanting, “we hope they die,” according to officials.

The sick chants came outside as the two rookie officers — one a 31-year-old mother of a six year-old boy — were still fighting for their lives after being “critically injured” as they sat in their patrol car in the caught-on-camera ambush in Compton.

“To the protesters blocking the entrance & exit of the HOSPITAL EMERGENCY ROOM yelling ‘We hope they die’ referring to 2 LA Sheriff’s ambushed today in #Compton: DO NOT BLOCK EMERGENCY ENTRIES & EXITS TO THE HOSPITAL,” Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department tweeted early Sunday.
----

Well...at least they're honest.

[Masark]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/14/us/or...rnd/index.html

Oh hey look, vigilante's in Oregon are either refusing to evacuate their homes and placing signs up warning "looters" that they'll be shot, or are straight up illegally stopping people at gunpoint thinking they are looters.

What's spawning this insanity, that even sheriff's in Oregon are asking people not to do because it's illegal and dangerous?

Fucking unhinged nutters who believe that the fires are all the fault of "antifa" despite there being no evidence to suggest anything of the sort. Helped by a random sheriff's sergeant who reported "antifa looting" with members armed with chainsaws to cut down power lines...something which was not supported by anything beyond the sergeant hearing about that from a random person and not bothering to confirm it.

And the sheriff continues to play pat a cake with the domestic terrorists. "I'd ask them to do is please stop that,"

If it was black people doing that, they'd be demanding the air force strafe the area with A-10s.

I think we need to inspect the sheriff's closet for red shirts and white robes.

[KaPe]

Comparing the cops to isis shows a complete ignorance of the magnitude of the problem. ISIS killed thousands/tens of thousands per year. No one is accusing the cops of that.

Gets back my main problem with this. I’ll concede that some cop killings are unjustified. I’ll concede that those skew racially due to systemic bias. But this is a small problem in the grand scheme. Education, healthcare, guns, excessively punitive criminal justice system, worker conditions and wages are so so so so much bigger.

And while training is necessary and I support body cams, etc., I also recognize that cops are typically lower middle class guys who didn’t go to college, and that when you target that level of person you’re not going to get paragons of virtue all the time.

Anyone have any large scale stats that show this being a bigger problem than I think it is? Because 5 or so unfortunate shootings in a summer with millions of arrests just doesn’t do it for me.

This very thread had multiple examples of police directly lying about the events, attacking people without provocation, abusing their authority, ignoring active shooter, working together with borderline vigilantes and being far too trigger happy against POC when compared to white people. They even shoot at children when called to help calm them down. What kind of psycho does this? And let's not forget that this whole thread started because police officer choked a (black) person to death, on camera, for eight minutes, while his pals watched - all of them completely indifferent to any pleas from both the victim and other people.

On top of that, they get access to military level equipment that they have zero need for - something that would never fly in other countries. I can only imagine the amount of money being wasted on this (or, more likely, lining someone's pockets), that could have been spent on far more productive areas. Why would they bother de-escalating potential situations, if they are constantly given new toys they are just itching to use?

[Noxx79]

LA hospital treating ambushed deputies inundated by protesters: ‘We hope they die’

Anti-police protesters descended on a Los Angeles hospital where two deputies were fighting for their lives after being ambushed and shot in the head — chanting, “we hope they die,” according to officials.

The sick chants came outside as the two rookie officers — one a 31-year-old mother of a six year-old boy — were still fighting for their lives after being “critically injured” as they sat in their patrol car in the caught-on-camera ambush in Compton.

“To the protesters blocking the entrance & exit of the HOSPITAL EMERGENCY ROOM yelling ‘We hope they die’ referring to 2 LA Sheriff’s ambushed today in #Compton: DO NOT BLOCK EMERGENCY ENTRIES & EXITS TO THE HOSPITAL,” Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department tweeted early Sunday.
----

Well...at least they're honest.

Who? The cops? We’ve already proven they’re liars. The nypost? A sensationalist gossip mag? Or the video of just a few people, who again are gross.

[Edge-]

LA hospital treating ambushed deputies inundated by protesters: ‘We hope they die’

Anti-police protesters descended on a Los Angeles hospital where two deputies were fighting for their lives after being ambushed and shot in the head — chanting, “we hope they die,” according to officials.

The sick chants came outside as the two rookie officers — one a 31-year-old mother of a six year-old boy — were still fighting for their lives after being “critically injured” as they sat in their patrol car in the caught-on-camera ambush in Compton.

“To the protesters blocking the entrance & exit of the HOSPITAL EMERGENCY ROOM yelling ‘We hope they die’ referring to 2 LA Sheriff’s ambushed today in #Compton: DO NOT BLOCK EMERGENCY ENTRIES & EXITS TO THE HOSPITAL,” Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department tweeted early Sunday.
----

Well...at least they're honest.

Wasn't this like...4 people total? And then the cops went on to arrest a local journalist and lie about it afterwards?

[Noxx79]

Comparing the cops to isis shows a complete ignorance of the magnitude of the problem. ISIS killed thousands/tens of thousands per year. No one is accusing the cops of that.

Gets back my main problem with this. I’ll concede that some cop killings are unjustified. I’ll concede that those skew racially due to systemic bias. But this is a small problem in the grand scheme. Education, healthcare, guns, excessively punitive criminal justice system, worker conditions and wages are so so so so much bigger.

And while training is necessary and I support body cams, etc., I also recognize that cops are typically lower middle class guys who didn’t go to college, and that when you target that level of person you’re not going to get paragons of virtue all the time.

Anyone have any large scale stats that show this being a bigger problem than I think it is? Because 5 or so unfortunate shootings in a summer with millions of arrests just doesn’t do it for me.

Do you see the problem here?

[Noxx79]

So, no stats? Again, I will concede that you'll find plenty of examples of wrongdoing in a sample size of literally millions. But that's not enough to show a trend.

- - - Updated - - -



So you're advocating for reform of the justice system? Sentencing laws? Redefining crime?

Yes, yes, and yes.

Do you see a problem with the number of police/person interactions? Do you see a problem with recidivism? Do
You see a problem with civil forfeiture and it funding police departments? Do you see a problem with petty fines funding police departments - (https://www.cato.org/blog/petty-offe...tions-ferguson. Yes, the fucking Cato institute sees a problem here) . The last 2 being a cycle of perpetuating themselves?

At minimum in an over enforced society, the cops should at minimum stop being racist: https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justic...d-report-finds

[Edge-]

Most of the problems you mentioned there are not issues with the police themselves. The csmonitor post you linked to show that cops are racist explicitly says that "policies disproportionately impact people of color", not "cops target people of color".

“As in Ferguson, these policies disproportionately impact people of color, beginning with who gets pulled over in the first place,” the report says. “Recent San Diego and Sacramento data show that African-American people were two to four times more likely to get pulled over for a traffic stop than white people; Hispanic people were also disproportionately stopped and searched.”

Literally from the same article, fifth paragraph.

[Noxx79]

Most of the problems you mentioned there are not issues with the police themselves. The csmonitor post you linked to show that cops are racist explicitly says that "policies disproportionately impact people of color", not "cops target people of color".

cops perpetuating their own departments is indeed cops fault. When cops are over incentivized to over police, yes, it is their fault.

[postman1782]

Most of the problems you mentioned there are not issues with the police themselves. The csmonitor post you linked to show that cops are racist explicitly says that "policies disproportionately impact people of color", not "cops target people of color".

So, just going to admit, you didn't read it?

[Themius]

You are insane, you people have fucking lost it. You just compared police to ISIS and excused shooting of those two cops about which, I assume, you don't have any kind of proof of them being guilty at something. But guilty by association, duuuhhhh.
You are insane. This goes for the other geniuses too, including the ones talking about "police starting a war". What's next, USA cops are doing genocide? Worse than Hitler?

I am insane I love it?

This is the fucking state we are in there is nothing to "love" about it. We are at such a terrible state that this is literally what we have.

Just because a person is part of a terror group doesn't mean they've actually committed terrorist actions does it? Also how in the fuck did you skip over the post of me explaining why which was hours ago?

Now why do i compare cops to terrorists? Well one of the reasons they got qualified immunity TIES DIRECTLY INTO COPS BEING PART OF A TERROR GROUP. The fact that cops exert power on a particular group of people often with a motive that is against those very people and the way people feel and the way they show themselves is like a terror group.

It's interesting how black and brown people get treated the same as Roma people in Hungary by police (refugee lawyers and UN pros say) meanwhile while americans can see that overseas they simply can't see it in their own country.

The reason I compare them to terrorist is because accoridng to the FBI the greatest terror threat to america are those white hate groups and those racist white militais. The same ones cops are often chummy with, in, or sympathise with

That is why i compare them to terrorist, it isn't outlandish to compare them to terrorist.

What is outlandish is the fact that i can even compare them to terrorist and then back it up with what the FBI themselves thinks of the group they're often chummy with, and the history of police. That is what is outlandish.

Now it seems to me a lot of people do a lot of talking about oh no but authority must respect it because they're all fucking cartman and are going to kill your parents and feed them to you.

This is how we slip into fascism... quibbling about "but is that too far, they have rights too so what if they're part of terror groups theFBI thinks are a problem they have first amendment rights"

[silveth]

cops perpetuating their own departments is indeed cops fault. When cops are over incentivized to over police, yes, it is their fault.

Yet at least in NYC, the community leaders of the area want at least they same amount of policing, if not more? At least that's what they stated to the papers. These are Black community leaders calling for the police to come back.

Who am I to say they are wrong about what their community wants or needs? Who are you to say they are wrong about what their community wants or needs? Shouldn't they be the ones to make that determination?

De Blasio removed the cops whose direct job was to try to stop crime from happening and shoots sky rockets, people are dying. Now was their policing horrible over policing or were they doing the job of keeping shooting down and people alive? I don't know, but I know what the local community leaders have called for, and it wasn't defund the police, or lowering the policing in their neighborhoods.

[Themius]

Comparing the cops to isis shows a complete ignorance of the magnitude of the problem. ISIS killed thousands/tens of thousands per year. No one is accusing the cops of that.

Gets back my main problem with this. I’ll concede that some cop killings are unjustified. I’ll concede that those skew racially due to systemic bias. But this is a small problem in the grand scheme. Education, healthcare, guns, excessively punitive criminal justice system, worker conditions and wages are so so so so much bigger.

And while training is necessary and I support body cams, etc., I also recognize that cops are typically lower middle class guys who didn’t go to college, and that when you target that level of person you’re not going to get paragons of virtue all the time.

Anyone have any large scale stats that show this being a bigger problem than I think it is? Because 5 or so unfortunate shootings in a summer with millions of arrests just doesn’t do it for me.

THAT OFFICE HAS POLICE OFFICERS PART OF RACIST GANGS THAT HAVE MURDERED PEOPLE

The god damn fucking whistle blower testifies A DEPUTY SHOT AN 18 YEAR OLD ON THE GROUND FIVE TIMES IN THE BACK TO EARN HIS INK to earn his fucking EXECUTIONER TATTOO

But comparing them to isis is wrong?

Do you know shit about the history of policing in this country? Like the fact they're so well protected GOES BACK TO LITERALLY PROTECTING OFFICERS PART OF A TERROR GROUP?????]

But you're confused why I compare them to a terror group??

Like I said before:

The outlandish part isn't that I compare them to ISIS or terrorists, it is the fact that I CAN and back that up with historic examples that is outlandish.

[Noxx79]

Yet at least in NYC, the community leaders of the area want at least they same amount of policing, if not more? At least that's what they stated to the papers. These are Black community leaders calling for the police to come back.

Who am I to say they are wrong about what their community wants or needs? Who are you to say they are wrong about what their community wants or needs? Shouldn't they be the ones to make that determination?

De Blasio removed the cops whose direct job was to try to stop crime from happening and shoots sky rockets, people are dying. Now was their policing horrible over policing or were they doing the job of keeping shooting down and people alive? I don't know, but I know what the local community leaders have called for, and it wasn't defund the police, or lowering the policing in their neighborhoods.

Maybe cops should focus on crime and not giving people tickets for garbage.

Also the spike in violent crime is a myth, and at best correlation/=causation.

We in Kansas City have had no defunding of the the police, and Herr Barr has sent his goons here. We’re still in the worst epidemic of violence in kc history. Maybe more police leads to more shootings by your standard?

When people want police in their town, they don’t want cops giving people parking tickets. They want cops preventing crime, which they proved terrible at.

Let me know how a community feels when the police are there writing tickets and using the community as a source of income and job security rather than preventing crime.

Oh wait, we already know what happens: See Ferguson.

[Noxx79]

Not just trying to be difficult, but there are obviously clear reasons why that's going to happen besides racism. Police will tend to concentrate their areas in low income, high crime areas - you know where lower income people live. It's really hard to get good data here, but simply looking at proportions is not clear evidence of racism.

Not saying that police do their job well all the time and there are plenty of things to change, but I'm not convinced that racism plays nearly as large a role as I think others do.

All evidence shows otherwise. All you know is feels.

Try seeing why minority areas are suddenly more policed. Try seeing why minorities tend to group up in an area.

You’ve discovered systemic racism!

Look up the history of Troost in Kansas City and you can discover systemic racism at work.

[Elegiac]

Not just trying to be difficult, but there are obviously clear reasons why that's going to happen besides racism. Police will tend to concentrate their areas in low income, high crime areas - you know where lower income people live. It's really hard to get good data here, but simply looking at proportions is not clear evidence of racism.

Not saying that police do their job well all the time and there are plenty of things to change, but I'm not convinced that racism plays nearly as large a role as I think others do.

The racial disparity in income is itself evidence of systemic racism, lol.

Do you actually have anything supporting your argument besides you not finding the idea credible for whatever reason? Because theres a distinct absence of evidence that things are fine.

[Edge-]

Not just trying to be difficult, but there are obviously clear reasons why that's going to happen besides racism. Police will tend to concentrate their areas in low income, high crime areas - you know where lower income people live.

Which goes back to...systemic racism keeping people of color in poverty both through racist economic and housing policies on top of racist policing like in Ferguson where officers were encouraged to ticket the community of color to provide revenue for the city. Page 2 of the report backs this up - https://www.justice.gov/sites/defaul...ent_report.pdf

So it's kinda a self-fulfilling prophecy, eh? One that most folks only seem focused on the end-result of rather than focusing on the root causes of?