The horde council is pathetic.

[Grazrug]

Our current cast of leading characters is truly pathetic. They are underdeveloped, underused, underpowered and lack any sorts of investment that could draw a horde player emotionally to them. To fix these issues it is needed that the horde council gets replaced with characters that could actually stand off against the big alliance super heroes.

Orcs - kill Thrall. Bring back AU Grommash
Trolls - Rastakhan and Jindo the Breaker
Tauren - Sark Ragetotem
Blood elves - kael’thas Sunstrider
Nightborne - Grand magistrix Elisande
Undead - sylvanas can come back.

Then the horde would be fixed.

[Phaelia]

Our current cast of leading characters is truly pathetic. They are underdeveloped, underused, underpowered and lack any sorts of investment that could draw a horde player emotionally to them. To fix these issues it is needed that the horde council gets replaced with characters that could actually stand off against the big alliance super heroes.

Orcs - kill Thrall. Bring back AU Grommash
Trolls - Rastakhan and Jindo the Breaker
Tauren - Sark Ragetotem
Blood elves - kael’thas Sunstrider
Nightborne - Grand magistrix Elisande
Undead - sylvanas can come back.

Then the horde would be fixed.

Ignoring the fact that a few of these are actually dead, this is a horrible idea. These are truly evil characters, and it’d just make the Horde the bad guys. Again.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Jin'do? The random Troll in ZG? Why? And Sark just has no lore at all.

[Grazrug]

Ignoring the fact that a few of these are actually dead, this is a horrible idea. These are truly evil characters, and it’d just make the Horde the bad guys. Again.

I rather be the bad guy then a pathetic alliance boot licker Iike Thrall and Baine are.

[Thage]

We've had the Horde be run by incompetent edgelords and nihilistic psychopaths for the better part of a decade now, with a brief respite where Vol'jin didn't do anything because the developers wanted to do more orc stuff instead. Can we give the unrelenting edge a break for an expansion or two? This shit is starting to come off like Game of Thrones fanfiction at this point.

[Soon-TM]

Ignoring the fact that a few of these are actually dead, this is a horrible idea. These are truly evil characters, and it’d just make the Horde the bad guys. Again.

I mean, we ARE the bad guys already, and no amount of pathetic backtracking from Danuser & co. is going to change that. There is no salvation for a nation (or group of nations) who willingly commit mass murders in the scale of Garrosh first, and then with Sylvanas. We could become a proper evil faction while we are at it, instead of this idiotic, cringeworthy flipflopping between "cowardly bloodthirsty morons" and "wise noble savages". But evidently Danuser cannot make up his Disney-addled mind, so we have a weird hybrid of both categories - a veritable narrative abomination.

[MikeBogina]

Our current cast of leading characters is truly pathetic. They are underdeveloped, underused, underpowered and lack any sorts of investment that could draw a horde player emotionally to them. To fix these issues it is needed that the horde council gets replaced with characters that could actually stand off against the big alliance super heroes.

Orcs - kill Thrall. Bring back AU Grommash
Trolls - Rastakhan and Jindo the Breaker
Tauren - Sark Ragetotem
Blood elves - kael’thas Sunstrider
Nightborne - Grand magistrix Elisande
Undead - sylvanas can come back.

Then the horde would be fixed.

Blizzard thought they would be better suited as raid bosses, while the amount of powerful Alliance characters continue to pile up :/

[Grazrug]

Blizzard thought they would be better suited as raid bosses, while the amount of powerful Alliance characters continue to pile up :/

They are alliance biased. Just like the Admins of this forum.

[Aucald]

While I don't have an issue with the Horde Council as it currently is, I *would* like to see the developers make up their minds on what they actually want the Horde to be. They can be the Chaotic to the Alliance's Lawful, or the Evil to their Good, but they need to pick a path and stick with it for the long haul. They keep seeming to want to have it both ways - making the Horde honorable and good but less hierarchical and more prone to chaos when it comes to world events but then also have the Horde do patently evil things (e.g. Teldrassil) in the name of fomenting drama in the game's story. This manner of use would be fine if the Horde kept to its evil roots but trying to have their cake, eat their cake, and then trying to sell the playerbase both cakes is unseemly (and impossible).

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

They are alliance biased. Just like the Admins of this forum.

This could have been an interesting discussion but you just had to ruin it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

While I don't have an issue with the Horde Council as it currently is, I *would* like to see the developers make up their minds on what they actually want the Horde to be. They can be the Chaotic to the Alliance's Lawful, or the Evil to their Good, but they need to pick a path and stick with it for the long haul. They keep seeming to want to have it both ways - making the Horde honorable and good but less hierarchical and more prone to chaos when it comes to world events but then also have the Horde do patently evil things (e.g. Teldrassil) in the name of fomenting drama in the game's story. This manner of use would be fine if the Horde kept to its evil roots but trying to have their cake, eat their cake, and then trying to sell the playerbase both cakes is unseemly (and impossible).

neutral chaotic. Alliance should always be lawful good(As in we're never going to be bros nationwide but we "tolerate" each other.

[jellmoo]

Our current cast of leading characters is truly pathetic. They are underdeveloped, underused, underpowered and lack any sorts of investment that could draw a horde player emotionally to them. To fix these issues it is needed that the horde council gets replaced with characters that could actually stand off against the big alliance super heroes.

Orcs - kill Thrall. Bring back AU Grommash
Trolls - Rastakhan and Jindo the Breaker
Tauren - Sark Ragetotem
Blood elves - kael’thas Sunstrider
Nightborne - Grand magistrix Elisande
Undead - sylvanas can come back.

Then the horde would be fixed.

Jesus Christ, why not just bring back Garrosh and Sylvanas and have them merge into Garvanas, the super brute who is so dark, edgy and irrationally angry that all Horde players get a +5 to Crit because the edge is so sharp.

[Grazrug]

While I don't have an issue with the Horde Council as it currently is, I *would* like to see the developers make up their minds on what they actually want the Horde to be. They can be the Chaotic to the Alliance's Lawful, or the Evil to their Good, but they need to pick a path and stick with it for the long haul. They keep seeming to want to have it both ways - making the Horde honorable and good but less hierarchical and more prone to chaos when it comes to world events but then also have the Horde do patently evil things (e.g. Teldrassil) in the name of fomenting drama in the game's story. This manner of use would be fine if the Horde kept to its evil roots but trying to have their cake, eat their cake, and then trying to sell the playerbase both cakes is unseemly (and impossible).

Well I'm just sick of losing our leaders all the time. Our current cast is full of c-listers. Mop and bfa took a heavy toll on the horde. They are most literally on their last leg.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Bring back Rastakhan as a zombie, and Vol'jin, and you got a deal, I'd say. And no Sylvanas please.

I'm ok with Thrall though

[gcsmith]

Our current cast of leading characters is truly pathetic. They are underdeveloped, underused, underpowered and lack any sorts of investment that could draw a horde player emotionally to them. To fix these issues it is needed that the horde council gets replaced with characters that could actually stand off against the big alliance super heroes.

Orcs - kill Thrall. Bring back AU Grommash
Trolls - Rastakhan and Jindo the Breaker
Tauren - Sark Ragetotem
Blood elves - kael’thas Sunstrider
Nightborne - Grand magistrix Elisande
Undead - sylvanas can come back.

Then the horde would be fixed.

"Stand up against the Alliance."... You're not the faction constantly giving a free pass to a group of people who have repeatedly tried to genocide them.

[Soon-TM]

Jesus Christ, why not just bring back Garrosh and Sylvanas and have them merge into Garvanas, the super brute who is so dark, edgy and irrationally angry that all Horde players get a +5 to Crit because the edge is so sharp.

When it comes to Dark&Edgy™, Alleria would mop the floor with Garvanas

[Thage]

neutral chaotic. Alliance should always be lawful good(As in we're never going to be bros nationwide but we "tolerate" each other.

Then the problem arises that the Horde as written is "Chaotic Neutral" in the way a murderhobo is "Chaotic Neutral." Instead of being focused on freedom and letting the wind take them where they will, they behave with malice and merrily engage in objectively-evil actions (like, say, incinerating a large chunk of the night elves' civilian populace) but claim it doesn't make them evil because that's not what it says on their character sheet. The Horde has been suffering from this schizophrenic characterization ever since Blizzard opted to put Garrosh in charge to drive narrative conflict between the factions at the most illogical times possible, and they've tripled down on it by putting a known nihilist in charge afterwards, leading to the identity crisis we have today.

[Boo Radley]

The problem with this thread is that im not sure if OP is making an elaborate jest about how childish some of the horde fans, and their ideas, are or is actually serious.

Poe's post.

[Aucald]

Well I'm just sick of losing our leaders all the time. Our current cast is full of c-listers. Mop and bfa took a heavy toll on the horde. They are most literally on their last leg.

I don't really disagree with that sentiment, but I think it's an unfortunate outgrowth of the Horde being WoW's primary actor, the active agent as opposed to the Alliance's more passive or reactive role, at least when it comes to the faction conflict (which we just finished settling, yet again).

- - - Updated - - -

neutral chaotic. Alliance should always be lawful good(As in we're never going to be bros nationwide but we "tolerate" each other.

Chaotic Neutral would actually be a fine place to be, as long as it was upheld - as opposed to the current "whatever alignment is necessary to move the story along."

[Boo Radley]

Then the problem arises that the Horde as written is "Chaotic Neutral" in the way a murderhobo is "Chaotic Neutral." Instead of being focused on freedom and letting the wind take them where they will, they behave with malice and merrily engage in objectively-evil actions (like, say, incinerating a large chunk of the night elves' civilian populace) but claim it doesn't make them evil because that's not what it says on their character sheet. The Horde has been suffering from this schizophrenic characterization ever since Blizzard opted to put Garrosh in charge to drive narrative conflict between the factions at the most illogical times possible, and they've tripled down on it by putting a known nihilist in charge afterwards, leading to the identity crisis we have today.

To be fair, no rational horde soldier could have known the tree would actually burn. Go outside and take a blowtorch to a live tree. It still wont burn. They're like 60% water when alive. How was throwing a flaming rock at it going to cause it to go up in seconds? Even if it was 100% dead it should take a long time to go up. You're telling me a tree that anchors the world to the realm of life, is constantly channeled with the strongest druidic magics and carefully monitored by an entire culture is significantly weaker than an IRL pine tree?

Either the tree was already dead, soaked in gasoline and thermite dust, the writers arent familiar with nature or something else is afoot. There's also the whole part where they werent going there to commit a genocide, or even to burn the tree at all but to conquer a territory. The burning and killing of civilians was perpetuated by what, 4 soldiers in total, one of which being Sylvanas? If there was no temper tantrum on Sylvanas' part the whole thing would have played out much differently, including with a generally honorable action of Saurfang insubordinately refusing to kill a defenseless Malfurion.

Either way its awful writing but the way to counter awful writing is not, as OP suggested, to write an even worse story.