Covenants system is pointless

[Sevarin]

Because the only ones who really are against it, is some few elitists circle jerks that have preordered the game anyways?

They are also the ones crying the laudest and they do it ever xpac.

Everyone else will just enjoy the covenants as some extra bonus.

some people, even non elitists, enjoy playing to the best of their ability. this includes having proper setups such as covenants. its crazy, i know, but its true. saying its only elitists is just showing your ignorance. in a case like this where it has no impact on you if you dont want to change covenants, it also makes you rather selfish.

i personally dont give a damn if you do 5 dps in a dungeon as long as im able to get what i joined the group for done, and do so to the best of my ability.

i also dont care what game it is, my first play through i like to be as optimal and thorough as possible. wow is a game where the first play through never really ends.

[VinceVega]

No, it isn't. The trolley dilemma has you choosing between two scenarios where each leaves you worse off. That's not the case with Covenants, where you chose between different sets of advantages. You're still gaining something regardless of your pick.

Your entire argument is incorrect because this isn't a no-win scenario, it's a no-lose scenario. Your decision is between what you win, but you gain something regardless.



You obviously aren't, but that doesn't make it correct. This is at its core an entitlement issue, with you assuming you are entitled to getting everything. Well, you are not, so suck it up.

You get "something" allright.

But test on the Beta show, that for some classes the something is 30% less damage than the same class/spec on another covenant.

I was allrigth with "no switching" because everyone always raved about how it is just 1 % difference...
Seems like it is more. And if you look at any of the systems of the last few addons. I don't think they will be able to change that. Sadly.

I will take the one that is best for me. Unless it is Maldraxxus.... the i quit or switch class.... But the most annoying part is going to be arguing with people who take whatever they want and are pissed, that i don't take them with me....

[Shaetha]

But this is the general misunderstanding right here... the covenants doesn't add much RPG to the game at all.

If the covenants were meaningful in terms of RPG they would have some consequences in relation to the open world. If they were meaningful in terms of RPG they would have synergy and interaction with the open world.

Meaningful in terms of an RPG means your character progresses. The covenants make you more powerful. This is progression. That is what defines RPG elements. Not consequences. Not customization. Progression.

It's okay to not like some systems, but you don't get to redefine terms to fit your argument.

[Kaver]

Meaningful in terms of an RPG means your character progresses. The covenants make you more powerful. This is progression. That is what defines RPG elements. Not consequences. Not customization. Progression.

It's okay to not like some systems, but you don't get to redefine terms to fit your argument.

Where do you have that definition of RPG from?

But anyways, the covenants still don’t correspond to what Blizzard sold them as.

[october breeze]

A rationalization for you imagining a game designer having some kind of demented epiphany while in his bathtub followed by some... ideology you believe he adhered to which uses some words that are from english and a few you've made up, with some profanity sprinkled in, to explain his line of thought in the most insulting way possible? That's beyond my level of vocabulary. Seriously. If the air is fine go out and get some, if there's fires nearby get inside.

You have taken it way too seriously I suppose. It was obviously sarcasm.

Btw, the running of bath tub naked and shouting is a reference to Archimedes story. You might wanna look it up if interested.

[Baneto]

I am skeptical, as I was with azerite gear in the beginning of BFA and we all know how poorly that was handled.

I guess if I were to completely stop raiding and never do m+ or anything competitive or remotely interesting to me in-game I would be fine with Covenants.
But thats not the way I enjoy the game, and the covenants will affect every aspect of the content I like in a bad way for me, which sucks.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

No, it isn't. The trolley dilemma has you choosing between two scenarios where each leaves you worse off. That's not the case with Covenants, where you chose between different sets of advantages. You're still gaining something regardless of your pick.

Your entire argument is incorrect because this isn't a no-win scenario, it's a no-lose scenario. Your decision is between what you win, but you gain something regardless.

It is a no-win scenario from my perspective, because what you win doesn't make up for what you lose. In this case it is player agency, you're forced to decide between player power, aesthetics, and which type of content you prefer. Unless you're very lucky and only play one type of content and one role, you're going to be feeling the negative consequences of not having the optimal Covenant or you're going to be stuck in a Covenant with an aesthetic you don't care for.

You obviously aren't, but that doesn't make it correct. This is at its core an entitlement issue, with you assuming you are entitled to getting everything. Well, you are not, so suck it up.

My subjective opinion about how I feel towards the system is entirely correct, that you would attempt to deny that is ludicrous.

I wasn't making an argument, I was providing an example of a perspective that you appeared to be ignorant of (and you're now denying that perspective). Unless you weren't ignorant of said perspective, and you were being disingenuous when you asked this question.

What's it with people and refusing to make a choice?

I answered this question, and you proceeded to attack my perspective and opinion instead of accepting it. A perspective on a subjective topic cannot be wrong by its very nature. It would make just as much sense to claim there is only one good flavor of ice cream, and anyone who doesn't like that flavor is simply incorrect.

From your perspective tying the power and cosmetics together adds an intangible value to the Covenant system, from my perspective it detracts from the Covenant system. Neither one of us is incorrect in our perspectives on the subjective value of the current iteration of the system; you decided to offer me insult rather than accepting that it boils down to a difference in perspective and subjective opinions is what drew my ire and this response.

[Inukashi]

some people, even non elitists, enjoy playing to the best of their ability. this includes having proper setups such as covenants. its crazy, i know, but its true. saying its only elitists is just showing your ignorance. in a case like this where it has no impact on you if you dont want to change covenants, it also makes you rather selfish.

i personally dont give a damn if you do 5 dps in a dungeon as long as im able to get what i joined the group for done, and do so to the best of my ability.

i also dont care what game it is, my first play through i like to be as optimal and thorough as possible. wow is a game where the first play through never really ends.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to switch covenants. I think it's good how it is right now. You can switch your covenant just by using a dialog and switching back is a bit of work, stretched over two days.
If one ability performs much better than another, switch.

But being able to just do it on the fly, for every boss would kill it for me. With the new system you still can play the best to your ability.

There's only one kind of people I really am sad for, and that's people that want to do PvE and PvP on the same character, because here it is really utility vs dps.

[Toybox]

I'm genuinely over it from a raiders POV, as the class I play (Warrior) is only going to have one choice anyway, so who cares I've had my fill of all four abilities on the beta anyway, so whatever. However, as a big RPG fan, & having played more of the beta, I really do hope people don't get their expectations up.

This isn't a choice similar to picking Horde or Alliance. This isn't picking between multiple warring factions in a CRPG like Deadfire. This is more like picking between Scryers & Aldor, Oracle & Frenzyheart. After more than 25 years of story development, having these four factions appear out of nowhere all chummy chummy offers about as much of a compelling RPG choice as Final Fantasy XIII offers deviations from its linear pathing. Another set of temporary friends I'll forget in a few years time, just like I'm no longer even sure which Sholozar Basin faction I'm currently aligned with

On a brighter note, the transmogs are cool, the idea of weapon tokens dropping so you can get covenant specific mogs is a nice touch, the mounts are alright, & some of the covenant halls are quite lovely (Night Fae & Kyrian). The minigames need a lot of work, but maybe they'll get there.

[Cosmic Janitor]

This is more like picking between Scryers & Aldor, Oracle & Frenzyheart.

The sad thing is these factions at least had legitimate conflict. Even Aldor and Scryer only worked together because A'dal forced them to. The 4 Covenants practically have resolved all their issues by the time you pick a side and then continue to support one another because all 4 of them are needed for the Shadowlands to function.

[Mafic]

Covenant system is just marketing hype. Most WoW veteran players will ignore that it exists. However when it starts to impact class design that is why then things may become choppy even for WoW veteran players.

I hope BlizZard is ready to balance all this within a shortened time frame and the holiday season soon approaching afterwards.

[A Chozo]

Why do covs even exist?

They exist because I think they are fun.

Blizzard knows that there are more people like me paying for the game than people like you, so it's more profitable to make the game for me.

[dcc626]

Because blizzard have it in their heads that they are good at designing new systems and the covenant one is just another idea in a long list of systems that no one asked for.

i mean, the stuff people do ask for are garbage, id rather they not listen to the playerbase.

[Thrillhouse918]

The Covenants SYSTEM is indeed useless. Covenants in general as a storytelling/gameplay piece are fine. By the time we hit 60 and actually choose a Covenant to ally with, we've helped save each of the Covenants in some way. We are the triumphant Maw Walker. Each of the Covenants owe us a debt of gratitude. So it makes zero sense that each of the Covenants wouldn't be fine with us joining them to help. There shouldn't be an allegiance. This issue is LITERALLY solved by making the covenant choice a talent. That's it. Let us change it based on the content we're doing. Ion et al have espoused time and time again that "gameplay trumps lore"....so explain to me again how it doesn't make good gameplay for us to be able to pick the best Covenant based on what we're doing (eg. the GAMEPLAY).... Cause there's a BiS ST covenant, BiS dungeon covenant, BiS PVP covenant, etc etc etc. Can you imagine the shit show that the world first race is going to be? Not only are comps going to be analyzed but also what Covenant(s) were used. It adds an unnecessary layer of complication for players.

[kaldari]

I don't even think it's an issue for casual. Maybe not for the open of the 1st raid but give it 6-12 months in to the xpac, with catchup gear and weekly grind being now capped, you will start seeing even the casualest of casuals running 3 separate toons of one class. And with achievements now being account wide, literally why wouldn't you do that.

[Very rare pepe]

i mean, the stuff people do ask for are garbage, id rather they not listen to the playerbase.

And the Azerite system, the removal of tier sets, Island expeditions and Warfronts wern't?

I'm not saying listen to the player base. All I am saying is, blizzard think they know what they are doing when they create new systems, but the truth is, they make said system, then spend the next 2 years trying to make that system palatable to players or come the new expansion it get's removed entirely.

[huth]

I answered this question, and you proceeded to attack my perspective and opinion instead of accepting it. A perspective on a subjective topic cannot be wrong by its very nature. It would make just as much sense to claim there is only one good flavor of ice cream, and anyone who doesn't like that flavor is simply incorrect.

Of course it can be wrong. Subjective means there isn't one single correct answer, not that there are no wrong answers.

You also didn't answer the question at all. I didn't ask why you think it is poorly designed, i asked why so many refuse to commit to things.

[ihate2beapessimist]

I'm genuinely over it from a raiders POV, as the class I play (Warrior) is only going to have one choice anyway, so who cares I've had my fill of all four abilities on the beta anyway, so whatever. However, as a big RPG fan, & having played more of the beta, I really do hope people don't get their expectations up.

This isn't a choice similar to picking Horde or Alliance. This isn't picking between multiple warring factions in a CRPG like Deadfire. This is more like picking between Scryers & Aldor, Oracle & Frenzyheart. After more than 25 years of story development, having these four factions appear out of nowhere all chummy chummy offers about as much of a compelling RPG choice as Final Fantasy XIII offers deviations from its linear pathing. Another set of temporary friends I'll forget in a few years time, just like I'm no longer even sure which Sholozar Basin faction I'm currently aligned with

On a brighter note, the transmogs are cool, the idea of weapon tokens dropping so you can get covenant specific mogs is a nice touch, the mounts are alright, & some of the covenant halls are quite lovely (Night Fae & Kyrian). The minigames need a lot of work, but maybe they'll get there.

Best review of it ive read so far, no unnecessary pessimism or whining about numbers.
At the end of the day, who even remembers who did the most dps during 25man ICC?
As long as the journey is enjoyable, and there's a decent treadmill of gear (and transmogs) ill be enjoying it.
I mean, just look at what being the very best results in...RIP Reckful. Just take it easy folks

[froschhure]

Don’t you like that true choice you have been given by blizzard? Isn’t it above nice to finally have new talent row?

[Cyanu]

After having looked more at the cov system, and seen people use it, I think the system offers zero meaningful character customization. besides the active ability, there is almost no difference between every conduit inside of the weak soulbind system. and the covs aren't even meaningful choices, they are simply "Do I gimp myself in M+ to excel in raids?". What's funny is, a system that has been so adamantly defended by casuals, actually harms casuals the most because they will be the ones with less effective characters in 2/3 game modes at any given time while top players will having 3 characters per class taking the best Cov for every game mode. The system is pointless

Why do covs even exist?

You could have said the same about literally any system In the game if you push it enough even talents...