This is the hole they dug with all these stupid systems
Systems of Systemcraft: Systemlands
This is the hole they dug with all these stupid systems
Systems of Systemcraft: Systemlands
I mean, those bugs are still a problem.
In my opinion, they were already cutting it really close in the BfA beta, i remember that Warmode kept breaking countless quests that involved phasing and those weren't fixed weeks before release.
Especially those quests that need to be completed to progress within the zone (which is the majority nowadays) need to function without flaw on launch, same goes for Covenant campaigns.
In particular because those affect virtually everybody, even those that don't care about balance.
Beta testers can deal with bugged quests, they're used to it, your average players most certainly won't google a workaround or read on forums, they'll be just pissed.
But the point stands: First, those systems are a complete nightmare to balance & Blizzard seemingly had serious problems getting development going in SL.
Remember them saying "we left us enough time to focus on balance?"
Yeah, seems like they didn't, all that Soulbind, Legendary & Conduit stuff should have been implemented months ago, so that they could iterate over it.
They didn't want to start with balance until all systems are in place, turns out those systems weren't "in place" (if you want to call the current state "in place") until weeks before launch.
The person you were responding to made the assertion that BfA was a perfectly functional expansion when compared to the current state of Shadowlands, and was saying that Shadowlands has significantly more issues than BfA. When you then go on to point out problems with BfA, as though they are at all comparable, and explicitly make a point about how BfA was also unfinished, it seems as though you are woefully ignorant of the multitude of problems plaguing Shadowlands. It was essentially whataboutism.
Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief
Systems in place of real content and having these systems to be balanced through all avenues of the game doesn't work.
Let gear be gear. Have real content cover content droughts instead of busy work. Let their be PVE and PVP set bonuses again.
Covenants right now are trying to cover everything from "content', constant progression, player power and story. Doesn't work!
Oh yes, the execs have great bonuses and all that. It's all cool and dandy for them and the shareholders as they fire the workforce and deliver mediocre products like BfA, Diablo infinite and Warcraft 3 reforged alongside a drop of HotS esports and decline of the overwatch league.
Yes, yes... i am sure it's them at their best. I don't know how anyone could argue otherwise.
I am gonna assume you are american, cause only americans keep talking of all these fabled economical crisis that seems to happen every 2 years, one loses count. Though i confess this crisis is most original.
Last edited by Swnem; 2020-10-11 at 04:24 AM.
I still fail to understand how pointing out that SL is in a somehow comparatively worse state than BfA launch really adds anything to the discussion. In fact, the entire basis of my observation is that the developers being distracted by having to balance multiple systems-on-systems is precisely why the delay was necessary.
What part is difficult for you to understand?
Blizz has released buggy unfinished products for over 5 years now, its to be expected.
If they now do a 180 and decide they need more time to polish the game and give us a better experience and they fail to do that.
If the product is not gonna improve, there would be no inherent reason to even delay it. Dont you see the flaws in your own logic?
Shadowlands delay means: They've pretty much totally revamped the game (like with Cataclysm), plus COVID. People thinking this is anything more, is just the typical dipshit gamer mentality.
Well, the company has grown in value over the last few years, so they're doing something right. You calling a few of their products mediocre doesn't change that.
I don't have to be American to understand how businesses work. And, I'm not American, so great job trying to throw a nationality insult.
Hi
Just so we're both on the same page, this is essentially how we've gotten to this point:
Your assertion is, essentially, that the number of contrived systems are causing development issues.
The person you initially responded to, deenman, makes a counter-claim stating that the issues plaguing Shadowlands are more diverse in nature (i.e.: fundamental aspects of the expansion, like levelling from 50-60, are still not complete).
You respond with specific issues related to BfA, which seemed to be a whataboutism for BfA (i.e.: Shadowlands may have these problems, but what about these problems with BfA).
I respond with a slightly more comprehensive list of problems specific to Shadowlands for why it needed delayed, some of which were related to new systems and others were not.
The relevance is that Shadowlands is very obviously not being delayed solely due to the extra systems. Fundamental parts of the expansion are not complete, this includes levelling, class spells not working, specialization rotations being incomplete and still up for major changes, some talents still don't work, many encounters in raid testing are incomplete, etc. Blizzard's problem seems to be a more fundamental scoping issue, or possibly even a resource issue, rather than being due to contrived/complex systems or layering systems on top of each other, as most of the major issues plaguing Shadowlands aren't actually related to covenants. The development team isn't a singular pool which can have all its resources allocated to a specific system, they're broken down into teams which deal with specific aspects of the game, and each of these smaller teams seem to be having issues delivering.
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I think it needs pointed out, the idea that it's 1% min/max that are having issues is untrue. Covenants testing throughout beta, even in most recent raid/mythic+ testing has some classes being up to 100% more powerful than others, some covenant abilities have been doing upwards of 40% of some spec's damage, etc. At the moment, Blizzard is starting to nerf many of these abilities to the ground in order to force them to be relatively balance, so it'll likely be OK balance wise, but it's essentially turning interesting choices that cannot be balanced in time into uninteresting but balanced choices.
Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief
Then you have to ask which section of the player base are you talking about. Yes some are going to support others are going to rebel. Just like with everything else. The only way this will stop is one of two ways. Everyone quits (AKA no more wow) or Ion comes up and goes "This is how the game is going to be from now on, like it and stay, hate it well there's other games for you."
Them taking more time to put in actaul RPG elements and choice is absolutely the best way forward and they should do it even expan.
You're still comparing a hypothetical we'll never know (how SL would have released without a delay) with known information (how BfA did release). Moreover, while Covenants may not be the biggest issue with SL I think that the fundamental issues that come with them, forcing teams to have to focus on balancing certain parts of the game they normally may not have had to, is part of the reason this approach is fundamentally flawed (imo, of course). That is to say that in a world where Blizzard was focusing less on a systems-on-systems approach and more on simply delivering a product players will be satisfied with, maybe we wouldn't have needed a delay. This is of course complete conjecture and you're free to disagree with me if you want; I still think coloring my response as "whataboutism" when it's only tertiary to the overlaying point I'm trying to illustrate fails to further the discussion in a meaningful way.
Wasn't there a virus or something that made many people need to work from home now which caused shit all over the world to be delayed and/or cancelled?
The most difficult thing to do is accept that there is nothing wrong with things you don't like and accept that people can like things you don't.