Doing progress as ARCANE

[VodkaBlyat]

My question is simple..

What makes arcane spec almost invisible in all theorycraft discussions?

It have a HUGE ST damage, its really good for cleave & AOE and our survivability is even better as we have to go for FAE. Im struggling so much since the start of SL.. People are talking so much on which spec is "the go to" for progress and i don't see you talking a lot about arcane while im doing countless amount of testing, arcane seems to be WAY better in almost every situation, am i wrong?

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Frost has funnel capability, fire has execute. Every spec has close range AoE to varying degrees. What does arcane bring when all three specs are within like 70 DPS?

[HCLM]

Frost has funnel capability, fire has execute. Every spec has close range AoE to varying degrees. What does arcane bring when all three specs are within like 70 DPS?

Highest ST burst dmg.

[Kuni Zyrekai]

Highest ST burst dmg.

So once a fight, when hero+shard+AP are all up, arcane pulls ~20% higher burst for approximately 15 seconds, and ends the fight at functionally the same DPS as the other two. That's..not really something to write home about. Especially since mage is on the low end of DPS specs.

The question is why is it invisible to theorycraft. The fact is that there are a lot of people who want arcane to work, and a good 3-4 who put in a LOT of time and effort into the APL. It simply does not bring something widely useful to a mythic raid, and thus no one finds it interesting. Funnel ability is useful, it allows adds to be turned into boss damage. Execute is useful, many bosses are horrifying in the last part of the fight. ST burst and sub-par sustain is just whatever, doubly so on a poorly performing class. And that's with optimal cooldown timings that have no care in the world for what the boss's timers require. What happens when you need that huge burst 2 minutes into the fight? Your lead goes down the drain because you weren't allowed to hero+shard on pull and get the second shard use.

You could also argue that most people find the spec boring, it's relatively immobile, its spec-specific defensive is weaker than the other two's for progression, hell there's even been a couple fights where prismatic barrier was a hindrance due to the magic debuff duration reduction vs dispel timers. But at the end of the day, unless it brings something useful to the raid as a whole that can't just be replaced by not playing mage, it'll continue to be irrelevant.

[james2400]

So once a fight, when hero+shard+AP are all up, arcane pulls ~20% higher burst for approximately 15 seconds, and ends the fight at functionally the same DPS as the other two. That's..not really something to write home about. Especially since mage is on the low end of DPS specs.

The question is why is it invisible to theorycraft. The fact is that there are a lot of people who want arcane to work, and a good 3-4 who put in a LOT of time and effort into the APL. It simply does not bring something widely useful to a mythic raid, and thus no one finds it interesting. Funnel ability is useful, it allows adds to be turned into boss damage. Execute is useful, many bosses are horrifying in the last part of the fight. ST burst and sub-par sustain is just whatever, doubly so on a poorly performing class. And that's with optimal cooldown timings that have no care in the world for what the boss's timers require. What happens when you need that huge burst 2 minutes into the fight? Your lead goes down the drain because you weren't allowed to hero+shard on pull and get the second shard use.

You could also argue that most people find the spec boring, it's relatively immobile, its spec-specific defensive is weaker than the other two's for progression, hell there's even been a couple fights where prismatic barrier was a hindrance due to the magic debuff duration reduction vs dispel timers. But at the end of the day, unless it brings something useful to the raid as a whole that can't just be replaced by not playing mage, it'll continue to be irrelevant.

What sims are those ?

[Specialka]

For now at least, in every m0 I did, I always finished top dps without overgearing the others.

[HCLM]

So once a fight, when hero+shard+AP are all up, arcane pulls ~20% higher burst for approximately 15 seconds, and ends the fight at functionally the same DPS as the other two. That's..not really something to write home about. Especially since mage is on the low end of DPS specs.

The question is why is it invisible to theorycraft. The fact is that there are a lot of people who want arcane to work, and a good 3-4 who put in a LOT of time and effort into the APL. It simply does not bring something widely useful to a mythic raid, and thus no one finds it interesting. Funnel ability is useful, it allows adds to be turned into boss damage. Execute is useful, many bosses are horrifying in the last part of the fight. ST burst and sub-par sustain is just whatever, doubly so on a poorly performing class. And that's with optimal cooldown timings that have no care in the world for what the boss's timers require. What happens when you need that huge burst 2 minutes into the fight? Your lead goes down the drain because you weren't allowed to hero+shard on pull and get the second shard use.

You could also argue that most people find the spec boring, it's relatively immobile, its spec-specific defensive is weaker than the other two's for progression, hell there's even been a couple fights where prismatic barrier was a hindrance due to the magic debuff duration reduction vs dispel timers. But at the end of the day, unless it brings something useful to the raid as a whole that can't just be replaced by not playing mage, it'll continue to be irrelevant.

Arcane is doing everything the other specs can. Why should u bring Fire if u can bring arcane, same dmg, better aoe, better burst, better funneling.

[Specialka]

Fire has à cheat death. Arcane has not. Fire has also execute dmg.

[D3athsting]

Fire has à cheat death. Arcane has not. Fire has also execute dmg.

And right now is the less performing spec in the whole game

[Specialka]

And right now is the less performing spec in the whole game

Gotta love those people that takes a single post out of context.

[Hooligun]

What sims are those ?

My same question exactly. Mage as lowest DPS? I am normally top DPS in Mythics and Heroics right now as an Arcane mage with similarly or higher geared DPS. :shrug:

[Makorus]

I feel like Touch of the Magi and Shifting Power is a huge boon for Arcane, but it feel like they will crumble if there is any fight with lots of movement. I suppose Slipstream + Arcane Infinity is a good counter to that, but we will see how it turns out.

[Aphrel]

For now at least, in every m0 I did, I always finished top dps without overgearing the others.

- - - Updated - - -

My same question exactly. Mage as lowest DPS? I am normally top DPS in Mythics and Heroics right now as an Arcane mage with similarly or higher geared DPS. :shrug:

short fights are excellent for arcane sicne 2x burn phase...

[Aggrophobic]

Arcane is doing everything the other specs can. Why should u bring Fire if u can bring arcane, same dmg, better aoe, better burst, better funneling.

Fire has execute, more mobile and has a "cheat death".

[VodkaBlyat]

Fire has execute, more mobile and has a "cheat death".

I would love, like really love to be agree with y'all about Fire's execute but lets be real 2 minutes guys. Fire's damage between combustion at this stage is almost as good as a healer with or without our "holy" execute phase. Numbers are important and tbh Arcane outperform Fire in almost all situations and scale so much better with that new Mastery.

Lets talk about real situations here for a moment, i love Fire but i really don't see myself hardcasting a 3sec flamestrike in a MM progress just to "exist".
Touch of Magi is a 30sec CD (Fae) buffed (new Mastery) that lane perfectly with RoP in between 2 Burn phases, yea its a better sustain, way better priority target etc.

About legendaries, as Fire we Need two of them, one for ST and the other one for Cleaving situations. As arcane whatever situations you face the choice is the same. The fact that everything is time gated makes us choose between the most "flexible" as fire meaning that we might lose again a bunch of damage on priority targets vice versa..

Imo the upcoming tunning will not change the actual state of the mage... And i think going for frost or fire is mistake, maybe not frost but fire.. I don't feel it ^^

[Aggrophobic]

I would love, like really love to be agree with y'all about Fire's execute but lets be real 2 minutes guys. Fire's damage between combustion at this stage is almost as good as a healer with or without our "holy" execute phase. Numbers are important and tbh Arcane outperform Fire in almost all situations and scale so much better with that new Mastery.

Lets talk about real situations here for a moment, i love Fire but i really don't see myself hardcasting a 3sec flamestrike in a MM progress just to "exist".
Touch of Magi is a 30sec CD (Fae) buffed (new Mastery) that lane perfectly with RoP in between 2 Burn phases, yea its a better sustain, way better priority target etc.

About legendaries, as Fire we Need two of them, one for ST and the other one for Cleaving situations. As arcane whatever situations you face the choice is the same. The fact that everything is time gated makes us choose between the most "flexible" as fire meaning that we might lose again a bunch of damage on priority targets vice versa..

Imo the upcoming tunning will not change the actual state of the mage... And i think going for frost or fire is mistake, maybe not frost but fire.. I don't feel it ^^

You can go whatever you want. If you like arcane, play that.

[ThiagoTorres]

I usually top dps as a fire mage and im sucks playing fire.. What i really like is frost, but playing m0 i feel like fire have much more aoe damage, i dont put the same dps as frost like i do with fire

[Zenfoldor]

Fire class fantasy has a big niche, imo. I always have to fight off the urge to play fire each xpak. Arcane just feels a little more obscure. I'm not talking about numbers or anything from a practical perspective, but rather my perception of the popularity of the class/spec fantasy. Fire is just cool. That shouldn't matter, but I think it ends up mattering.

[HCLM]

Fire has execute, more mobile and has a "cheat death".

And Arcane has 60% dmg reduction on 2min cd which can be used the cheese most mechanics.

[davesignal]

My question is simple..

What makes arcane spec almost invisible in all theorycraft discussions?

It have a HUGE ST damage, its really good for cleave & AOE and our survivability is even better as we have to go for FAE. Im struggling so much since the start of SL.. People are talking so much on which spec is "the go to" for progress and i don't see you talking a lot about arcane while im doing countless amount of testing, arcane seems to be WAY better in almost every situation, am i wrong?

Arcane is harder to play than Frost or Fire, and people doing progression raiding don't want to expend the mental energy that they normally dedicate to doing mechanics.