Turkey threatens legal, diplomatic action over Charlie Hebdo’s caricature of Erdogan

**Acidbaron** · 2020-11-15, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Kuntantee

I agree that Turks in Europe are extremely politicized and polarized, thanks to Erdogan. However, everything people do not like these days is dismissed as "heavy nationalism". There are certain policies of Turkey that will not change even if an atheist was in charge. The way Macron handled post-murder would be criticized by Turkey regardless of the political alignment.

Furthermore, Turkey did not do damage to Europe in any shape or form yet gets all the shit. The hate Turkey gets in Europe is unjustified.

I was not trying to generalize here, but i was indeed specifically speaking of that group that adore "The Gray Wolves" movement. I was fortunate enough to grow up within a fairly diverse community and so stereotypes never got a full hold over my judgement of others, mostly because i also was on the receiving end of it at times.

I also find it to be more a game of where two are involved, both taunt and challenge each other. Erdogan is no innocent in this, in actively campaigning here and turning local politicians into unfavourable characters to say it kindly especially if they have a kurd background. So often i find it is the the aggressor taking on the role of the victim when they experience pushback and i still find Erdogan wants this because political leaders like him need enemies to thrive especially when things aren't going great.

Sure things would never change and they don't have to, Islam is part of your culture but you do have to raise your eyebrows at some steps taken against a the secular state.

**Kuntantee** · 2020-11-15, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Acidbaron

I was not trying to generalize here, but i was indeed specifically speaking of that group that adore "The Gray Wolves" movement. I was fortunate enough to grow up within a fairly diverse community and so stereotypes never got a full hold over my judgement of others, mostly because i also was on the receiving end of it at times.

We also find a good portion of those type of movements cringe. The real grey wolves are not active anymore, most of what we have is bunch of thugs. Also do note that real nationalist party, MHP, who is related with Grey wolf kind of movements in Turkey can barely get 10%.

Originally Posted by Acidbaron

I also find it to be more a game of where two are involved, both taunt and challenge each other. Erdogan is no innocent in this, in actively campaigning here and turning local politicians into unfavourable characters to say it kindly especially if they have a kurd background. So often i find it is the the aggressor taking on the role of the victim when they experience pushback and i still find Erdogan wants this because political leaders like him need enemies to thrive especially when things aren't going great.

Erdogan is an extremely toxic leader. He always talks shit. I will also give you that he's utilizing the reach of our state in Europe to politicize Turkish communities in there, to consolidate his position among diaspora voters while putting them in a shit position in their respective countries. However, even this doesn't justify the shit we get from Europe. To this day, Turkey tries to cooperate with EU. Maybe I am biased but I can't rationalize the position of Western press towards Turkey.

My point his, he does infinitely more damage to Turkey than he does to Europe.

Originally Posted by Acidbaron

Sure things would never change and they don't have to, Islam is part of your culture but you do have to raise your eyebrows at some steps taken against a the secular state.

We did more than just raising an eyebrow but we can't force him out with force. He gets the votes and he makes environment extremely unfair for his opponents but the problem is, his voters are okay with it and therefore he can get away with it. He is likely to lose next elections though.

**Acidbaron** · 2020-11-15, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Kuntantee

We also find a good portion of those type of movements cringe. The real grey wolves are not active anymore, most of what we have is bunch of thugs. Also do note that real nationalist party, MHP, who is related with Grey wolf kind of movements in Turkey can barely get 10%.

Erdogan is an extremely toxic leader. He always talks shit. I will also give you that he's utilizing the reach of our state in Europe to politicize Turkish communities in there, to consolidate his position among diaspora voters while putting them in a shit position in their respective countries. However, even this doesn't justify the shit we get from Europe. To this day, Turkey tries to cooperate with EU. Maybe I am biased but I can't rationalize the position of Western press towards Turkey.

My point his, he does infinitely more damage to Turkey than he does to Europe.

We did more than just raising an eyebrow but we can't force him out with force. He gets the votes and he makes environment extremely unfair for his opponents but the problem is, his voters are okay with it and therefore he can get away with it. He is likely to lose next elections though.

In general here the negativity is more aimed at the Turkish government and it's leader than the actual country or people for how much you can separate one or the other. I guess it depends what you read exactly, i know international press can get a distorted view depending on where they are located what is a fairly common thing in Belgium due to the international press being located in Brussels and predominately french speaking.

If i have to think of actual examples of what we see here is the effort to raise Muslim schools in Europe, the refugee card as in he'll simply send them into Europe those are the only two big things i can think of. A few cases of social unrest but those are fairly minor. Another might be how well they are integrated but this is too easy to blame on one side as the closed of communities were formed in a response to how politics dealt with "guest workers".

**Azadina** · 2020-11-15, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Kuntantee

Erdogan is an extremely toxic leader. He always talks shit. I will also give you that he's utilizing the reach of our state in Europe to politicize Turkish communities in there, to consolidate his position among diaspora voters while putting them in a shit position in their respective countries. However, even this doesn't justify the shit we get from Europe. To this day, Turkey tries to cooperate with EU. Maybe I am biased but I can't rationalize the position of Western press towards Turkey.

"Give us X,Y, Z and D or else we release a wave of X million refugees to EU!"

What you call cooperation, many others call extortion.

**Theodarzna** · 2020-11-15, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Mormolyce

Is there something I should know about moviebob?

*EDIT*

Okay so I did some googling, you guys appear to be referencing some Twitter drama between him and Lindsay Ellis?

I never pay attention to Twitter drama. I am confident I can find better ways to waste my time.

I'm speaking of his embrace of eugenics and other nut-bag shit, his recent getting thrashed recently is just funny, But his takes and opinions are absolutely atrocious.

**Kuntantee** · 2020-11-15, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Azadina

"Give us X,Y, Z and D or else we release a wave of X million refugees to EU!"

What you call cooperation, many others call extortion.

You shouldn't have helped USA destabilize the region in the first place then and frankly, those refugees, you should have already sheltering a good portion. Germany took lots of them in already. How many did France or UK take in? 30k?

**Themius** · 2020-11-15, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Kuntantee

You shouldn't have helped USA destabilize the region in the first place then and frankly, those refugees, you should have already sheltering a good portion. Germany took lots of them in already. How many did France or UK take in? 30k?

France and the U.K. made the maps that screwed up the major part of it. The USA was giddy to help.

**Theodarzna** · 2020-11-15, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by Themius

France and the U.K. made the maps that screwed up the major part of it. The USA was giddy to help.

Man, i am trying to remember who or what was this Empire that ruled that region prior to that. I wonder, do you consider them benevolent rulers?

This is an interesting set of problems, While the USA, France and Britain janked the region to death; I am unsure if the heirs of the Ottoman Empire get to make any critiques on that respect.

**Kuntantee** · 2020-11-15, 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by Themius

France and the U.K. made the maps that screwed up the major part of it. The USA was giddy to help.

While my country (Turkey) also contributed to the destruction of Syria. That infamous agreement is not that relevant when it comes to foreign-funded Sunni uprising in Syria. Turkey, Gulf states, USA and major EU powers basically destroyed Syria. Do not interpret what I am saying here as Assad is angel though.

Now, we are already paying the price of what we have done; 5 million refugees. USA is too far to be affected from this humanitarian nightmare. I can't understand the complaints I am hearing from the Europeans in here though. You do not want refugees? Don't mess with countries.

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