If Sylvanas went to the maw and hated it

[Candy Cough]

So she flings herself off icecrown, dies and goes to what she calls hell. She hates it and makes a deal with the valkyr to leave

Is the hell she talked about even the maw? Are there valkyr in the maw?

Why did she suddenly do an 180 and join the guy that made her afterlife miserable?

Did she go to another unknown realm? If someone is ressurected, are their souls just pulled from the shadowlands without the intervention of the pantheon of death?

Death is even more confusing than timetravel imo

[Thage]

"Join me or I'll do to you what I do to them" can be a fairly compelling argument, in fairness.

[Super Dickmann]

Because she doesn't want to burn in hell forever and would rather fuck over everyone else and save herself than suffer eternal torment. She's a selfish bint, not exactly Mother Theresa. Also because originally he and the Maw didn't exist and her conclusion was to stay undead and raise as well as protect other undead, so some of it falls apart on even minor inspection.

On the questions of death, don't bother, Blizzard don't even know.

[Arrashi]

Because sylvanas is the one who created the maw 10 bilions years ago (this will be revealed in 9.0.5)

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Because she doesn't want to burn in hell forever and would rather fuck over everyone else and save herself than suffer eternal torment. She's a selfish bint, not exactly Mother Theresa.

On the questions of death, don't bother, Blizzard don't even know.

Thats not a fortunate comparison given a rumors about the latter

[Super Dickmann]

Thats not a fortunate comparison given a rumors about the latter

They both had intimate contact with disease.

[Ersula]

So she flings herself off icecrown, dies and goes to what she calls hell. She hates it and makes a deal with the valkyr to leave

Is the hell she talked about even the maw? Are there valkyr in the maw?

Why did she suddenly do an 180 and join the guy that made her afterlife miserable?

Did she go to another unknown realm? If someone is ressurected, are their souls just pulled from the shadowlands without the intervention of the pantheon of death?

Death is even more confusing than timetravel imo

Because working for the that guy *was* the deal. Annehilde & the Lich King's Valkyr don't work for Sylvanas, they work for the jailer: The Artbook confrims that. At this point we have to assume the underlying will in the Lich King's mantle is the Jailer. And what we see with Ben Howell & Uther is that the Scourge still have their souls, but they also pass into the Shadowlands. The power of the Jailer is he can essentially do with souls he claims whatever he wants. So it's not exactly mind control, but that he dunks them into the maw to torture them until they comply to his will.

Sylvanas, Arthas & Nerzhul were the subjects of the Jailer's ire. The theory being that they are forced to work for him just to end the nightmare. You can't chose to disobey because that just gets you replaced & sent to the maw. Bolvar never experienced any of this because he can't die.

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Because she doesn't want to burn in hell forever and would rather fuck over everyone else and save herself than suffer eternal torment. She's a selfish bint, not exactly Mother Theresa. Also because originally he and the Maw didn't exist and her conclusion was to stay undead and raise as well as protect other undead, so some of it falls apart on even minor inspection.

On the questions of death, don't bother, Blizzard don't even know.

Would any of the other characters have the strength to willingly choose to languish in the maw for eternity? I don't think so. Her only chance at a way out was Eyir's Lantern, that would have freed her from the power of the Jailer but Genn ruined that.

The only question is why did Sylvanas go to the maw in the first place? She was a noble warrior who died selflessly, like Uther. But Uther went to Bastion. Perhaps that (or Uther's actions) is what put the Arbiter to sleep: Bolvar was untouchable because he is deathless, so the Jailer had to work quickly to pick his new "champion"

[Super Dickmann]

Would any of the other characters have the strength to willingly choose to languish in the maw for eternity? I don't think so. Her only chance at a way out was Eyir's Lantern, that would have freed her from the power of the Jailer but Genn ruined that.

The only question is why did Sylvanas go to the maw in the first place? She was a noble warrior who died selflessly, like Uther. But Uther went to Bastion. Perhaps that (or Uther's actions) is what put the Arbiter to sleep: Bolvar was untouchable because he is deathless, so the Jailer had to work quickly to pick his new "champion"

It's a bit of a Griffith from Berserk style situation, where while the decision itself is heinous, most people would break in the same circumstance. Except incomprehensibly worse written.

As for how she went to the Maw, unless Blizzard are snorting crack, it's because of the Jailor hijacking her soul to use her as an agent given that Icecrown is a place where the veil between life and death is very thin.

[Houle]

Because working for the that guy *was* the deal. Annehilde & the Lich King's Valkyr don't work for Sylvanas, they work for the jailer: The Artbook confrims that. At this point we have to assume the underlying will in the Lich King's mantle is the Jailer. And what we see with Ben Howell & Uther is that the Scourge still have their souls, but they also pass into the Shadowlands. The power of the Jailer is he can essentially do with souls he claims whatever he wants. So it's not exactly mind control, but that he dunks them into the maw to torture them until they comply to his will.

Sylvanas, Arthas & Nerzhul were the subjects of the Jailer's ire. The theory being that they are forced to work for him just to end the nightmare. You can't chose to disobey because that just gets you replaced & sent to the maw. Bolvar never experienced any of this because he can't die.

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Would any of the other characters have the strength to willingly choose to languish in the maw for eternity? I don't think so. Her only chance at a way out was Eyir's Lantern, that would have freed her from the power of the Jailer but Genn ruined that.

The only question is why did Sylvanas go to the maw in the first place? She was a noble warrior who died selflessly, like Uther. But Uther went to Bastion. Perhaps that (or Uther's actions) is what put the Arbiter to sleep: Bolvar was untouchable because he is deathless, so the Jailer had to work quickly to pick his new "champion"

except we have yet to see confirmation that the previous LKs were the Jailers slaves.
If anything, it points to the opposite. All of them had something that stopped them from succumbing to the Jailer, hell, they even kept souls from the Maw by capturing them (either in Frostmourne or as soldiers for the Scourge)
Ner'zhul had his overwhelming thirst for revenge against the Legion and Kil'jaeden, Arthas had that "last bit of humanity" that held the Scourge and the full LK powers in check, and Bolvar was purified by Alexs flames.
Just because the LK uses Maw powers doesnt mean the Jailer has complete dominance over them. Sargeras doesnt control every fel user, and the void lords dont control ever void user.
Also, if the dreadlords truly turn out to be agents of the Jailer, and Ner'zhul was is pawn, he wouldnt have actively worked against them. They were clear enemies.

[NorthernDragon]

I mean the real reason is because Blizzard doesn't really plan ahead in stories which is why the plot from A to Z is so inconsistent. Lorewise it's because something something deal with the devil to avoid inevitable Hell. Even Bolvar is WTF YOU COULD'VE HAD HELM

[LemonDemonGirl]

I really really hope they don't plan on Kerrigan-ing her, and say that she was controlled when she went to the Maw the first time

Lets hope the Jailer gets tierd of her and just locks in the maw

[Ersula]

except we have yet to see confirmation that the previous LKs were the Jailers slaves.
If anything, it points to the opposite. All of them had something that stopped them from succumbing to the Jailer, hell, they even kept souls from the Maw by capturing them (either in Frostmourne or as soldiers for the Scourge)
Ner'zhul had his overwhelming thirst for revenge against the Legion and Kil'jaeden, Arthas had that "last bit of humanity" that held the Scourge and the full LK powers in check, and Bolvar was purified by Alexs flames.
Just because the LK uses Maw powers doesnt mean the Jailer has complete dominance over them. Sargeras doesnt control every fel user, and the void lords dont control ever void user.
Also, if the dreadlords truly turn out to be agents of the Jailer, and Ner'zhul was is pawn, he wouldnt have actively worked against them. They were clear enemies.

*The Dreadlords might not be agents of the jailer. And you definitely shouldn't assume they all have the same allegiances. But even then, if the Jailer sent them to work for the Legion, and had another minion actively rebel, he would still want his double-agents to continue the appearance of loyalty: Which is exactly what happened. The dreadlords don't really do anything to stop Nerzhul, in fact Mal'ganis helps quite a bit.
*We see Uther went to Bastion, so we see a character who's soul gets trapped in Frostmorne, still goes to the Shadowlands & potentially the maw. Just like Ben Howell. The Lich King wasn't saving anyone's soul from the Maw. The soul in Frostmorne & the soul in the shadowlands are quantum-entangled: Existing in two different places but still irrevocably connected.
*Ner'zhul, Sylvanas & as I'm told by his stans, Arthas were all good people when they died. Ner'zhul was just trying to save his wife's soul when Kil'jaeden tricked him. Bolvar was also a good person but he never died. He can't pass through the Shadowlands so he is the only person immune to the Jailer's machinations.*

*People are confused by this bit. "Why does Bolvar know about the Shadowlands if he supposedly never died?" The Artbook explains that: Bolvar can't die but he can see into the Shadowlands when he put on the Helm of Domination

[NorthernDragon]

It's a bit of a Griffith from Berserk style situation, where while the decision itself is heinous, most people would break in the same circumstance. Except incomprehensibly worse written.

As for how she went to the Maw, unless Blizzard are snorting crack, it's because of the Jailor hijacking her soul to use her as an agent given that Icecrown is a place where the veil between life and death is very thin.

Y'know I always assumed she went to the Maw because she was undead and undead souls are too damaged to really go anywhere else, thus her urgency in finding immortality for herself and the Forsaken to avoid the inevitable. I mean when Godfrey shot her didn't she return to the darkness a second time?

[Super Dickmann]

Y'know I always assumed she went to the Maw because she was undead and undead souls are too damaged to really go anywhere else, thus her urgency in finding immortality for herself and the Forsaken to avoid the inevitable

That was how it was originally envisioned and would have been a more interesting angle, but it's been decisively ditched in Shadowlands since I'm fairly sure you find undead among the Kyrian aspirants. The situation at the end of Edge of Night where Sylvanas' view of undeath is improved because of her belief that when you die you go to hell anyway made sense and also explains why people would want to be Forsaken instead of passing on, since unless they were protected by another power, the alternative to that existence was damnation.

[deviantcultist]

Technically speaking, the Edge of Night description of Sylvanas' afterlife resemble our current picture of the Maw.

If pre-Cata Sylvanas was considered worthy of the Maw, then something is really wrong with the moral state of the Shadowlands. I don't like current Sylvanas at all, but the self-righteous attitude of the Shadowlands I like even less.

[Ersula]

Y'know I always assumed she went to the Maw because she was undead and undead souls are too damaged to really go anywhere else, thus her urgency in finding immortality for herself and the Forsaken to avoid the inevitable. I mean when Godfrey shot her didn't she return to the darkness a second time?

That's what made me realize this entire theory: Knowing that the Valkyr work for the Jailer, you realize both times Sylvanas was resurrected *it was against her will*

Sylvanas is in a Sisyphean situation where the Jailer won't even let her die.

[Sorshen]

Don't try to apply any kind of logic to current year writing. You're gonna have a headache.

[deviantcultist]

It's a bit of a Griffith from Berserk style situation, where while the decision itself is heinous, most people would break in the same circumstance. Except incomprehensibly worse written.

I understand how you associate this, although I see Arthas as something closer to Griffith due to his grandiose ideals that came before his fall. Ironic that you mentioned Berserk, as I've been playing WoW for 10 years + and haven't managed to find a proper Guts tribute scenario since.

[Combatbutler]

They both had intimate contact with disease.

And both are/were sadists

[Houle]

*The Dreadlords might not be agents of the jailer. And you definitely shouldn't assume they all have the same allegiances. But even then, if the Jailer sent them to work for the Legion, and had another minion actively rebel, he would still want his double-agents to continue the appearance of loyalty: Which is exactly what happened. The dreadlords don't really do anything to stop Nerzhul, in fact Mal'ganis helps quite a bit.
*We see Uther went to Bastion, so we see a character who's soul gets trapped in Frostmorne, still goes to the Shadowlands & potentially the maw. Just like Ben Howell. The Lich King wasn't saving anyone's soul from the Maw. The soul in Frostmorne & the soul in the shadowlands are quantum-entangled: Existing in two different places but still irrevocably connected.
*Ner'zhul, Sylvanas & as I'm told by his stans, Arthas were all good people when they died. Ner'zhul was just trying to save his wife's soul when Kil'jaeden tricked him. Bolvar was also a good person but he never died. He can't pass through the Shadowlands so he is the only person immune to the Jailer's machinations.

Mal'ganis was helping bc Ner'zhul tricked the dreadlords into believing he needed Arthas as a champion. He was shocked when Ner'zhul ordered Arthas to kill him then and there.
And Uther is specifically an exception. Theres a reason they added a prayer to the light to "save his soul" as his last words. The light intervened and split his soul in 2, one half went into Frostmourne, and the other half to the Shadowlands.
But that is definitely not what normally happens. Normally, souls are sucked into Frostmourne whole.

[NorthernDragon]

That's what made me realize this entire theory: Knowing that the Valkyr work for the Jailer, you realize both times Sylvanas was resurrected *it was against her will*

Sylvanas is in a Sisyphean situation where the Jailer won't even let her die.

I mean that is probably what is going to happen but personally I am not a fan of the cosmic beings pulling the strings trope. I feel it kinda devalues characters