Shadowlands: Why won't blizzard bring back uniqueness?

[bloodmoth13]

Or some people just enjoy supporting others without playing a healer, imagine that.

With either something useless or something required.
Most of the legacy 'support' was very poorly designed and they frankly had no vision on how it should work. Id love to see dps get more utility to provide the group, but i dont want to see poorly designed crap in the name of 'uniqueness'.

Id love plate dps and pet classes to be able to assist with tanking, id love hybrid dps classes to help with healing and id like to see everyone else get utility in the form of stronger CC or strong debuffs. I have pretty big ideas on that, id love to see more non dps focused utility brought into dps classes, but throwing in a plethora of fringe abilities is a waste of time, nothing short of sub-roles would offer meaningful additions imo. If it doesnt feed into the tank/healer/dps trinity it probably shouldnt be brought in.

[Neklord]

Because competitive raiding and mythic+ exist. E-sports ruining gaming again.

[TheRevenantHero]

"I don't care about it" isn't an argument.
"I don't like it" isn't evidence of bad design.

Mages had an exceptional amount of control in classic. That was their main niche. Polymorph was one of the most powerful abilities in the game. Their ability to slow enemies was unmatched. Portals and conjuring physically changed how you interacted with the world.

By comparison, warlocks had completely different strengths. They had more survivability and they brought different utility to the group. They were also throttled to a certain extent by soulstones, which impacted how that utility functioned. Instead of control they had amazing debuffs, easily the best debuff kit in the game. Their main control ability, fear, has massive downsides in that it sends enemies running to where they could pull other enemies. They did have the ability to banish demons and elementals, which was great in some circumstances but in others was useless.

All of these differences are substantive in classic. They make a huge difference in those these classes play.

And how would you describe the differences now? Certainly not in such stark and functionality divergent terms. Instead, you'd just describe different rotations that ultimately do the same thing, or appeal to marginal differences in ramp up time or other minute output differences.

There is a reason that I am appealing to specifics and you are going "WELL I DONT LIKE IT!"

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You are factually incorrect. Every single class in classic brings unique utility to the group, without exception. Everyone has things other classes flatly DO NOT HAVE. There is no such thing in retail.

Lmfao that's not even remotely true. Shamans had bloodlust, mages had mage food, and only warriors could be tanks. All the other classes didn't bring anything unique that separated them from the rest of the classes. So the only person who is "factually incorrect" is you. Just because you don't like retail doesn't mean you should lie about classic.

[Mic_128]

They are going right back to that through removing buff scrolls

I haven't been paying attention, but are they removing Drums too?

[kronides]

I haven't been paying attention, but are they removing Drums too?

They aren't removing them, but drums are nerfed from 25% to 15%. So, half as good as shaman /mage, not almost the same like it is now.

[razorpax]

I haven't been paying attention, but are they removing Drums too?

Nerfed

Because why have drums when you can have a mediocre class

[sociald1077]

What if they test bringing back uniqueness in a future xpac by adding a system that you can choose to add a small amount of unique flavor to your class. Lets say one or two abilites, just to test the waters. I'm sure the player base would be united in accepting a little flavor into their classes that have some distinct pluses and minuses. Blizzard can use it as a way to test for de-homoginization of the classes! Since its only around for 1 xpac, and the abilities will be limited, it wont have a huge impact lasting th elife of the class. This idea is so good, no way the player base can be mad about it!

Oh...
Wait...

[Srg56]

Excuse me for typo in title: Breng = Bring obviously.

I would like to discuss the following evolution the game has been through: Classes do not have any unique flavour left in their toolkit, even items nowadays can do things that normally only some classes could. (a good example are the drums that give bloodlust, orginally only reserved for Shamans)

Wouldn't it be amazing to see some unique flavour back in the shadowlands. Why won't blizzard let one class excell in some shape or form and be less good in other aspects of the game. Is it because blizzard wants to appeal to a broader audience by homonisation of skills? Maybe.

If classes have something that distinguishes them and makes them valuable it truly feels more like an MMO to me. So Blizzard should further unprune stuff and make new unique abilities or skills for classes to make WoW feel like an true MMO again.

How cool is it that only mages could blink, you see a mage blink and it felt special and what about a priest that has one unique very powerfull prayer of healing effect but the other classes dont, these classes can have something else awesome. Why do classes need so much overlap between them nowadays.

My question for you guys: opinions on how to implement more uniqueness in Shadowlands for the classes?

The target audience changed. Morhaime once said that everyone who has heard of wow has tried it, so they hit a ceiling with the game's max possible population. But people age, get more responsibilities or they simply just get tired or bored. That means you need to reduce the amount of time they have to invest in your game in order to bring them back.

Guess what making classes completely different does? In a sandbox pvp centric game like eve online, it's a boon for the game, because anything you'd like to do in the game has it's niche. In a themepark mmo like wow, it locks certain classes out of content, because content has to be designed around a certain level of difficulty. Very few people enjoy pulling levers in casinos for years on end. That difficulty level then imposes a specific bar for performance to the players, and that in turn forces players to optimize, because that's what needs to be done in order to access the rewards.

There is a solution to your plea: classic wow.

[Tortuga234]

Because forced uniqueness = gatekeeping.
You won't feel as good about you being so unique at one thing when you are excluded from the other, because there's some one else unique at that other thing.
Less forced uniqueness means that Johny can pick whatever the hell he wants and do whatever the hell he wants with it.

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There are plenty of groups doing 24/25 keys with no rogue though, how is that possible if they are mandatory? Or are you confusing "favored by some groups" with "mandatory"?

Pillars > shroud?

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Lmfao that's not even remotely true. Shamans had bloodlust, mages had mage food, and only warriors could be tanks. All the other classes didn't bring anything unique that separated them from the rest of the classes. So the only person who is "factually incorrect" is you. Just because you don't like retail doesn't mean you should lie about classic.

Shamans didn't have blloodlust in classic. You are factually incorrect.

[TheRevenantHero]

Because forced uniqueness = gatekeeping.
You won't feel as good about you being so unique at one thing when you are excluded from the other, because there's some one else unique at that other thing.
Less forced uniqueness means that Johny can pick whatever the hell he wants and do whatever the hell he wants with it.

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Pillars > shroud?

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Shamans didn't have blloodlust in classic. You are factually incorrect.

You're right. they got Bloodlust in TBC. I forgot. Which means there are TWO classes that brought anything unique to the table, further proving my point that classes being unique simply wasn't a thing in Vanilla and therefore isn't a thing in Classic.

[Moromiro]

I agree. I want every spec to be viable, But Id love to see some more unique stuff like commanding shout, bloodlust, stampede.etc
Id love to see classes have a support spec that helped groups and raids differently like buffing people with dmg reduction/dmg increase/movespeed while doing either dmg or heal.(but not as much as a pure dmg/heal spec) id love to be a support spec, but I quess it would be too complicated for wow players

[arkanon]

Pillars > shroud?

.

As i have explained MULTIPLE TIMES, which you clearly choose to ignore because it doesnt fit the narrative you are pushing, this is similar in other seasons. And, for what i hope is the last time, this does NOT make them mandatory, just preferred or favored.

[VinceVega]

Pray tell what real uniqueness did we ever really have? Classes have never been completly different. And useless flavour abilities still exist.

BR being a druid exclusive? Great. Give it back and you are basically forced to take a druid into every dungeon.
Bloodlust? Give it to shamen. Great. Same problem.

The only way this would not fuck up the game right now is to remove Mythic+ and any 5 man content. That won't happen.

[Tortuga234]

Pray tell what real uniqueness did we ever really have? Classes have never been completly different. And useless flavour abilities still exist.

BR being a druid exclusive? Great. Give it back and you are basically forced to take a druid into every dungeon.
Bloodlust? Give it to shamen. Great. Same problem.

The only way this would not fuck up the game right now is to remove Mythic+ and any 5 man content. That won't happen.

No it's remove access to damage API or make it a bannable offense like in FFXIV, remove timers from m+, remove enrage timers from bosses. Which will never happen.

[VinceVega]

No it's remove access to damage API or make it a bannable offense like in FFXIV, remove timers from m+, remove enrage timers from bosses. Which will never happen.

Well yeah why would it? It never was like that. That would make a new game completly. I don't think you will get people back like that. Rather get rid of existing ones.

Timers is the only thing that makes Mythic+ hard.
Remove enrage timers? You also want no mana restrictions for healers? Serves the same purpose.
No one froces anyone to use the damage API. I like to know how i am performing in regards to others. Many do.
If you don't and think there are many others. Play with them. No one is forcing you to look at the damage meters

[Tortuga234]

Well yeah why would it? It never was like that. That would make a new game completly. I don't think you will get people back like that. Rather get rid of existing ones.

Timers is the only thing that makes Mythic+ hard.
Remove enrage timers? You also want no mana restrictions for healers? Serves the same purpose.
No one froces anyone to use the damage API. I like to know how i am performing in regards to others. Many do.
If you don't and think there are many others. Play with them. No one is forcing you to look at the damage meters

No one is forcing anyone to look at them. Damage meters are forcing people out of the speccs they prefer thematically or mechanically. I like survival hunter, i genuinly do. But it's goddamn pure garbage in m+. So I dont get invited. Or people leave groups i make the second they inspect me.

[VinceVega]

No one is forcing anyone to look at them. Damage meters are forcing people out of the speccs they prefer thematically or mechanically. I like survival hunter, i genuinly do. But it's goddamn pure garbage in m+. So I dont get invited. Or people leave groups i make the second they inspect me.

If you want to play offspecs. Survival is one of the few, shadow priest was another in BfA you need friends.
I have a guild and i played my shadow in mythic+ with them.

Like so many problems in wow: Look for a guild an all the problems are gone.

[Tortuga234]

If you want to play offspecs. Survival is one of the few, shadow priest was another in BfA you need friends.
I have a guild and i played my shadow in mythic+ with them.

Like so many problems in wow: Look for a guild an all the problems are gone.

Not really. I have a mythic raider history. Nothing incredible, around 150+ish world guilds. And I like doing mythic raiding, and really high keys. But I also like playing enh and survival. Those two speccs and mythic\high m+ don't go together even in a guild.

[Krothar]

I legitimately remember the complaints about only Shaman getting Bloodlust, though.

"We HAVE to bring a Shaman, its not fair. Even when they're really bad you feel like you HAVE to bring a Shaman"

So Blizzard listened, and started giving other classes versions of class specific abilities and thus killing that bit of uniqueness.

And Lo, the playerbase complained about classes becoming too similar.

[VinceVega]

Not really. I have a mythic raider history. Nothing incredible, around 150+ish world guilds. And I like doing mythic raiding, and really high keys. But I also like playing enh and survival. Those two speccs and mythic\high m+ don't go together even in a guild.

Well if you have fun with that do yu really want the dmg api etc to be removed?
Becuase a side effect will be, that the game will get quite a bit easier.

Also: Oh please. 150ish world guilds. Nothing incredible. Sure. That is literally top 1%. If you want to be there you have to make sacrifices.