Ion should be fired

[Beet]

Covenant doesnt work? Are bosses unkillable or what?

Rofl what a silly comment. In fact anytime someone feigns ignorance to what the person said rather than just critiquing it out right is sad.

Like for one I could just pretend to be ignorant too and say “why would raid bosses being unkillable have anything to do with covenants?” Because they’re not interlinked. Every single covenant could be fine yet raid bosses all unkillable. That would be on the bosses not covenants.

TLDR Don’t be obtuse, it makes you look silly.

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You are a major hypocrite. What happened to devs being people too?

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ve-to-hate-wow

Hahaha nice find. It’s almost like he’s not being sincere with his posts and simply wants to rile people up.

[Mirishka]

I never felt insulted in my life with that recent post he did about moving full steam ahead with their bad game design decisions. They got detailed feedback on why covenant power was not going to work but lol we are going to move forward anyway, even though we said we not move forward with covenant power if there was enough negative feedback, they lied as usual . We need a new game director fast because Ion is destroying the game with his bad decisions, look how many people left after BFA, I guess they’re going to continue this trend in Shadowlands. It has gotten so bad even their most ardent defenders are coming out against this such as Wowhead, Icy Veins, T & E, Nobbel etc. Also the endgame zone the maw not being done before it’s near release is a disgrace.

Seek professional help. I'm not trolling when I say that.

[Boo Radley]

OP is correct in his assertion that Ion is not living up to the job and there's lots of people here throwing out false equivalency arguments.

Yes, Ion is responsible for the direction of the game. "Lead designer." That means everything that gets into the game ultimately was approved by him to some degree-I dont expect him to play every quest and every easter egg, but the major systems, story, character progression, etc certainly are aspects that he should be explicitly involved in. That means everything that hasnt been fixed was not allocated the proper resources to be fixed by his leadership. All the systems that have been failures, the lack of concrete gains to our classes, the regression of gameplay, the borrowed power and RNG mechanics. All of those are things that other designers (Ghostcrawler, hallowed be his name) have put massive amounts of effort into fixing. Yes GC was the mechanics dev and Ion is a raid dev. It shows, as raids are the ONLY thing that routinely gets positive reviews in the gameplay. Art, music and such gets non-gameplay praise.

Ion should be "demoted" if you want to call it that. He should continue to be the raid dev. But someone who has a feel for the game as a whole should take over as lead. Someone who will throw themselves at fixing up classes, power, setting up a sustainable growth plan to make the game consistently interesting, etc.

Its not that he's a bad guy, its that he's not the right guy for the situation.

[khazmodan]

OP is correct in his assertion that Ion is not living up to the job and there's lots of people here throwing out false equivalency arguments.

Yes, Ion is responsible for the direction of the game. "Lead designer." That means everything that gets into the game ultimately was approved by him to some degree-I dont expect him to play every quest and every easter egg, but the major systems, story, character progression, etc certainly are aspects that he should be explicitly involved in. That means everything that hasnt been fixed was not allocated the proper resources to be fixed by his leadership. All the systems that have been failures, the lack of concrete gains to our classes, the regression of gameplay, the borrowed power and RNG mechanics. All of those are things that other designers (Ghostcrawler, hallowed be his name) have put massive amounts of effort into fixing. Yes GC was the mechanics dev and Ion is a raid dev. It shows, as raids are the ONLY thing that routinely gets positive reviews in the gameplay. Art, music and such gets non-gameplay praise.

Ion should be "demoted" if you want to call it that. He should continue to be the raid dev. But someone who has a feel for the game as a whole should take over as lead. Someone who will throw themselves at fixing up classes, power, setting up a sustainable growth plan to make the game consistently interesting, etc.

Its not that he's a bad guy, its that he's not the right guy for the situation.

Well said, Ion is a perfect example of the "Peter principle" which is; A concept in management developed by Laurence J. Peter, which observes that people in a hierarchy tend to rise to their "level of incompetence": employees are promoted based on their success in previous jobs until they reach a level at which they are no longer competent, as skills in one job do not necessarily translate to another.

"In time, every post tends to be occupied by an employee who is incompetent to carry out its duties."

[Boo Radley]

Khaz that's extremely interesting and obviously true, both as a principle and in this situation. It feels like they need to "pull the ripcord" on the Ion experiment. I definitely dont want him fired, but having a co-lead that does all the mechanical stuff while Ion does raids and story would probably see immediate improvements in the game.
I really enjoy your input on this thank you.

[globenstine]

I never felt insulted in my life with that recent post he did about moving full steam ahead with their bad game design decisions. They got detailed feedback on why covenant power was not going to work but lol we are going to move forward anyway, even though we said we not move forward with covenant power if there was enough negative feedback, they lied as usual . We need a new game director fast because Ion is destroying the game with his bad decisions, look how many people left after BFA, I guess they’re going to continue this trend in Shadowlands. It has gotten so bad even their most ardent defenders are coming out against this such as Wowhead, Icy Veins, T & E, Nobbel etc. Also the endgame zone the maw not being done before it’s near release is a disgrace.

OP's assertion that Ion lied is a falsehood. you have no way to determine if blizzard has received "enough" negative feedback on covenants to justify "pulling the ripcord", or even have a way to quantify what "enough" would constitute. quite frankly its not up to you to decide how much feedback justifies any change, especially since blizzard themselves never said one way or another to anyone how they themselves quantify these values. for them enough could be 99% of all feedback or as little as 30% for all you know. we dont need a new game director we need less angsty know it alls that think there opinion matters just because they are one of millions of people that bought a copy of the game. if you dont like it, dont play it. dont call someone a liar and call for them being fired for making a decision you dont like. ANYONE that says or even implies that there has been enough or not enough feedback on any change or lack of change is full of crap, because YOU DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THE DATA REQUIRED TO MAKE THAT ASSERTION. for all we know, all the naysayers to this system make up less than 1% of the overall player base.

[RealAwoken]

I never felt insulted in my life with that recent post he did about moving full steam ahead with their bad game design decisions. They got detailed feedback on why covenant power was not going to work but lol we are going to move forward anyway, even though we said we not move forward with covenant power if there was enough negative feedback, they lied as usual . We need a new game director fast because Ion is destroying the game with his bad decisions, look how many people left after BFA, I guess they’re going to continue this trend in Shadowlands. It has gotten so bad even their most ardent defenders are coming out against this such as Wowhead, Icy Veins, T & E, Nobbel etc. Also the endgame zone the maw not being done before it’s near release is a disgrace.

MMO'S Like WoW will never be completely balanced and perfect for all the players "Desires"of what the game should be like.It could be a lot better but it is for what it is better get used to it.
I will enjoy Shadowlands and I will most likely enjoy it a lot more then corruption patch of BFA. These days at least you got boosters, tokens, easy way of levelling another character to re-roll in case shit hits the fan and you do not enjoy your specific class anymore.

If you want a competitive balanced game, try CS.GO. It's amazing.

[Kayze]

I dunno. He became game director during Legion, and was a game designer for classes/raids since 2008. It's almost like they make some flops at times and tend to redeem themselves after. As if there's actually more than one person making the calls too! Perhaps even some group of financially invested people that Ion has to answer to!

Maybe wait to be pissy about it after release at the least. I mean, I know you will be but at least you'll actually have real examples instead of second hand experiences. But given your tone, you seem to have outgrown the genre.

[Boo Radley]

We do know they've had very consistent feedback from a wide range of players that regularly broadcast to the playerbase, especially youtubers(who have a good reason to be positive, to keep getting early access to blizzard material) of all skill levels. Taliesin is one of the worst players ive seen, and preach is one of the best. At all skill levels discontent has been displayed with the idea of the system being heavily gated and not being able to switch between the powers- narratively we're helping all 4 houses. It would make sense to be able to draw their powers, just lock the soulbinds so that to have the revandreth power, you need to have the revandreth soulbind, etc.

Basically from preach's interview it does seem fairly obvious that he made a claim that they were then not prepared to act on with the famous "ripcord" statement. In retrospect it appears to be a placating move to show confidence in their system. What you said is true. We dont have the actual statistics, no, but we do have some very prominent voices saying some very unimpressed things about the system, and expressing how the limitations are indeed too harsh. The statistics are not ours to get but the anecdotal evidence is almost 100% leaning negative(its not "entirely" negative as they like some aspects but dislike it as a whole) from playtesters. Testers who again, have a good reason to not say bad things about the systems. At the very least it does not inspire confidence.

I'll say it again- he should be the raid dev and this kind of stuff needs to be put into someone else's hands. It just seems to be one undercooked system after another.

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I dunno. He became game director during Legion, and was a game designer for classes/raids since 2008. It's almost like they make some flops at times and tend to redeem themselves after. As if there's actually more than one person making the calls too! Perhaps even some group of financially invested people that Ion has to answer to!

Maybe wait to be pissy about it after release at the least. I mean, I know you will be but at least you'll actually have real examples instead of second hand experiences. But given your tone, you seem to have outgrown the genre.

One thing is demonstrably not true- Ghostcrawler was lead class designer until he left in 2013, and I dont think Ion has ever been involved too heavily on the mechanics side of it prior to his elevation to lead designer but I cannot say that second part with absolute certainty.

[Shedaar]

Yes, please.

[munkeyinorbit]

I never did pre-order and still haven't, I will wait until 9.1 to see if they going to fix the game if not, not playing this at all.

Then why do you care if you don't even play the game? Leave wow to the people who actually play. It's time to move on.

[MrLachyG]

I never felt insulted in my life with that recent post he did about moving full steam ahead with their bad game design decisions. They got detailed feedback on why covenant power was not going to work but lol we are going to move forward anyway, even though we said we not move forward with covenant power if there was enough negative feedback, they lied as usual . We need a new game director fast because Ion is destroying the game with his bad decisions, look how many people left after BFA, I guess they’re going to continue this trend in Shadowlands. It has gotten so bad even their most ardent defenders are coming out against this such as Wowhead, Icy Veins, T & E, Nobbel etc. Also the endgame zone the maw not being done before it’s near release is a disgrace.

yeah you're the liar, they NEVER said that. as per usual here we have a thread complaining about a feature that the minority don't like, the very vocal minority, and you make up even more shit just to do what exactly? you've provided zero evidence backing up your claim, made an outlandish statement which is also BLATANTLY A LIE, and called for Ion to be fired; again, not gonna happen. methinks you need to go outside and get some perspective on things. take a break, go for a walk, and just relax dude. seriously

[Boo Radley]

Then why do you care if you don't even play the game? Leave wow to the people who actually play. It's time to move on.

Because he does care and he does play, and wants to play a good game? Being passionate about something and not being happy about it are not mutually exclusive.

They're making lots of things the exact opposite of what people want these days, and since people have been with the game for 10+ years in most cases, they're passionate about it. I feel the same way about a different issue that is likely going to see me take a break from the game as well. I dont "want" to but I dont feel that I can continue to be happy and play the game the developers want me to play- only after significant pushback and concessions will a reasonable product happen. That's becoming a growing trend in the community.

[Super Kami Dende]

Do what any non-idiot adult would do. Move on. If you hate something that much why insist that it be changed specifically for you. That's arrogant as shit.

[Tesshin83]

We do know they've had very consistent feedback from a wide range of players that regularly broadcast to the playerbase, especially youtubers(who have a good reason to be positive, to keep getting early access to blizzard material) of all skill levels. Taliesin is one of the worst players ive seen, and preach is one of the best. At all skill levels discontent has been displayed with the idea of the system being heavily gated and not being able to switch between the powers- narratively we're helping all 4 houses. It would make sense to be able to draw their powers, just lock the soulbinds so that to have the revandreth power, you need to have the revandreth soulbind, etc.

Basically from preach's interview it does seem fairly obvious that he made a claim that they were then not prepared to act on with the famous "ripcord" statement. In retrospect it appears to be a placating move to show confidence in their system. What you said is true. We dont have the actual statistics, no, but we do have some very prominent voices saying some very unimpressed things about the system, and expressing how the limitations are indeed too harsh. The statistics are not ours to get but the anecdotal evidence is almost 100% leaning negative(its not "entirely" negative as they like some aspects but dislike it as a whole) from playtesters. Testers who again, have a good reason to not say bad things about the systems. At the very least it does not inspire confidence.

I'll say it again- he should be the raid dev and this kind of stuff needs to be put into someone else's hands. It just seems to be one undercooked system after another.

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One thing is demonstrably not true- Ghostcrawler was lead class designer until he left in 2013, and I dont think Ion has ever been involved too heavily on the mechanics side of it prior to his elevation to lead designer but I cannot say that second part with absolute certainty.

Wait. Did you say Preach is one the best players? Everytime I have seen him play the actual game he is a mediocre mythic raider at best. And there is nothing wrong with that.

[Ausr]

Maybe you should back away and not play games if you feel "personally insulted" by game designs. Holy shit.

[Tesshin83]

Because he does care and he does play, and wants to play a good game? Being passionate about something and not being happy about it are not mutually exclusive.

They're making lots of things the exact opposite of what people want these days, and since people have been with the game for 10+ years in most cases, they're passionate about it. I feel the same way about a different issue that is likely going to see me take a break from the game as well. I dont "want" to but I dont feel that I can continue to be happy and play the game the developers want me to play- only after significant pushback and concessions will a reasonable product happen. That's becoming a growing trend in the community.

Correction: Dont assume that what you want is the same as the entire playerbase wants. No body really knows what everybody wants. And also people usually dont want what they actually need.

[Boo Radley]

yeah you're the liar, they NEVER said that. as per usual here we have a thread complaining about a feature that the minority don't like, the very vocal minority, and you make up even more shit just to do what exactly? you've provided zero evidence backing up your claim, made an outlandish statement which is also BLATANTLY A LIE, and called for Ion to be fired; again, not gonna happen. methinks you need to go outside and get some perspective on things. take a break, go for a walk, and just relax dude. seriously

I think you also need to calm down, and get some perspective on things because you're just as mad as OP is, just at the OP.

He's approximating the quote during Ion's interview with Preach that if the covenant system doesnt work they are prepared to remove the restrictions from it. Most of the player testers that speak publicly have given feedback that the system is heavily hampered by the choice you're forced to make, and does not benefit from it, meanwhile having it freely interchangeable would give us that "missing" talent row.
Yes OP is a bit over the top. No Ion shouldnt be fired. That doesnt mean everyone needs to resort to character assassination as for a reason they wont listen to anything OP has to say.
The point is that right now it appears that it was an assumption that wasnt actually tested, intended to be a white lie to calm people down. It instead had the opposite effect of giving them hope that they could get what they actually wanted, and started to push for. And when it came out that "no we cant actually do that" the idea that him saying "we're prepared to pull the ripcord" was seen by many as a malicious lie. Personally I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Attacking the poster as a person does not help answer any of these questions. That would wipe away about half of these replies and we could have a real discussion.

[Boo Radley]

Correction: Dont assume that what you want is the same as the entire playerbase wants. No body really knows what everybody wants. And also people usually dont want what they actually need.

No, what I want isnt what everyone else wants. Its doubtful that even a simple majority or clear plurality wants the same things in the exact same combinations. However were most people upset at some point about a lack of tier sets, new talents, class appearances, order halls not carrying forward, daily/weekly chores, essence grinds, AP grinds, corruption grinds, island grinds, lack of alt-friendliness, lack of pvp vendors, lack of justice badge like tokens, pvp stat "balancing," removal of half the pvp talent tree and many, many other things? I'm going to say that based on feedback and everyone ive ever talked to in the game, yes. At some point something in the most recent iteration of the game was made in a way people found deliberately bothersome and not fun.
So yes, my statement stands. The developers have made things recently that are the opposite of what players find fun. Not everything, or nobody would still play. But almost everyone has felt the sting of poor design lately.

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Ummmmm ... you know you can't just make shit up and wish it was true right? They never said they would not move ahead with Covenants if there was enough bad feedback.

And just because they take input from players, does not mean they have to act on it. They have made a ton of changes in some places, and not many in others. We'll see how covenants turn out. In the meanwhile, your post is just drivel.

"I feel x so the fact that you feel y is obviously made up and stupid"

You and OP would be great friends if you werent enemies. And what he is saying isnt false its just poorly worded. Its been explained many times above.

[khazmodan]

Wait. Did you say Preach is one the best players? Everytime I have seen him play the actual game he is a mediocre mythic raider at best. And there is nothing wrong with that.

Preach was in Method before the scandal ended that guild and he wasn't there just because he is a youtuber.