The trend of elitism, meta and minmaxing.. I just want to have fun

[MoanaLisa]

Lenient guilds don't get the content done.

I don't know that this applies in Classic where the 'content' as far as raiding goes is relatively easy. I would submit that there are very different standards of necessary gearing and readiness between Classic and the current game.

[tehealadin]

I have to admit, and I know I will get a ton of shit for this- I have no idea what people say when they talk about "the meta" or min maxing.

[Alvito]

I don't mind other people try-harding if they are just try-harding for themselves because that's what they find fun. The problem is when it is projected on to me as well.

How exactly does taking a game less seriously make me a boomer? You must be trolling.

Look at it from other's perspective. In classic there are know and static best ways to do things. So when people don't do them it can appear like they are just fucking around and making others carry their weight. Knowing how things work and trying to do so doesn't run in conflict with having fun. Say you are in a group with a hunter that refuses to use a pet and wants to fight in melee in classic. Would you want to keep playing with them when they are clearly doing something that makes no sense to do and ignoring the things that makes their class strong?

[VinceVega]

So I am making this post because I am interested in getting into classic wow, since I started wow in wrath and I am kinda interested in experiencing the game pre-wrath. However the more I look into Classic wow the more discouraged I get.
I am one of those people who "play for fun", yeah *gasp* he said the no-no word.. I don't really care much at all about min-maxing, the "holy" meta and reducing a game that's meant to be fun to numbers. "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."
I see a lot of "extreme" (from my PoV) min-maxing and general elitism going on around like "this and that will never be taken into raids/dungeons" and "You have to be fully buffed with flasks, potions, world buffs etc etc for every single raid all the time" etc.
I mean from my understanding none of this is actually necessary unless you're raiding like super hardcore to clear bosses in 20sec and I just don't really care to play like this and with people with this attitude. It is just so incredibly tedious and tiresome to me.
So I guess what I am asking is; are there guilds and groups who play more casually and are more lenient in their approach to raids, "the meta", classes and how they do content? My impression is that everybody now plays with this mindset due to youtube content made primarily by private server elitists who gave the average player the impression that this how they have to play. I don't really care to spend a whole lot of time, money and effort on the game if it is going to be this way for the rest of classic and through TBC.

It is an MMORPG. You can play however you want. No one can force you to do anything.

But you have to look for a guild that fits you and don't get angry at a guild that expects what you don't like.

You don't have to change how you play, but you also can't expect others to do this.

[vulfrika]

I am one of those people who "play for fun", yeah *gasp* he said the no-no word.. I don't really care much at all about min-maxing, the "holy" meta and reducing a game that's meant to be fun to numbers. "

Ya'know, this "holier than thou"-attitude you display here makes you quite the obnoxious elitist.
You are flat-out stating that your way yo play the game is the superior option.

Hypocrite.

[spaace]

So I am making this post because I am interested in getting into classic wow, since I started wow in wrath and I am kinda interested in experiencing the game pre-wrath. However the more I look into Classic wow the more discouraged I get.
I am one of those people who "play for fun", yeah *gasp* he said the no-no word.. I don't really care much at all about min-maxing, the "holy" meta and reducing a game that's meant to be fun to numbers. "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."
I see a lot of "extreme" (from my PoV) min-maxing and general elitism going on around like "this and that will never be taken into raids/dungeons" and "You have to be fully buffed with flasks, potions, world buffs etc etc for every single raid all the time" etc.

So, this can be taken in a few ways.... well, not really.
You're hella lazy and you want to 'endgame' raid, and actually CLEAR content? Going in with greens, 0 idea how to push buttons.. and everyone else is elitist? Let's go into this ZG group with my ZF gear from leveling.

You need to take into some consideration that you're playing with OTHER PEOPLE, taking up THEIR TIME. Nobody is stopping you from playing casually, doing whatever you want. But once you start involving other people into your tomfoolery... suddenly it's everyone else's problem? Gamer MeToo

[Machismo]

Nobody is forcing you to play any certain way, there's no need to unnecessarily whine.

[Aggrophobic]

So I am making this post because I am interested in getting into classic wow, since I started wow in wrath and I am kinda interested in experiencing the game pre-wrath. However the more I look into Classic wow the more discouraged I get.
I am one of those people who "play for fun", yeah *gasp* he said the no-no word.. I don't really care much at all about min-maxing, the "holy" meta and reducing a game that's meant to be fun to numbers. "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."
I see a lot of "extreme" (from my PoV) min-maxing and general elitism going on around like "this and that will never be taken into raids/dungeons" and "You have to be fully buffed with flasks, potions, world buffs etc etc for every single raid all the time" etc.
I mean from my understanding none of this is actually necessary unless you're raiding like super hardcore to clear bosses in 20sec and I just don't really care to play like this and with people with this attitude. It is just so incredibly tedious and tiresome to me.
So I guess what I am asking is; are there guilds and groups who play more casually and are more lenient in their approach to raids, "the meta", classes and how they do content? My impression is that everybody now plays with this mindset due to youtube content made primarily by private server elitists who gave the average player the impression that this how they have to play. I don't really care to spend a whole lot of time, money and effort on the game if it is going to be this way for the rest of classic and through TBC.

Then find others that like the same. It sucks to have to carry someone that does not put in any effort though.

[Tiev]

There is going to be elitists everywhere and they will be the most vocal. Your goal is to find a guild that shares your outlook into playing the game. You won't find a realm where casual playing is the more "out there" style of playing from my experience. You'll have to ignore the hardcore and search for a guild that's a good fit for you. WoW is nothing without the right guild.

[vindicatorx]

I see a lot of "extreme" (from my PoV) min-maxing and general elitism going on around like "this and that will never be taken into raids/dungeons" and "You have to be fully buffed with flasks, potions, world buffs etc etc for every single raid all the time" etc.

Yeah I'm sure there are hardcorse guilds that do require all that. I know my guild doesn't but every DPS does go get all the world buffs and stuff as they want to do as much DPS as they can. The competition is what makes it fun for them. I mean it sounds to me like you want a group to accept you half assing things, which I am sure there are quite a few. But, if you are an under-performing spec IE Boomkin, ret pally, etc. You have to expect to have to put in some effort to make yourself viable. I personally don't ever flask or get world buffs as a resto druid. I do bring consumables like mana potions and food which takes zero effort. I am also optimally specced which took a whole five minutes to research and do.

[DSRilk]

"this and that will never be taken into raids/dungeons"

Your results are likely to depend on what you plan on playing. One truth about that version of WoW is the devs literally decided that certain classes should be certain specs when it came to raiding. Today people complain about a spec not being viable because it's a 5% DPS loss when played optimally versus another. Back then the percentage gaps were much higher in many cases and absolutely intentional. If you're playing a spec in its designated roll, you are going to have far more luck finding people willing to accept a "play for fun" attitude than if what you find fun happens to fall outside what the devs decided. I'm not saying it will be impossible, but it will certainly be harder.

[Hynch]

The content of vanilla isn't hard and definitely doesn't require min/maxing. We run a ret paladin and had a boomkin until recently. We do just fine. We're on Atiesh, one of the largest PVE servers. There's a few guilds with the tryhard mentality, but there's also plenty of other guilds out there that are just happy to have a fun and friendly raiding atmosphere.

[Multitorix Davlen]

The problem here is not that you just want to have fun, its the effort required to do the content and how others view your general attitude in a team based structure. The "just want to have fun" is all well and good until you have to work with others. If others sees your "just playing the game" not even close to sub optimally, you're seen as lazy (and I personally agree with that). And players don't really want to constantly carry other players. It devalues the effort put into their characters. Its not even the fact you choose to play ret paladin or boomkin. Those classes have powerful value for any groups through their group utility and I love to have a boomkin in my caster groups or paladin for their stronger melee buffs. Elitism does harm the game in its own way, but the polar opposite of slothfulness does the same kind of damage. If you "just want to play" or "just want to have fun," don't expect others to fall under that same umbrella with you. They do not find that kind of mindset fun. Its not about hardcore or casual either. I am sure there are plenty of casual players who do not push for world first or even server first that play for fun but still have the mindset of improving their own gameplay.

You can play your way if you want. Just don't expect others to play it your way. This isn't a single player game.

[Shedaar]

You're overgeneralizing. There are lots of ppl who play for fun or don't min-max 100% but like 50, like... within reason, what you'd expect i think

[Monolithi]

Sounds like how people used to play in vanilla. In Wrath we did Ulduar without looking at other strategies, we would just run in and do attempts live, those were the golden years.. You literally won't get that back.

Yes, that would be the game I would like to play. No “read it up” culture, copying someone else to eliminate learning process which is best imo.
Or overgearing content to steamroll it just to save time (we are wasting time anyway by simply playing the game).
That said, I do have respect for top guilds, but only for their dedication, not “skill” or amount of gold they are prepared to throw to overgear content.
During wotlk, there was a guild Blues only who did HC ICC only in blue gear. That was only one I respected.

[Primohastat]

Thank you for this topic OP. It helped me a lot to sort things out on my characters in my guilds (I'm playing on horde and alliance). So to summarize, so far you have been accused of:
-being demanding noob
-equipping green items for visual purposes
-stacking spirit on a mage, dpsing in deep protection, using +healing weapons on rogue, etc
-abruptly not using any consumables at all or using useless ones
-arrogantly not bringing any world buffs
-dying early on every boss fight so you can watch Netflix on second window, demanding ress only after the kill, not for another try
-expecting your guildbank to pay for your subscription
-hoping that your guild will fundraise your gaming rig
-offending players by using foul language like "games are suppose to be fun"
-and so on...

That toxicity is normal in WoW. Even classic. And it comes from this what so called elitism, spreading everywhere. Average player say that classic is piss easy and every aspect can be done with minimal effort. But right after that, the same player ignites with rage when someone wants to apply that minimal effort

So in order to release some steam from this thread, I will describe what happened to me recently

I was in a normal, casual guild. Slow farming BWL and MC for bindings was our biggest ambition. No world bosses, no speed runs, no BiS crafting. After AQ40 came, we did not one shot it despite preparations. We all agreed that in order to maintain good brand of our guild, avoid quiting drama and having recruits standing in line, we need to focus more on consumes and world buffs. We didnt consider it hardcore (which it was) approach, but something that would keep us healthy and happy. After 4 weeks, core raiders started to bench/late/not showing up, conflicts around loot distrbution fucked up the atmosphere (everyone wanted to get loot first coz all the extra effort they made). After the initial Cthun kill we could not clear AQ40 again with our really good geared team (we talk 6+ bis items on each raider). People were frustrated by spending extra time and gold to get all the world buffs. Frustrated by getting ganked or dispelled right after. Getting furstrated by creating more alts to scout/protect DMN, songflower, Zandalar Isle, BRS and Silithius summoning spots (to avoid ganks and dispels). Getting frustrated by spending 2x, 3x more time to gather consumes. Getting frustrated that they CAN'T PLAY THE GAME NORMALLY cos they need to save buffs even for 48h before the raid (which kinda narrowed the window when they could farm stuff with their mains). Getting frustrated that they lost all the buffs and consumes on some thrash pack. Getting frustrated that some ppl are not paying attention on pulls, dying early and cause ineviteble 6-8 minutes long wipe. Frustrated that Gloves of the Immortal dropped. Getting frustrated that they need to sacrifice their free time/family time on raiding like that.

But no one wanted to stop that and return to previous routine. We all thought that this is still casual

So after like 3 weeks I got benched because I did not flask on a raid. Not a big deal right? But it is if you play a mage To be honest, I was prepared, but our guild alchemist messed up in game mails and after receiving the mats, did not send me my flask back. I have this healthy rule, that if I will not find Black Lotus with one of my 3 herbalists, I'm not having a flask on a raid. So far, it was completly ok for the guild. But now my 6 months old guild mates decided to put me on a bench and take some undergeared pug to fill for me. I got frustrated, but could not even understand why.

At that moment friend of mine from my horde realm asked me to help with my under geared healer on their AQ40 raid. After initial clear and getting phatt loot, 7 core raiders from their guild left, so they desperately needed ppl. I said that I dont have the gear for AQ40 so I cant really help much, but my buddy told me that having a badly geared healer is still better that having none.

We 35manned AQ40 (skipped Ouro and Viscidus). Only 7 ppl had flasks that expired long before Cthun. No consumes other than GNPP and stamina food. MT and OT had 6.9 health. It was fun to watch most ppl die on almost each boss, but ending up in kill with 3 ppl alive. It was fun to wait 30 minutes for Twins to respawn cos they bugged out after a wipe. It was fun to see MT getting one shotted by Veknilash after that. It was hilarious to wipe on Cthun for 3 hours until all the ppl learned not to die in 1st phase. It was fun to use 4 repair bots on one raid. And it was exhilarating that after two 4,5h sessions we made it with skill, not brute force like my main alliance guild does.

After the reset I decided to bench with my alliance mage (didnt gather any Black Lotus^^). As I was listening to my guildies raid clearing AQ40, I heard silence. Silence randomly interupted by frustrated comments.

I'm no longer with them. And no angry poster here can tell me that I play the game wrong

[Algorath]

Yes, because flagrant anti-intellectualism is a noted characteristic of anybody other than people too fucking old to understand why people are the way they are. Nobody is forcing you to do anything, if anything it's you who are trying to impose your ridiculous intentions on other people.

Stop being a cunt.

[Tortuga234]

So I am making this post because I am interested in getting into classic wow, since I started wow in wrath and I am kinda interested in experiencing the game pre-wrath. However the more I look into Classic wow the more discouraged I get.
I am one of those people who "play for fun", yeah *gasp* he said the no-no word.. I don't really care much at all about min-maxing, the "holy" meta and reducing a game that's meant to be fun to numbers. "Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game."
I see a lot of "extreme" (from my PoV) min-maxing and general elitism going on around like "this and that will never be taken into raids/dungeons" and "You have to be fully buffed with flasks, potions, world buffs etc etc for every single raid all the time" etc.
I mean from my understanding none of this is actually necessary unless you're raiding like super hardcore to clear bosses in 20sec and I just don't really care to play like this and with people with this attitude. It is just so incredibly tedious and tiresome to me.
So I guess what I am asking is; are there guilds and groups who play more casually and are more lenient in their approach to raids, "the meta", classes and how they do content? My impression is that everybody now plays with this mindset due to youtube content made primarily by private server elitists who gave the average player the impression that this how they have to play. I don't really care to spend a whole lot of time, money and effort on the game if it is going to be this way for the rest of classic and through TBC.

Why everyone and their grandmother think that the only reason meta exists is because of X youtuber and Y streamer.

I couldn't care less for some random nobody with a webcam blabbering over what's good and what's bad in the game. Asmongold, preach, whoever else are just literally random nobodies with a webcam. I don't need to watch a single one of their videos to see with my own eyes how moonkin and ret suck major dick.

Meta exists because some speccs are dogshit and some are good, that's just it, blame Blizz for that.

[Cayumi]

I would advice you make a post on various recruitment forums; on here, the official forums and whatever else you may find.
Post exactly what you're looking for and what kind of mindset you have, basically what you've said in this thread.

Chances are you will be contacted by quite a few guilds and hopefully find a place where you can enjoy the game the way you want too!

[chrisnumbers]

You could play on any server and be able to find a home guild where you would belong and be welcomed. I would just suggest that you don't rush it. Play solo for a bit and let it come about organically. The worst thing is to get mixed up in a guild where you'll never click with anyone.
If it was me just starting out now, knowing what I know, I'd pick a medium to large sized server because of how hard it is to find a dungeon run where people are actually playing the game. No one wants to level their own alts, they'd rather pay a level 60 to do it. At certain times this can be convenient, but we're all over-doing it unfortunately, to the point that it's nearly impossible to find 4 other people who want to run the dungeon for real.