Torgast only 6 floors???

[Zeusy]

There seems to be a great deal of confusion around the word balance. In this context it is being used to say the content could be balanced around an endless mode, rather than 18. What some extremely disingenuous people (not you, to be clear) are trying to say is that anyone who dare mention the word "balance" is asking for every ability and spec to be perfectly balanced - I havnt seen ANYONE ask for that. But if a different iteration of Torgast did exist, it would most likely be balanced quite differently, with ability acquisition spaced out differently, and with content getting harder as you progress beyond a certain point, to create a kind of softcap.

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No, you are just really confused about what people mean when they say "balance" or you are intentionally misinterpreting it to make it seem like its impossible to do what people are asking for.

I don't really know much about the place but it sounds like you would need someone to check out each classes journey through Torgast. As someone mentioned arcane damage is able to 1 shot or turn into furniture.. So would you need someone looking at how each class as a whole progresses through the content? Or how would you manage to balance it for the class to have an enjoyable experience all the way.

Scrapping balancing every spec to have a fair journey and just looking at how a class would have fun throughout an endless mode, I don't see how from a development side there could be a way to balance a classes experience throughout an endless mode.. Would it turn into a endless mode but softcapped per class spec? If you balanced up to say... 150 floors for a "mage", then arcane mage would lets say reach floor 150.. frost would cap at like 80.. etc? or how would that be done exactly.. Removing all RNG things and just scaling it up #s wise until you just can't do it anymore? If it was just as simple as removing RNG for the endless mode and balancing numbers I suppose I could "see" how you could make a spec or class have an endless mode but It seems blizzard really didn't want to dump resources to completely revamp the mode by removing RNG and such. Torgast seems to be intended to have all those RNG talents and spells though...

[FelPlague]

As expected, your entire argument is based on how it is right now. Do you know what iteration means? It means a DIFFERENT version of the same thing. Do you know what different means?

So again, you dont want torghast.
you want something entirely different
so again i reference the day9 video.
that is horrible feedback.

"I dont want this game, i want you to make AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT GAME that is in my head"

[arkanon]

So again, you dont want torghast.
you want something entirely different
so again i reference the day9 video.
that is horrible feedback.

"I dont want this game, i want you to make AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT GAME that is in my head"

And again, you fail to understand a basic concept - iteration - a different version of the same thing. Not an entirely different thing, and certainly not an entirely different game, stop arguing from such extremes, it makes your argument look petty and childish. Link your youtube heroes all you want, their opinion is no more or less important than yours or mine.

[FelPlague]

And again, you fail to understand a basic concept - iteration - a different version of the same thing. Not an entirely different thing, and certainly not an entirely different game, stop arguing from such extremes, it makes your argument look petty and childish. Link your youtube heroes all you want, their opinion is no more or less important than yours or mine.

True, they are no more or less, but it is a point common made.
what you want is not torghast.
you want to change it to a way it can be balanced.
which is not what torghast is
it is not what it is about
and what you describe is not fun.

people like torghast, not an infinite duration dungeon.

[arkanon]

and what you describe is not fun.

Yet again you confuse your opinion with fact. Who are you to tell other people what is and isnt fun?

[FelPlague]

Yet again you confuse your opinion with fact. Who are you to tell other people what is and isnt fun?

The same as you.
but im someone who has actually played it.
and people who are playing it, are finding it fun.
so maybe play it first, or stop trying to make opinions on things you have not even tried.

[arkanon]

The same as you.
but im someone who has actually played it.
and people who are playing it, are finding it fun.
so maybe play it first, or stop trying to make opinions on things you have not even tried.

Here we go again - you claiming to have spent, and i quote, "THOUSANDS of hours in Torgast" while assuming (incorrectly) that no one else has entered Torgast at all.

[FelPlague]

Here we go again - you claiming to have spent, and i quote, "THOUSANDS of hours in Torgast" while assuming (incorrectly) that no one else has entered Torgast at all.

I didnt claim that here (in the post you qoute), i said ive played it, you havent.
I havent claimed no one has, but you obviously have not by thinking it could be balanced without completly changing what torghast is, into something else that is not fun, and is not enjoyable.

to balance it would turn it into literally just islands 2.0

the fun of it is because it is not balanced, and thats what makes it different, because it is unbalanced.
the fun of torghast is not the maps or the place, but the powers, if you got these powers and put them on island expeditions they would be fun too.

torghast is islands 2.0
but that is a good thing, cause its an improvement.

[arkanon]

I didnt claim that here, i said ive played it

Don't tell me you forgot about your lie already? I have told you, I have played it. Im just not childish enough to claim to have spent "Thousands of hours" in there.

take is as someone who has done thousands of hours of torghast.

[Tojara]

Really depends on what you want from this type of feature.

A game like Hades has short 20-40 minute runs which allows you to keep some form of progression when you 'beat' a run. This is used to make further runs easier, but its counter-balanced by additional tuning mods to make it harder as well.

Then you have a game like Risk of Rain 2 which can last virtually forever (if you want) and each run is it's own thing. Sure you unlock things (different loadouts, characters, and items that can spawn in the game), but it doesn't really change your playthroughs all the much compared to a game like Hades. Each run in RoR2 is basically it's own independent thing, and previous runs virtually have no bearing on your future ones.

Risk of Rain 2 is really fun, but there comes a point where you basically have to play like a complete idiot if you get far enough in the game to die. You can almost stand still and kill the entire screen while being invincible and nearly AFK. At that point it sort of loses it's luster, but it's still really fun. RoR2 basically ebbs and flows with difficulty. The beginning is sort of average and it ramps up in difficulty until a tipping point where you either die, or you virtually become unstoppable (from my experience playing on the hardest difficulty with over 100 hours in).

What you prefer is entirely up to you. As it's own system within a game like WoW, I don't think it can replicate either of the above two games, nor should it. Also, I don't think it's wise to try to balance Torghast under a microscope, because all rogue games are basically designed with the possibility of getting the right upgrades and godlike RNG to just have an amazing run happen out of the blue once and awhile. Having bland and universally uninteresting upgrades takes away from a lot of the fun (IMO), and ideally, I'd say it's better to lean towards more overpowered shit as opposed to keeping everything really balanced with neat numbers.

From what I've gathered in this thread, 18 floors as opposed to endless amounts of floors doesn't mean the game necessarily gets worse. Like in my RoR2 example, there comes a point where you just rush the exit and you're invincible. From what it sounds like, Torghast eventually became that in it's endless mode too, where you were just rushing the exit. Perfectly fine to have a different opinion, but that's when I checked out in RoR2 and deleted myself (in game) or actually beat the last boss in the newest update.

[FelPlague]

Don't tell me you forgot about your lie already? I have told you, I have played it. Im just not childish enough to claim to have spent "Thousands of hours" in there.

again no actual argument so back to semantics argument again,can you just stop and keep on the actual subject?
just putting back on ignore at this point, i rather not argue semantics with you and detract from the discussion.

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Then you have a game like Risk of Rain 2 which can last virtually forever (if you want) and each run is it's own thing. Sure you unlock things (different loadouts, characters, and items that can spawn in the game), but it doesn't really change your playthroughs all the much compared to a game like Hades. Each run in RoR2 is basically it's own independent thing, and previous runs virtually have no bearing on your future ones.

Risk of Rain 2 is really fun, but there comes a point where you basically have to play like a complete idiot if you get far enough in the game to die. You can almost stand still and kill the entire screen while being invincible and nearly AFK. At that point it sort of loses it's luster, but it's still really fun. RoR2 basically ebbs and flows with difficulty. The beginning is sort of average and it ramps up in difficulty until a tipping point where you either die, or you virtually become unstoppable (from my experience playing on the hardest difficulty with over 100 hours in).

I have not played hades, but i play lots of ROR2
and i have had many runs where as engineer, i get like 2-3 items and then... i just win... the rest of the run is a hilarious cakewalk. get your fungus, get some shield, then get the "extra healing becomes a shield" and then you just fucking win as engineer, and so i will usually just sacrifice myself to the alter, or go to the moonboss just to end the run, cause i can be ffing bothered to try and go for like hours when i can just afk and win.

[Mojo03]

So it’s basically a 6 floor dungeon with some special abilities now?

[FelPlague]

So it’s basically a 6 floor dungeon with some special abilities now?

I mean if you say it that way yeah? it was a infinite floor dungeon with some special abilities.

but nah its 6 floors or 18 floors
and has TONS of special abilities.

[Mojo03]

I mean if you say it that way yeah? it was a infinite floor dungeon with some special abilities.

but nah its 6 floors or 18 floors
and has TONS of special abilities.

Are the mobs and layout all pre determined now or are they random?

[FelPlague]

Are the mobs and layout all pre determined now or are they random?

Maps are made out of "map fragments" so MOST maps are 100% random, there is some maps that are pre-determined as they are boss levels and so its just a boss arena, and there is some "map fragments" that are pretty big, so most of a level might be a single map fragment. but yeah map placement is random


and so are mobs, mobs are entirely random too, sometimes you find halls with no mobs even. but yeah mobs are also random, although every 3 floors has a "theme" so you will run into the same kinds of mobs for 3 floors, like the elementals have broken free, and now we are fighting elementals that are also fighting the maw creatures, oh necromancers everywhere skeletons all over that explode on death. oh a jailbreak! tons of vrykul who are breaking free, so they will be fighting the maw enemies aswell, and they are quite powerful.

[MrLachyG]

No. I'm saying you're claiming to be someone you're not. I can look at the credits of people's youtube videos and say I'm them all day long. That doesn't make it true. You've already been dishonest in this thread more than once and you've been really dishonest in other threads as well. But I'm done debating this with you. As I said, there's no point in debating with someone who is going to be dishonest with their responses.

you of all people have ZERO right to call someone dishonest. almost every single post of yours is dishonest, you're possibly the most dishonest user on this site

edit: as for the topic at hand, 6 floors/18 floors is much better than endless. if it truly were endless the powers you would gain would basically make you immortal and to balance it out the mobs would basically have to either 1 or 2 shot you. so it becomes a slugfest instead of a dungeon crawl. endless would not be good, the current thing of 18 floors is fine

[Heeresman]

So 2 reasons to do Torgast:

1) Leg mats
2) Cosmetics

So if they didn't put in currency for legs to grind each week, then 85-90% wouldn't do it. (At a guess)

[TheRevenantHero]

you of all people have ZERO right to call someone dishonest. almost every single post of yours is dishonest, you're possibly the most dishonest user on this site

edit: as for the topic at hand, 6 floors/18 floors is much better than endless. if it truly were endless the powers you would gain would basically make you immortal and to balance it out the mobs would basically have to either 1 or 2 shot you. so it becomes a slugfest instead of a dungeon crawl. endless would not be good, the current thing of 18 floors is fine

Just because you disagree with my opinions, doesn't make me dishonest. I've never lied about anything so the word dishonest really doesn't apply at all.

[huth]

edit: as for the topic at hand, 6 floors/18 floors is much better than endless. if it truly were endless the powers you would gain would basically make you immortal and to balance it out the mobs would basically have to either 1 or 2 shot you. so it becomes a slugfest instead of a dungeon crawl. endless would not be good, the current thing of 18 floors is fine

That's really the problem with it. It either becomes a slog through no-effort land or a session of Nuclear Rocket Tag. Neither is going to be terribly fun for very long.

[Speedlance]

If it has limitations it will be boring very fast, if endless doesnt work like m+ with mythic raiding rewards its going to be useless. I was thinking finally some solo content that gave good rewards, but nah. It will be fun for a week, limited as f*** and then it goes back down to something you have to do, not want to do.