Blizzard listened. Kinda. New Build.

[Baconeggcheese]

And shadowbolt is a nuke, it's not functionally different to pyroblast after all.

I wouldn't exactly agree with that... but we're not talking about pyroblast or shadowbolt, we're talking about unholy's guardians.

Guardians can be nukes, or generators, or anything blizzard might want them to be... but currently they're pretty much universally dots (which is unfortunate imo).

My point still stands reductionist minutia aside, as the poster I was responding to mentioned unholy used to be about managing your diseases (mostly through snapshot manipulation), now it's about managing pets and guardians. Wounds are now what strikes were before, something to press while your diseases/pets do the heavy lifting.

And my point still stands that popping can be fun and I wouldn't mind seeing it as more of a focal point. Guardian's are not mutually exclusive from that, as they can be used in more interesting ways to be part of that focus as opposed to just being dots.

Like I said before you're entitled to an opinion

As are you.

but the reality is the spec has always been about mucking about while your passive damage does the real work, that's what it means to be a dot/summoner spec.

Coming from playing a warlock that has both a dot and a summoner (which is basically just another dot) spec I don't agree with that at all. That damage doesn't have to be passive, that's a design choice.

I think there are much more interesting ways of getting damage than say.. pressing a 3 minute CD dot.

But that's my point, yes wounds are just there, they could be more compelling but it's not a huge issue because it's not the focus of the spec.

Never said it was an issue, did say I thought it could be cool as more of a focus though.

It's like immo for destro, destro has it because locks have dots and you just put it up because it lets you press other more interesting buttons, no one is complaining destro's dot management isn't on the same level as aff's.

Immolation is really about generating shards more than anything. Its producing fuel for your big payoff moment in chaosbolt, and the more you have out the more of that moment you get. It feels good to light a bunch of things on fire with it as its visual / visceral and it feels good to get those extra resources flowing in.

Wounds don't have that strong of a visual, can't be spread and cleaved down, generate runic power which is mostly just used on death coil *twirls finger*.

Its fine, there's nothing outright wrong with it. I can just imagine ways of imo making it more fun.

[Saltysquidoon]

And my point still stands that popping can be fun and I wouldn't mind seeing it as more of a focal point. Guardian's are not mutually exclusive from that, as they can be used in more interesting ways to be part of that focus as opposed to just being dots.

What you have to understand is DK's are not one of the charmed classes like locks (I main a lock on occasion depending on the guild's off tanking needs and melee content friendliness). They don't get comprehensive iterative changes, you get (maybe) one thing every two expansions if there's an obvious problem. Such as the example I mentioned before Unholy used to be built entirely around snapshotting but when that was removed Unholy just got left exactly the same with essentially no mechanics because FS was designed exclusively to work with snapshotting, as a result for SoO and WoD unholy effectively had no mechanics and FS was essentially a rune consuming AA.

I'm not saying it's impossible to improve wounds, I'm saying if that became the focus then all of the minimum amount of dev time dk's get would go into it and everything else would be left to rot. Look at Frost, which is at this point possibly the most archaic spec in the game (as it plays essentially the same as cata) as soon as they re-implimented the DW/2h split everything has gone back into the quixotic quest to bring those things into line instead of actually improving the spec.

Immolation is really about generating shards more than anything. Its producing fuel for your big payoff moment in chaosbolt, and the more you have out the more of that moment you get. It feels good to light a bunch of things on fire with it as its visual / visceral and it feels good to get those extra resources flowing in.

Wounds don't have that strong of a visual, can't be spread and cleaved down, generate runic power which is mostly just used on death coil *twirls finger*.

Its fine, there's nothing outright wrong with it. I can just imagine ways of imo making it more fun.

That's my point though, you press immo because 1)it does free damage and 2)it's shard gen. When you're playing destro you don't want or need immo to be the focus of your gameplay because destro isn't a dot spec.

Further to that, I would like to mention in spite of everything I said in M+ being good at aoe wound stacking and cleaving with infected claws and blowing everything on epidemic is like the entire focus of the spec.

[Baconeggcheese]

What you have to understand is

This is a grass is greener kinda thing my dude. I've absolutely hated what they've done to locks since legion and BFA / SL are doing nothing to address demo / destro in any way that makes me want to play them. They've pretty much been only giving attention to aff for 3 xpacs now. Hence me looking for a new class to main.

Also we're talking design on a fan site, none of this is going to happen. Nothing you or I say is going to make a difference here, we're just talking. So this whole point about what the devs will or won't do is moot.

That's my point though, you press immo because 1)it does free damage and 2)it's shard gen. When you're playing destro you don't want or need immo to be the focus of your gameplay because destro isn't a dot spec.

I'm not sure how you took what I said and made it your point.

Immolation fits the kit appropriately and feels good, wounds feel pretty shoe horned in at the moment, barely exist visually, and don't do anything exciting. When I look at destro's kit, you're right to say that immolation isn't really in a position to become the focus of the spec (even though they've tried to put more focus on it with things like roaring blaze)... but the point was wounds are in a position to be able to have more focus and be a more central part of the kit instead of part of the multi-step filler rotation.

When I build up shards I get that payoff with chaosbolt, malefic rapture, hell even dumping out packs of imps as a summoner. When I build up wounds I get.. more resources which are then used to... cast another underwhelming spell that then... gives CDR to the unholy equivalent of hand of guldan that demo spams.

Further to that, I would like to mention in spite of everything I said in M+ being good at aoe wound stacking and cleaving with infected claws and blowing everything on epidemic is like the entire focus of the spec.

Yeah you're completely right I'm egg on face on that one. I guess that'd speak to it being such an underwhelming part of that interaction I didn't even notice though. Was looking for more of that "pop" moment you get with seeds.

I'm really not a fan of requiring talents to fill holes to give baseline functionality though. Epidemic going baseline seems huge, as when I messed with it prior to that change it felt like the spec just had a huge hole in it without it. But yeah that's more of a meta topic as opposed to one about the spec, since everyone suffers from that to varying degrees.

[tru]

Any argument you might make for the change you're asking for is automatically sabotaged by hyperbolic nonsense like this, and by the tired-ass 'blizz is lazy'.

I don't know who started the 'Blizz doesn't make the change I want so they must be lazy' train, but I hope that person suffers from a neurological disorder that causes him to randomly punch himself in the face.

Did you play bfa? Wipe off the blizz white knight polish 2.0 they've a long way to go to redeem themselves