Teldrassil Knowledge

[Magical Mudcrab]

Baine and his small following only acted up after sylvanas started acting against the horde and its ideals and even then they were a minority of horde members.

Really, the TL;DR of BfA is that (1) the Horde are the badguys, and (2) the Horde is OK with genocide.

[Maljinwo]

I was thinking more about him somehow sabotaging Sylvanas, or his cousin's soul confronting his in the Shadowlands since both will be there.

Bwonsamdi already faced him with his cousin's face.

Nathanos did show regret, but he justified everything by still simping Sylvanas

[Varitok]

"Bring the super catapults with the flaming spikeballs to the shores of the wood fortress"

Hmmmm

[Lorgar Aurelian]

The forsaken who fired the catapults have already been killed.

The catapults were maned by trolls orcs and cows not undead and we have no state on who they are let alone if they were killed.

[tommyhil622]

At the end of MoP, I feel like it'd be more of meme at that point, but at the end of Cata, I can see it more, especially considering he had numerous moments that conflicted with each other.

One thing with Garrosh is that you actually have retcons and behind the scene revelations 2 years later to vilify the character more. Apparently for 2 years, there was a bunch of human captives in Ogrimmar and we just never knew of it the whole time, but from the Alliance PoV coming into Orgrimmar, to you(if you're alliance) it must make us look guilty of this, despite it wasn't a thing until SoO.

Tbh, Blizzard is just really bad at developing their story, they had a really good story going on 15+ years ago and have just shitted on it constantly with every development. Did you know that after Thrall appointed a supposed racist warmonger as warchief, Voljin went and then did the same thing and everyone was shocked that the same story played out again

Hopefully we're done with faction conflict cause it's always a miss, especially with delivering the story to the players, especially both sides.

Agreed there were definitely missed opportunities in MoP. They essentially took a nose dive on his arc. They actually admitted their intent there but still excuted it in a weird manner.

I liked the Garrosh that kept Sylvannas in check and that samw Garrosh that threw the overlord off the ledge in stonetalon. If they kept in that direction, a Garrosh arc could have been rather interesting.

I wish they don't return to the faction conflict but like others have said, its just deep rooted into the game/lore. Just a matter of time before that starts up again. My hope is that if it comes to it, they would just keep it in the back drop and not make it the main theme of the expac.

[Mungho]

The catapults were maned by trolls orcs and cows not undead and we have no state on who they are let alone if they were killed.

My bad! I'd heard they were killed somewhere but I guess it was someone's head canon. But really, I could have sworn they were forsaken, but I refused to watch that scene again so I guess I misremembered it.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

My bad! I'd heard they were killed somewhere but I guess it was someone's head canon. But really, I could have sworn they were forsaken, but I refused to watch that scene again so I guess I misremembered it.

They aren’t shown in the cinematic it self it just shows the catapults firing but in a good war they are referenced to but not named.

[NorthernDragon]

They knew the second she ordered them to do it, and did it. They should have been slaughtered like the monsters they have always been.

You do know the vast majority of the Horde are civilians?

- - - Updated - - -

"Bring the super catapults with the flaming spikeballs to the shores of the wood fortress"

Hmmmm

I mean nobody saw any catapults until Blizzard magicked them

[Aucald]

They aren’t shown in the cinematic it self it just shows the catapults firing but in a good war they are referenced to but not named.

It happened fast. Faster than Saurfang could comprehend. A troll mage spread fire across the payloads, and with a pull of a lever on half a dozen siege engines, the Horde flung death into the air.

“No,” Saurfang whispered. He watched, speechless, as fire arced across the ocean.

Every single payload hit its target. Orange flames began to spread across Teldrassil. Silence fell over the Horde. Even the cries of the captured night elves vanished. Everyone watched in disbelief. (Source)

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It happened fast. Faster than Saurfang could comprehend. A troll mage spread fire across the payloads, and with a pull of a lever on half a dozen siege engines, the Horde flung death into the air.

“No,” Saurfang whispered. He watched, speechless, as fire arced across the ocean.

Every single payload hit its target. Orange flames began to spread across Teldrassil. Silence fell over the Horde. Even the cries of the captured night elves vanished. Everyone watched in disbelief. (Source)

Ya, Theres also an early mention of an orcs with the engines but just like the troll there super vague.

[Powerogue]

Sylvanas told everyone, Saurfang and the player included, that the goal was to capture the tree and kill Malfurion, so the Alliance could not use their ports to move azerite.

She lied about every reason for the invasion to make it seem like it could be "A Good War" and get Saurfang on board, then betrayed that trust in every way possible over the course of the expansion. Both Saurfang's trust, and by extension, ours. It was not A Good War, it was evil, a war against hope from inside and outside the Horde, and anyone who would not relinquish that were her enemies, even without lifting a hand against her.

Sylvanas betrayed the Horde, a traitor long before the gates of Orgrimmar.

[Aucald]

Ya, Theres also an early mention of an orcs with the engines but just like the troll there super vague.

I think it's laid out pretty well - the siege equipment is being maneuvered to point at Teldrassil, mostly so that scouts atop Teldrassil can report that the city is effectively surrounded and the Horde ready to open fire at any moment.

Saurfang issued orders rapidly. He organized the siege crews on the beach and made sure they were aimed toward Teldrassil. Scouts undoubtedly watched the Horde from the top of the World Tree. He wanted them to report that the Horde might open fire at any moment. (Source)

This is all while Saurfang is prepping the supposed ground assault on Teldrassil he assumed is taking place next, as was the original plan - and Sylvanas is talking to a dying Delaryn Summermoon before she issues her command to straight-up burn down Teldrassil.

[Verdugo]

Sylvanas told everyone, Saurfang and the player included, that the goal was to capture the tree and kill Malfurion, so the Alliance could not use their ports to move azerite.

She lied about every reason for the invasion to make it seem like it could be "A Good War" and get Saurfang on board, then betrayed that trust in every way possible over the course of the expansion. Both Saurfang's trust, and by extension, ours. It was not A Good War, it was evil, a war against hope from inside and outside the Horde, and anyone who would not relinquish that were her enemies, even without lifting a hand against her.

Sylvanas betrayed the Horde, a traitor long before the gates of Orgrimmar.

So is she unstable psycho that got trolled by a single Night Elf or a mastermind that played the entire faction. You have to explain because you yourself have not decided yet.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I think it's laid out pretty well - the siege equipment is being maneuvered to point at Teldrassil, mostly so that scouts atop Teldrassil can report that the city is effectively surrounded and the Horde ready to open fire at any moment.

Saurfang issued orders rapidly. He organized the siege crews on the beach and made sure they were aimed toward Teldrassil. Scouts undoubtedly watched the Horde from the top of the World Tree. He wanted them to report that the Horde might open fire at any moment. (Source)

This is all while Saurfang is prepping the supposed ground assault on Teldrassil he assumed is taking place next, as was the original plan - and Sylvanas is talking to a dying Delaryn Summermoon before she issues her command to straight-up burn down Teldrassil.

I mean vague in terms to who Is manning the engines, we got a troll an orc and I believe a cow all mentioned but none are named and we don’t get any further break down of races.

[tommyhil622]

I think it's laid out pretty well - the siege equipment is being maneuvered to point at Teldrassil, mostly so that scouts atop Teldrassil can report that the city is effectively surrounded and the Horde ready to open fire at any moment.

Saurfang issued orders rapidly. He organized the siege crews on the beach and made sure they were aimed toward Teldrassil. Scouts undoubtedly watched the Horde from the top of the World Tree. He wanted them to report that the Horde might open fire at any moment. (Source)

This is all while Saurfang is prepping the supposed ground assault on Teldrassil he assumed is taking place next, as was the original plan - and Sylvanas is talking to a dying Delaryn Summermoon before she issues her command to straight-up burn down Teldrassil.

Just goes to show that very few people actually knew what the hell Sylvannas was planning. To her own admission she changed the plan to setting it ablaze after Saurfang refused to kill Malfurion. But in reality in the context of the Shadowlands she was going to do it regardless.

[Aucald]

So is she unstable psycho that got trolled by a single Night Elf or a mastermind that played the entire faction. You have to explain because you yourself have not decided yet.

Those two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, though I think the evidence cleaves more toward Sylvanas being in the "mastermind" mold, especially as A Good War itself intimates she has a greater plan in mind.

And that was almost certainly true, wasn’t it? Elune had intervened. Perhaps she had even stayed Saurfang’s killing blow. And she wouldn’t be the only force beyond the Alliance to oppose Sylvanas’s true objective.

Sylvanas’s anger grew cold.

She had known this would happen. It had simply come sooner than expected. That was all. (Source)

[Garymorilix]

The only thing that was abosuletly batshit stupid regarding the whole War of Throns is Saurfang and/or Sylvanas NOT KILLING MALFURION THERE AND THEN.

It DOES NOT MATTER who or how but Malfurion should be long dead.
It would even be a good plot-line for Shadowlands, as just like Ysera, Malfurion would probably end up in Ardenweald as well so Tyrande could meet him there.

Malfurion ahs literally no presence in WoW anymore, he is too OP to be a faction leader that actually does something against the other faction but also too OP for players to actually interact with.
He has no personality, no goals outside "mY bEloVeD" and literally zero character growth or changes since Warcraft 3.
He is literally only in the game to be in the game.

Tyrande is the same old boring non-character but at least she got the night warrior shit going on now.
Malfurion has nothing.
It was the perfect time to write him out, give actual stakes to the war while simultaniously also setting up a nice reveal for Shadowlands (which Blizzard knew at the time was being made anyway).

My 2 cents.

[Aucald]

I mean vague in terms to who Is manning the engines, we got a troll an orc and I believe a cow all mentioned but none are named and we don’t get any further break down of races.

Based on the in-game presentation it was a goodly mix of people, although the forces present in Darkshore weren't very large as it was meant to be a lightning and surprise attack on Teldrassil while the rest of the Alliance and the Horde was occupied with the fighting in Silithus.

Just goes to show that very few people actually knew what the hell Sylvannas was planning. To her own admission she changed the plan to setting it ablaze after Saurfang refused to kill Malfurion. But in reality in the context of the Shadowlands she was going to do it regardless.

I don't think many people did know in the immediate sense, no; although it likely became common knowledge once the soldiers at Darkshore spread the word to their peers back in Orgrimmar and other Horde settlements.

[Powerogue]

So is she unstable psycho that got trolled by a single Night Elf or a mastermind that played the entire faction. You have to explain because you yourself have not decided yet.

People can be both, though "trolled by a single night elf" is a stupid way of putting it that I've never agreed with because I read the books. Someone can be cunning and manipulative and yet still make fatal mistakes when the right emotional buttons are pressed.

I could go back further and say she betrayed the Horde when she murdered her own forsaken who were trying to run back into her open arms for daring to consider hope of a better future.

Or go back even further, to when she captured a horde death knight for years of brainwashing experiments for daring to work with the alliance against a common enemy of the scourge instead of securing victory.

Sylvanas is Sylvanas. A terrible leader, and a terrible person.

[tommyhil622]

I don't think many people did know in the immediate sense, no; although it likely became common knowledge once the soldiers at Darkshore spread the word to their peers back in Orgrimmar and other Horde settlements.

Yea i would think the word of that event would spread but i do wonder if there was a distortion of that for example those that didn't go to Ashenvale. What was the version of the story they heard there? It's so different when you hear of what occurred via rumors and hearsay versus being in Ashenvale and witnessing the horror. Then you can have all this clouded with the Alliance Invasion of Lorderon. The message gets diluted and shifted.