Is there really a Classic WoW period: Vanilla-WotLK?

[Queen of Hamsters]

No, not really.

People just proclaim feels as fact these days. Classic is Classic, TBC and WOTLK are their own. And some idiots now include Cata and MoP with the "Classic period".

[Varitok]

LFG tool was fine.

The automated dungeon finder that ports you from wherever straight into the instance was the problem.

You're sorely mistaken if you think Dungeon Finder was the soul source of WoWs Woes.

[sizzle01]

Lfg and flying didnt ruin the game. Wrath had peak subscription numbers. Some people just got tired of playing a game were you do the same thing day after day.

[Nak88]

Dungeon finder is fine, they introduced it because most people demanded it.

[Drusin]

LFG tool was fine.

The automated dungeon finder that ports you from wherever straight into the instance was the problem.

You're not going to get me to run to a dungeon ever again lol Yes, that does mean I don't do M+ or M0.

[Coffeh]

Dungeon finder is fine, they introduced it because most people demanded it.

People demand a lot of things. Doesn't mean it's good for the game in the long run dungeon finder (specifically the cross-realm component) was VERY damaging to the game. Destroyed the community.
If they took Wrath and removed the cross-realm part of dungeon finder that would be amazing. I'd also prefer no cross-realm bgs, but sadly there's almost no hope of that. The most fun pvp I ever had in WoW was original world pvp and even battlegrounds before they made them cross-realm...which was the last patch of Vanilla. Suddenly it went from forming rivalries and alliances to just farming random strangers. The entire community and social impact of pvp was flushed down the toilet. The same thing happened with dungeon finder and later the lfr.
Take all that crap out and they'd have a great mmo again.

[stevenho]

I played since retail 2004 betas through Legion, also played private vanilla, tbc and wrath.
Playing (buffed) private TBC atm in a realm 1st tryhard guild
Wotlk is where the game changed the most, by far.

[Tronski]

I think people put them in one bracket because from Vanilla to WotLK the game was still growing and the philosophy was very similar whereas everything that came after merely kept it alive and slowed its decline. There's also a lot of things that simply vanished or were altered to a large degree with Cata. Stats, talents - even the world were different.

I'd say there are roughly 3 brackets when it comes to WoW. Vanilla-WotLK which was sort of a golden age with a solid foundation of well-designed RPG mechanics and a huge emphasis on expanding the world, Cata-WoD which marked the trimming of many of the old RPG mechanics in favour of a more balanced game and Legion-Shadowlands which is when the rest of the original RPG mechanics got pruned away and the game started to lean very heavily on expansion-specific systems to make up for the resulting lack of depth.

Always seemed weird to me how they would ruin a perfectly fine RPG that was working as intended by rotting away the very core for the sake of balance only to throw that balance out of the window again and replace it with even more unbalanced systems that try to emulate the feeling of the original game but also have a timer on them.

I couldn't have said it better myself.
But there has probably been several points in time when they had to face the fact that they couldn't go back either.
When the old players were gone and the new players enjoyed the new systems, they doubled down instead of risking losing the new generation as well, under the assumption that the lost players wouldn't come back anyway.

[Exkrementor]

Wotlk feels way more like Legion than like classic. Also classic feels like a beta for BC since they refined pretty much every classic system in BC.
Therefore I would say that classic and BC is the classic period.

[Saltysquidoon]

There is no 'classic period'.

It's simply the further time moves away from wow's launch the more people's nostalgia slides to later expansions. Cata has always been a nostalgia hump because 'muh sub peak' (Thanks LoL) and 'muh auld wurld' but those things are eroding with time, hell most people (rightly) defend mop these days.

Hell 5 years ago most nostalgia posts were about how TBC was the height of the game and wrath was casual baby trash, it's just that wrath babies outnumber the vanilla/tbc grognards these days.

[Coffeh]

There is no 'classic period'.

Nah. Vanilla through Wrath is the Classic Period. The game significantly changed after that. The world literally was remade.

I'd say there are roughly 3 brackets when it comes to WoW. Vanilla-WotLK which was sort of a golden age with a solid foundation of well-designed RPG mechanics and a huge emphasis on expanding the world, Cata-WoD which marked the trimming of many of the old RPG mechanics in favour of a more balanced game and Legion-Shadowlands which is when the rest of the original RPG mechanics got pruned away and the game started to lean very heavily on expansion-specific systems to make up for the resulting lack of depth.

I agree for the most part. I would make one adjustment. WoD belongs with Legion and BfA, not with Cata and Mop. WoD was the radical change...even moreso than what happened after Wrath. I think MoP was the last time the game was even worth playing. WoD was shit and the game has been shit ever since.

[Nerovar]

I agree for the most part. I would make one adjustment. WoD belongs with Legion and BfA, not with Cata and Mop. WoD was the radical change...even moreso than what happened after Wrath. I think MoP was the last time the game was even worth playing. WoD was shit and the game has been shit ever since.

Not sure about that. I get why people dislike WoD but in terms of gameplay it felt more similar to MoP's design. I always thought WoD is to MoP what BfA is to Legion. No big changes in terms of actual gameplay and the features are largely disappointing (Garrison, Ashran = Island Expedition, Warfront) but overall there's nothing that sets them apart that much.

[arkanon]

Nah. Vanilla through Wrath is the Classic Period. The game significantly changed after that. The world literally was remade.

I agree for the most part. I would make one adjustment. WoD belongs with Legion and BfA, not with Cata and Mop. WoD was the radical change...even moreso than what happened after Wrath. I think MoP was the last time the game was even worth playing. WoD was shit and the game has been shit ever since.

If you havnt played since mop, are you just basing your opinion on others opinions?

[pinstripe]

There is no 'classic period'.

It's simply the further time moves away from wow's launch the more people's nostalgia slides to later expansions. Cata has always been a nostalgia hump because 'muh sub peak' (Thanks LoL) and 'muh auld wurld' but those things are eroding with time, hell most people (rightly) defend mop these days.

Hell 5 years ago most nostalgia posts were about how TBC was the height of the game and wrath was casual baby trash, it's just that wrath babies outnumber the vanilla/tbc grognards these days.

I'm a wrath baby, but tbh I've loved every expansion since then. I've not once thought "this is not enjoyable" when playing any of the updates since wrath. I honestly dont understand why people complain so much

[erifwodahs]

Not to mention that the introduction of multiple layers of difficulty heavily casualized raiding, alongside the heavily nerfed heroics.
It's also where the "go go go" mentality kicked off because mana started to matter less and more tanks / dps became capable of AoE'ing.
Homogenization also started to kick in with the "bring the player, not the class" mentality taking hold, no longer did a real support niche exist
.

Raids were only "not casual" because of player knowledge and it was not casual at the begining of TBC with the massive over the top entry requirements for raids which got reverted with 2.2.3 I believe.
Look at "non casual" raids now. Naked raids, no consum raids, no resistance raids, no world buff raids or full worldbuff raids. There was only one period in WoW where raiding was not casual difficulty- first half of tbc. If you look at how skilled you had to be to to kill the big bad Only KJ comes to my mind from pre-wotLK period. Ofc WotLK Naxx was as hard as MC in classic I guess, but HM Yog was the start for the "non casual" raiding in WoW and the easier modes were just accommodating the crowds which would have been slaughtered by any wotLK raiding guild

[Laqweeta]

Classic WoW is vanilla+tbc.
After that big things like threat management or group comp stopped being an issue, achievements and gearscore emerged, and the dev team gave birth to the jokefest named LFG.

WOTLK is a start of modern wow.

lol.

1-80 still took a good 7 to 8 days without a main/heirlooms
Game still had talent trees
If you took on more than 3 mobs before TBC content you likely died
weapon skills
enchants on nearly everything
gold meant something

CATA is a start of modern wow.

[Dhrizzle]

WotLK was the beginning of the decline of the game.

It introduced the vast majority of "amenity"-mechanics we have today - like the dreadful achievement system, group finder, mass loot for everyone etc.

Player base wise, WotLK was the height of the game, but because they made it so much more convenient and casuall/mass gamer friendly. WotLK is where the decline started.

OG WoW was Classic to TBC.

TBC was the beginning of the decline. It introduced "welfare epics" through arenas and badge grinds as well as daily quests to keep people chasing carrots. Also towards the end it made AoE-grinding heroic dungeons the norm which Blizz really leaned into with WotLK. Not that I personally mind most of those systems but if you want to blame them for the decline you should at least point at the correct expansion.

- - - Updated - - -

No, not really.

People just proclaim feels as fact these days. Classic is Classic, TBC and WOTLK are their own. And some idiots now include Cata and MoP with the "Classic period".

"Classic" is an arbitrary phrase though. You're saying that only Vanilla WoW can be considered "Classic" for whatever reason, whereas I look at the fact that Cata did away with the "classic" talent trees and "classic" old world and consider the "classic" era of WoW to run until the end of WotLK, which is also where the wrapped up the "classic" story from WC3 with Cata feeling very much like a sequel to to Vanilla.

- - - Updated - - -

People demand a lot of things. Doesn't mean it's good for the game in the long run dungeon finder (specifically the cross-realm component) was VERY damaging to the game. Destroyed the community.

By the time the dungeon finder came about there wasn't any community building going on in 5-man content unless you count people spamming "LFM tank daily heroic" in trade chat. The dungeons were so piss-easy from the start that no-one was spending any time chatting or networking to get a decent team together, it was just get to the dungeon, spam AoE for 20 minutes, loot and go home.

[xenogear3]

Yes, lots of people, including me, agree that WotLK is the true ending for Warcraft 3 and WoW.

Blizzard is still trying at Cataclysm and Mist of Pandaria.
After that, it is just milking mode.

[kranur]

Wrath is actually more similar to current game than it is to TBC.

[Gimlix]

Yes, lots of people, including me, agree that WotLK is the true ending for Warcraft 3 and WoW.

Blizzard is still trying at Cataclysm and Mist of Pandaria.
After that, it is just milking mode.

Cataclysm is considered one of the worst expansions though.
I don't think they are milking the game, they are just expending it, thats how MMORPG works. Unless u want it to just end at WOTLK and never any new patches. That would just be horrible company decision. Especially back then when WoW was still at 12,000,000 monthly paying subscribers.

Game is in a good state though. But Vanilla is vanilla, tbc is tbc, wotlk is wotlk, cata is cata etc.
But yeah, The game took a different approach when WoD started.

(FYI WoD was the worst thing they created, except the new char models, love em!)