Are people really okay with trivial outdoors?

[crakerjack]

It's because there's a large gap in skill. I know people who play quite a bit and do nothing but pet battles, WQ's, transmog/mount farming and when it comes to raiding/m+/PvP, they are utter garbage. I like them as a person, but I wouldn't dare do raids/m+ with them as I'd get upset and have a bad time. I personally don't think any class in this game is hard to play, or atleast parse 80% on warcraftlogs. So with that mentality, I just get fed up with players when they can't perform optimally.

That being said, making the game harder for everyone might be okay for those who already play at a high level, but it would be horrible for those who don't even play their class right. People who aren't that good at the game might feel like the game isn't for them and players quitting is never a good thing for blizzard. As much as I'd like the open world to be more trivial and challenging, not every player out there shares that same view. Some people are perfectly content playing 1/2 their class and still being able to do WQ's.

In the end, it comes down to how people approach games. As a multisport athlete, my mentality was to compete and try my best. I carry that philosophy to video games and it's why I'm usually top 3 DPS in most raids and top dps in most dungeons I do. Knowing my rotation perfectly, knowing when to pop my CD's depending on the mobs, knowing when to hold off popping my CD's if I notice another DPS is going ham etc. Even when I'm top of the meters, I'm still looking for ways to improve and perform better. That's what makes the game fun for me because I look at it as a challenge to improve upon myself whenever I can. Not everyone shares that same ideology, some just want to casually push buttons and enjoy the process.

To each their own.

[blankfaced]

Wouldn't they would have to balance the outdoor world to be difficult but not punishing for 37(?) different specs, or make sure each spec is equally balanced in terms of survivability vs damage. We have classes that can completely negate taking damage from mobs, and then ones that get to face tank in cloth with no self heals. There's a pretty big disparity in spec/class survivability that would need to be addressed first.

[Biglog]

Solo wq's aren't really supposed to be progression type difficult encounters is the thing. The rewards for most wq's are already meager enough. People aren't going to do a wq that is tuned so you might die 3 times doing it. They are meant to be get out in the world and do fairly easy stuff for basic rewards. And there are the tougher rare elites with more health that really do need 2-3 people.

Also, at 410 ilvl at the end of an expansion, content and especially outdoors is meant to be on the easier side of things. Not every player reaching 120 is a 20th alt with a full set of Benthic gear waiting for them. So it has to be tuned to be doable for the players where this is their first 120 and it might take them a little longer to gear up.

[Niratias]

I kinda like outdoor stuff to be easy once you're well geared. It's like any other RPG where you get super powerful then go to places that were once difficult and destroy the crap outta them. There are other game modes if you want more difficult content.

[javierdsv]

Well I remember a lot of people complaining that leveling to 120 felt hard. That you would feel weaker the higher level you get. Bfa introduced a lot of clutter in the world and it became "hard" to traverse it.

The thing is, once you hit max level and start getting gear, it's totally fine to feel powerful against those enemies that gave you some trouble before. In fact, this is how rpgs should be, so the game is just doing fine.

What could be changed though? Some kind of ilvl scaling for max level bosses/elites, so they still feel like bosses/elites regardless of your gear.

[Mrbleedinggums]

I'm not talking about timeless isle level of mechanic for every mob (though that'd be cool). Im talking about how when i go around doing worldquests, even with catchup gear, mobs just fall over and die in seconds. Forget low risk of dying, I'm never in much risk of even loosing much hp.

It was much more nuanced around wotlk-wod. Classes were powerful, and didn't have large downtime unlike classic. You'd still win dailies without much difficulty, but mobs could still put up some fight, especially if you pulled several. You actually had to be awake and click the proper buttons.
Isn't that what gaming is about? Do people prefer it this way? Isn't combat in this game part of the fun? I'm genuinely curious, feel free to respond even if you're in favor of this godmode, blizz is seemingly on your side. just please help me understand why.

Editing cuzz a lot of people mentioning doing the zones with quest greens: i did it, qnd ye you're engaged. For a day. Then you get catchup gear and its trivial again. 8.3 zones stays somewhat bearable for longer but only if you Don't m+. If you do, its back to square one fairly early.

I know not everyone care for outdoors and that's ok, no need to force it. But i miss the Timeless Isle model where if you wanted engaging solo areas, you had them, and those that didn't want could just group or stick to the (frankly more rewarding) easy frog farming.

Another edit: I'm mostly talking solo content. Fun outdoor group content is nice but dungeons are just as good for that. What dungeons dont have are engaging (not impossibly hard, just a bit engaging) solo options, which wow used to provide loads of.

That's what areas like Torghast is for when it comes to engaging solo options. I'm fine with various levels of difficulty for solo and group content; I play Mythic raids because I want the encounters to be punishing. That doesn't mean that I feel only players who want that same level deserve to see a raid.

[Daedius]

I'm not talking about timeless isle level of mechanic for every mob (though that'd be cool). Im talking about how when i go around doing worldquests, even with catchup gear, mobs just fall over and die in seconds. Forget low risk of dying, I'm never in much risk of even loosing much hp.

It was much more nuanced around wotlk-wod. Classes were powerful, and didn't have large downtime unlike classic. You'd still win dailies without much difficulty, but mobs could still put up some fight, especially if you pulled several. You actually had to be awake and click the proper buttons.
Isn't that what gaming is about? Do people prefer it this way? Isn't combat in this game part of the fun? I'm genuinely curious, feel free to respond even if you're in favor of this godmode, blizz is seemingly on your side. just please help me understand why.

Editing cuzz a lot of people mentioning doing the zones with quest greens: i did it, qnd ye you're engaged. For a day. Then you get catchup gear and its trivial again. 8.3 zones stays somewhat bearable for longer but only if you Don't m+. If you do, its back to square one fairly early.

I know not everyone care for outdoors and that's ok, no need to force it. But i miss the Timeless Isle model where if you wanted engaging solo areas, you had them, and those that didn't want could just group or stick to the (frankly more rewarding) easy frog farming.

Another edit: I'm mostly talking solo content. Fun outdoor group content is nice but dungeons are just as good for that. What dungeons dont have are engaging (not impossibly hard, just a bit engaging) solo options, which wow used to provide loads of.

What? Every new patch mobs start hard... like Argus was a nightmare initially, so was Suramar city, and Uldum/Vale... etc. ...

[Necomis]

Is that still fun, though? If they insist on making me have to do crap out in the world to be competitive and waste my time on chores, at least make them fun, challenging, and engaging.

Yes, yes it is. Again max level and geared. I am not looking for things to be challenging out in the world. At that point its. Look a giant boss thing. Hold my beer and stand back, I got this. If I want to be really challenged while playing. I can level alts since they are not geared well or I will go solo dungeons when they are current. I find that more fun in seeing how far I can push and which bosses I have enough dps to burn down while also surviving them.

Heck I dislike PvP and will mess with that for a few hours sometimes. Even when repeatedly getting my ass handed to me over and over. I'm that crazy Alliance player looking at a Horde wpvp raid group and goes ok....jumps right in middle of them. Die...rez...die...rez, you get the idea. That can be stupid fun to me for no good reason.

[TheTaurenChieftain]

Why not simply introduce a system like warmode for players who want a challenge?

"Hard mode" which automatically scales the damage and health of mobs and people also get an 10% EXP buff for example.

People who don't want hard content can still do easy content and people who want an outdoor challenge can get one and still be rewarded(10% EXP) even if they need more time to kill the mobs.

[BeepBoo]

That can be stupid fun to me for no good reason.

You and I are very different, which is ok. However, I cannot stomach blizzard trying to mandate I "enjoy" that content with all their little carrots on a stick that appeal to people of competitive nature. I want people to make their own fun as you say you do.

I have no problem with overworld being faceroll. More power to them. I have a problem with overworld being necessary to be competitive in the non-face-roll activities, because I personally hate that type of content.

[loras]

If you want it to be less trivial you could turn on warmode and do some ganking on the side. ^^

[Rozz]

I actually disliked Nazjatar because of the mobs, their density, and their placement. The zone is very beautiful, but I despise going there even with flying. I don't enjoy every other mob having 1m+ health. They aren't more engaging, they just take longer to kill. Arcanofiend was just a bad idea altogether.

Trivial outdoors is fine in regards to gear scaling. The stronger your character is, the easier basal content should be.

[vincink]

not rly,wrath still had some difficult outdoor stuff that you couldnt solo for most people,mop also had those,but they started to add the solo ones in there also,it was in wod when they all became soloable

That was not my experience. After a couple of heroic items, I was mowing down mobs for dailies in Icecrown and Storm Peaks with little effort. And I played a Subtlety rogue.

[blankfaced]

True, but I also don't get rewards from WQs beyond ilv 440 (ok..technically some ilv 445 I think) - so...I think ppl are fine with it not posing a challenge at that point.

I know when I do assaults or rares on my alts while levelling - they are intimidating and sometimes not soloable, especially rare elites....so I am always happy for a geared lv 120 coming around and just smacking them in the face while I do whatever I can.

- - - Updated - - -



While I don't play all 37 speccs...the speccs I play (20 or so) can pretty much all solo rare elites in assauts or WQs at ilv 410...ish. So...yeah...at that point we are not talking about any need for balancing I guess.

It is usually when I hit lv 120, equip my benthic and black empire and go to Nazjatar that there is the odd boss that gives different specs different kinds of trouble. Usually it is cloth and leather suffering while plate just having an easier time. Well..unless you have a tanky pet.

The difference in survivability if it really came down to sustaining yourself against your opponent will be noticeable. The difference between what my mage has to deal with and how i can handle things easily as feral with all those instant heals every few seconds without having to ever shift is quite noticeable. And if you put them against each other taking the same damage over the same time while trying to deal damage and stay alive, the druid will win out by both staying alive and dealing more damage. And both are capable of rooting their targets as well, and technically blink with wild charge (?) in travel form lets you leap forward just like blink. The only time a mage wins out is one shot mechanics we can ice block through. Hell even a mage against a rogue, or a mage vs shadow priest. If it came down to "hey you need to keep yourself alive" there are clear winners in the game and clear losers.

[Mayia]

I'm not talking about timeless isle level of mechanic for every mob (though that'd be cool). Im talking about how when i go around doing worldquests, even with catchup gear, mobs just fall over and die in seconds. Forget low risk of dying, I'm never in much risk of even loosing much hp.

It was much more nuanced around wotlk-wod. Classes were powerful, and didn't have large downtime unlike classic. You'd still win dailies without much difficulty, but mobs could still put up some fight, especially if you pulled several. You actually had to be awake and click the proper buttons.
Isn't that what gaming is about? Do people prefer it this way? Isn't combat in this game part of the fun? I'm genuinely curious, feel free to respond even if you're in favor of this godmode, blizz is seemingly on your side. just please help me understand why.

Editing cuzz a lot of people mentioning doing the zones with quest greens: i did it, qnd ye you're engaged. For a day. Then you get catchup gear and its trivial again. 8.3 zones stays somewhat bearable for longer but only if you Don't m+. If you do, its back to square one fairly early.

I know not everyone care for outdoors and that's ok, no need to force it. But i miss the Timeless Isle model where if you wanted engaging solo areas, you had them, and those that didn't want could just group or stick to the (frankly more rewarding) easy frog farming.

Another edit: I'm mostly talking solo content. Fun outdoor group content is nice but dungeons are just as good for that. What dungeons dont have are engaging (not impossibly hard, just a bit engaging) solo options, which wow used to provide loads of.

i feel like at the start things should have teeth and feel punishing and you should outgear it somewhat.. when it becomes a TASK.. because tasks feel so bad you must change how it feels, but if you never really need to do these things.. it doesn't matter if they're hard.. its up to you if you wanna do them.

[Mirishka]

If I live to be a thousand, I will never understand people who expect WoW quests to be like, Dark Souls or something.

"When I need to gather 6 bear asses, ever bear should be a struggle! Every bear should be a lesson for the player that makes them better!" No, they really shouldn't. Just give me my bear asses and let me get on with the rest of the day, thanks.

And there are plenty of areas that can be challenging for anyone that isn't like... a tank or well-geared dps/healer. Nazjatar has areas that are full of hard-hitting elites, and so do the assaults. It isn't all Elwynn Forest.

TLDR: if you want DS gameplay, go play DS.

[Zyky]

Yeah I am. The 8.3 zones aren’t trivial. That’s how patches work

They actually are and have been since they came out.

[Eurhetemec]

If I live to be a thousand, I will never understand people who expect WoW quests to be like, Dark Souls or something.

"When I need to gather 6 bear asses, ever bear should be a struggle! Every bear should be a lesson for the player that makes them better!" No, they really shouldn't. Just give me my bear asses and let me get on with the rest of the day, thanks.

And there are plenty of areas that can be challenging for anyone that isn't like... a tank or well-geared dps/healer. Nazjatar has areas that are full of hard-hitting elites, and so do the assaults. It isn't all Elwynn Forest.

TLDR: if you want DS gameplay, go play DS.

I generally agree with this. I do think that there should be a bit more content that is a bit tougher in the open-world, because currently the jump from the difficulty of open-world stuff to even literally non-heroic dungeons (let alone M+ and so on) is clearly a very big one for an awful lot of players, but it wouldn't be an easy thing to get right, and 8.3 stuff requires being awake about as much as Vanilla farming did - the main difference is that half of what you needed to be awake for in Vanilla was trying to get the spawns before other people did - you weren't trying to avoid dying half as much as you were trying to be the first to hit stuff.

[TheTaurenChieftain]

The thing is that many WoW players who played the game back in WOTLK (where the game was at its peak) already left the game. Asking the existing WoW audience how WoW should change only leads to more systems that only fit the current playerbase. If you really want to change WoW for the better, you need to ask all the people who left WoW over the years. The current playerbase would still play WoW even if the game would become a Candy Crush simulation.

Most people on these forums, reddit or other mmo-sites are the people who didn't leave the game after all these horrible systems and implementations. They propably also don't want the game to be any other way than it is now.

I returned to the game after 1-2 years of abstinence and I often thought that the current WoW playerbase is so deep into the current systems that they don't even realize that the purpose of a game should be to be fun and enjoyable. I couldn't understand how some WoW players could advocate for a game to be this way and sometimes treat it similar to a real-life job.

If there are parts of the game which people see as "chores" or "something to get through" this is not good. And keeping the content mindless easy so that the chores don't become too annoying or time-consuming is not the right way. A game shouldn't have chores!

Why should there even be parts of the game which are "chores"? Why can't these parts also be challenging, rewarding and fun?

Also I think most casuals don't want content to be mindless easy either. You know why? Because this is propably the only content many casuals do. Casuals normally don't really raid or do M+. If you regularly raid or do M15+ you are propably not a casual and also don't speak for casuals.

Most casuals I know still want a challenging game. It is often the raiders and M+ people who want any content outside of raiding and M+ to be trivial so that they can mostly focus on M+ and raiding. But there are also people who would like to have a lot more non-trivial and engaging solo content. Torghast for example is a step in the right direction.

[VinceVega]

The thing is that many WoW players who played the game back in WOTLK (where the game was at its peak) already left the game. Asking the existing WoW audience how WoW should change only leads to more systems that only fit the current playerbase. If you really want to change WoW for the better, you need to ask all the people who left WoW over the years. The current playerbase would still play WoW even if the game would become a Candy Crush simulation.

Most people on these forums, reddit or other mmo-sites are the people who didn't leave the game after all these horrible systems and implementations. They propably also don't want the game to be any other way than it is now.

I returned to the game after 1-2 years of abstinence and I often thought that the current WoW playerbase is so deep into the current systems that they don't even realize that the purpose of a game should be to be fun and enjoyable. I couldn't understand how some WoW players could advocate for a game to be this way and sometimes treat it similar to a real-life job.

If there are parts of the game which people see as "chores" or "something to get through" this is not good. And keeping the content mindless easy so that the chores don't become too annoying or time-consuming is not the right way. A game shouldn't have chores!

Why should there even be parts of the game which are "chores"? Why can't these parts also be challenging, rewarding and fun?

Also I think most casuals don't want content to be mindless easy either. You know why? Because this is propably the only content many casuals do. Casuals normally don't really raid or do M+. If you regularly raid or do M15+ you are propably not a casual and also don't speak for casuals.

Most casuals I know still want a challenging game. It is often the raiders and M+ people who want any content outside of raiding and M+ to be trivial so that they can mostly focus on M+ and raiding. But there are also people who would like to have a lot more non-trivial and engaging solo content. Torghast for example is a step in the right direction.

I am sorry but that are just an aweful lot of words for "It is bad because i don't like it!"

What chroes exactly are you talking about? Dailys? Don't do them. You don't have to. Islands?I don't think i have touched one since the beginning of .2.
Visions? You again don't have to. You can kill Nzoth ones a week.
AP is so easy to getr you don't have to gridn anything.

The open world has players in the range of just hit 120 with heirlooms and player sfull geared in mythic. If you make it challenging for the top geared player in the open world it will be unplayable for new ones.
Open wordl always was the easiest part in wow. Yes even classic.