Ret - too many combat abilities?

[Improtaight]

Hi,

Logged into the pre-patch just yesterday, and trying to get my head around all the new/returned abilities.
from a first glance it seems like there are shit loads of stuff now, too many:

1. Crusader strike
2. judgment
3. Templar's verdict
4. Blade of Justice
5. Hammer of Wrath
6. Wake of Ashes
7. Divine Storm
8. Consecration

and to that you can add from your talents:

1. Seraphim
2. Final Reckoning
3. Execution Sentence

I know that DS replaces TV on AOE scenarios, but if you take into consideration more talents and different abilities, it seems like a cluster freck?

thoughts?

[Mars_Trueskills]

Well, they're not all abilities you need to press constantly..

My girlfriend plays ret paladin pretty good, didn't seem like an issue to her.. She did opt for a few of the passive talents though.

Rather that, than say.. Demon Hunter

[Improtaight]

Well, they're not all abilities you need to press constantly..

My girlfriend plays ret paladin pretty good, didn't seem like an issue to her.. She did opt for a few of the passive talents though.

Rather that, than say.. Demon Hunter

that's what i did as well, opted in for all the passive talents mostly.

you need to press crusader, judge, TV, blade, consec, wake, and hammer under 20%. those are just the on-going combat abilities without using things from talents.
its manageable, it just seems a tad too much from previous exps.

[ExiHext]

With the ridiculous cooldowns on all our abilities and the abyssmal proc chances you run into so many downtimes playing ret that I honestly do not understand how anyone finds we have too many abilities. You could only reduce them by lowering cooldowns across the board. You need CS, BoJ, Judgment, HoW (below 20%) and TV or DS frequently...those are 5 buttons at max. Wake has a 45s cd, Cons isn't even worth pressing if there ain't at least 8 targets at present. If you take all the left hand talents you have 5 rotational abilities...that's not much.

[Aranx]

I've mained ret for many years, and it doesn't feel like we have too many abilities. But when I play my affliction lock, I do feel I have many more buttons to press, for various situations.

Across the board, I think we just need to get used to the unpruning.

[Scifix]

I feel the opposite, finally enough buttons to press, and the combo potential with ExS, Final reck, seraphim is just alot of fun imo, although it`s a minute apart, the burst feels very nice

[Trenbolone]

Yes. I felt depressed after logging in after pre patch. Not only our roattion became more complicated but the ammout of utility is straigth depressing for me. The only returning ability I am happy about is HoW. Shame there aint talent for it (random proc whenever). I cant grasp why there are people happy about some of the absolutely dreadful abilities with almost no impact returning. Why get rid of Blessings and add Auras which are even more boring?

Consecration - I guess it might be good when doing old content after stupid AoE cap change. Otherwise - not gonna use it.
Auras - really? They dont feel impactful, meaningful or fun. I pressed Crusader Aura and that's it. Im not gonna interact with that button ever again most likely.
Blessing of sacrfice/Shield of Righteous - Did i pick a fucking tank spec? These stay in the spell book for me.
Turn Evil - Meh? Make our existing abilities interact differently with undead instead of more useless buttons.
WoG/FoL dilema - Make that a talent choice god dammit! I'm gonna use only one of them anyway!

I only pick passive talents now. More buttons? No thanks, most of them are not interesting anyway so why bother? Been maining ret since Wrath, so i wil main it still. But man im gonna spend more time on DH now. People calling for unpruning are lunatics in my opinion. Less buttons that are more interesting please. Crusader strike could very well go and most people would not see any difference. WoD was a holy grail of an expansion in terms of gameplay flow. MORE UNPRUNING PLEASE. Make it talent optional but give people an option to have fewer buttons with slight performance hit.

[dispatchcrab]

I think they are finally in a place where they feel smooth and fluid to me!

Somewhat easy rotation though

[Magneto]

Hi,

Logged into the pre-patch just yesterday, and trying to get my head around all the new/returned abilities.
from a first glance it seems like there are shit loads of stuff now, too many:

1. Crusader strike
2. judgment
3. Templar's verdict
4. Blade of Justice
5. Hammer of Wrath
6. Wake of Ashes
7. Divine Storm
8. Consecration

and to that you can add from your talents:

1. Seraphim
2. Final Reckoning
3. Execution Sentence

I know that DS replaces TV on AOE scenarios, but if you take into consideration more talents and different abilities, it seems like a cluster freck?

thoughts?

While on paper they may look like many, you can really condense them down to a few with the use of macros if you like. ofc this goes at the cost of top dps. I myself am not so good at pressing too many spells or monitoring too many timers, be it in priotity or loop systems, but you are also not forced to do so.

If you like to be the top guy you need to handle the spells. if you, like me, are fine with being the cool but not top guy, then it's ok to opt for passives .

SO, i think it's nice for a class to have a bad->meh->good->better->best dps ranking based on you personal skilllevel.

[caramel0rar0]

Have you tested Alock? Rdruid?

[Zephire]

Hi,

Logged into the pre-patch just yesterday, and trying to get my head around all the new/returned abilities.
from a first glance it seems like there are shit loads of stuff now, too many:

1. Crusader strike
2. judgment
3. Templar's verdict
4. Blade of Justice
5. Hammer of Wrath
6. Wake of Ashes
7. Divine Storm
8. Consecration

and to that you can add from your talents:

1. Seraphim
2. Final Reckoning
3. Execution Sentence

I know that DS replaces TV on AOE scenarios, but if you take into consideration more talents and different abilities, it seems like a cluster freck?

thoughts?

What would you rather have?

I have not been bothered about this at all so never really thought about it. Maybe too many but if some are removed you'd have to lower the CD on all other. I do think ret have way to many power up abilities though:

1. Seraphim
2. Execution Sentence
3. Final Reckoning
4. Holy Avenger
5. Avenging Wrath

And they're almost always chained together in some way. I just don't like it. Much rather have Avenging Wrath only and all others are passive improvements to it or other abilities.

Just some freehand examples:

1. Execution Sentence -> Replace Hammer of Justice. Stunning the target for 6 sec, increasing holy damage it takes by 20% applied comulative in a massive burst after 6 sec (the damage part still applies on CC immune targets).
2. Final Reckoning -> Build stacks when attacking. At 20 stacks your next Divine Storm becomes free. Every target damaged by that Divine Storm takes 50% increased Holy damage for 6 sec.
3. Holy Avenger -> When Avenging Wrath is active, your Holy Power gained is doubbled.
4. Seraphim -> This one could still be like it is, I guess.

SO, i think it's nice for a class to have a bad->meh->good->better->best dps ranking based on you personal skilllevel.

That's a fair point.

[The Butt Witch]

Well, they're not all abilities you need to press constantly..

My girlfriend plays ret paladin pretty good, didn't seem like an issue to her.. She did opt for a few of the passive talents though.

Rather that, than say.. Demon Hunter

When it comes to PVP, you need EVERYTHING.

Hence why it's an issue with having too many buttons. You can't go "easy mode" if you want to be good in PVP.

[crusadernero]

Off topic yes, BUT WHERE THE HELL ARE THE BLESSINGS? WHY REMOVE THEM?

[Alithia]

While on paper they may look like many, you can really condense them down to a few with the use of macros if you like. ofc this goes at the cost of top dps. I myself am not so good at pressing too many spells or monitoring too many timers, be it in priotity or loop systems, but you are also not forced to do so.

If you like to be the top guy you need to handle the spells. if you, like me, are fine with being the cool but not top guy, then it's ok to opt for passives .

SO, i think it's nice for a class to have a bad->meh->good->better->best dps ranking based on you personal skilllevel.

What macros are you using?

[Segus1992]

Have you tested Alock? Rdruid?

I don't think any of this is a problem (though I agree some talents could replace other skills or be off GCD), but seriously? Aff lock does not have a lot of combat abilities, nor does Rdruid. Both have fewer than Ret.

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Off topic yes, BUT WHERE THE HELL ARE THE BLESSINGS? WHY REMOVE THEM?

They were pretty pointless, I feel. Nice flavour but effectively did nothing. I'd prefer to have kept them but after Might was removed they always felt incomplete anyway.

I do feel like Kings could've become a raid buff like in the past, but with auras that probably would've lead to paladins being too good at passive utility again.

[gd8]

I don't think any of this is a problem (though I agree some talents could replace other skills or be off GCD), but seriously? Aff lock does not have a lot of combat abilities, nor does Rdruid. Both have fewer than Ret.

affliction has an extremely busy rotation

[Bloodyleech]

Yes. I felt depressed after logging in after pre patch. Not only our roattion became more complicated but the ammout of utility is straigth depressing for me. The only returning ability I am happy about is HoW. Shame there aint talent for it (random proc whenever). I cant grasp why there are people happy about some of the absolutely dreadful abilities with almost no impact returning. Why get rid of Blessings and add Auras which are even more boring?

Consecration - I guess it might be good when doing old content after stupid AoE cap change. Otherwise - not gonna use it.
Auras - really? They dont feel impactful, meaningful or fun. I pressed Crusader Aura and that's it. Im not gonna interact with that button ever again most likely.
Blessing of sacrfice/Shield of Righteous - Did i pick a fucking tank spec? These stay in the spell book for me.
Turn Evil - Meh? Make our existing abilities interact differently with undead instead of more useless buttons.
WoG/FoL dilema - Make that a talent choice god dammit! I'm gonna use only one of them anyway!

I only pick passive talents now. More buttons? No thanks, most of them are not interesting anyway so why bother? Been maining ret since Wrath, so i wil main it still. But man im gonna spend more time on DH now. People calling for unpruning are lunatics in my opinion. Less buttons that are more interesting please. Crusader strike could very well go and most people would not see any difference. WoD was a holy grail of an expansion in terms of gameplay flow. MORE UNPRUNING PLEASE. Make it talent optional but give people an option to have fewer buttons with slight performance hit.

Blessing of Sac has nothing to do with tanking. It's a VERY strong utility CD, that only bad players wont use. In addition to the fact that you use Crusader Aura instead of Prot Aura... yeah, mate. I hope you don't do any content with other players.

[iosdeveloper]

if it's too many for you - try classic)

[crusadernero]

I don't think any of this is a problem (though I agree some talents could replace other skills or be off GCD), but seriously? Aff lock does not have a lot of combat abilities, nor does Rdruid. Both have fewer than Ret.

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They were pretty pointless, I feel. Nice flavour but effectively did nothing. I'd prefer to have kept them but after Might was removed they always felt incomplete anyway.

I do feel like Kings could've become a raid buff like in the past, but with auras that probably would've lead to paladins being too good at passive utility again.

Yeah true.. But I did enjoy having the blessings. Now they added the auras to bring back old abilites and class fantasy, but removing the blessings all over is bad. The blessings didnt need to be super strong, but it was a nice flavour to the paladin class.

The auruas themself aint that cool anyway. I mean, we get a buff when someone in grp/raid dies? Whats that about? Mount speed is welcomed and cool I guess.

What im saying is that Blizzard said they wanted to return more to the RPG & class fantasy style. Removing blessings(and other buffs like HotW for Druids) aint helping on that.

Im rolling as a combat-holy Paladin and I love the role as a healer that supports with more than heals+can do OKish dps. Blessings just fits in.

[Bloodyleech]

When it comes to PVP, you need EVERYTHING.

Hence why it's an issue with having too many buttons. You can't go "easy mode" if you want to be good in PVP.

If you want to be good in PvE, you can't go easy mode there, too. As much as you can slack in PvE via chosing "weak" talents, or not using all abilities, you can do it in PvP, too. So.. No, you don't NEED everything in PvP. It all depends on "if you want to be good..."

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I don't think any of this is a problem (though I agree some talents could replace other skills or be off GCD), but seriously? Aff lock does not have a lot of combat abilities, nor does Rdruid. Both have fewer than Ret.

- - - Updated - - -



They were pretty pointless, I feel. Nice flavour but effectively did nothing. I'd prefer to have kept them but after Might was removed they always felt incomplete anyway.

I do feel like Kings could've become a raid buff like in the past, but with auras that probably would've lead to paladins being too good at passive utility again.

You played Afflock in prepatch yet? If you want to go for good dmg it's a really busy spec, way busier than ret (because all abilities have charges/cds)