Does the Kyrian covenant story make them any less horrendous?

[Xilurm]

Well you can have your mind fucked with all you want dude. Me i rather have keep mine thanks.

You can, cause you won't go to the Shadowlands when you die, cause you know, it's not a real place, it's a video game.

See this is what me and many other people mean when they say they don't like politics in video games. And then there's the people that are like "B-b-b-b-b-bUt ThErEs PoLiTiCs iN eVeRy gAmE"

Yes but no.

Politics that are in the game that serve to add depth to the lore and the places that exist within the game are cool af. That's not the point though. The point is that everyone and their grandma will come and spout their views of how this and that is wrong. And while the Kyrians and all that other stuff might seem cool, people shoving their agenas onto it make everything seem like utter trash.

"Kyrians are slavers who destroy your personality!

Venthyr are torturers!

Maldraxxi force you to fight to the death for some shitty realm!

Night Fae just fucking kill you!

The Orcs are savage murderers and rapists!"

Why do that when you can just have fun? The Kyrians are selfless souls that make a sacrifice for the greater good. The forsworn are the bad guys here, there's no other way around it.

[huth]

Your understanding is correct.

I think he's trying to suggest that the Kyrians may have been judging inappropriately in who they chucked into the Maw. Either that or he's confused and thinks the people who recently arrived in the Maw (which is potentially the vast majority of souls we find there), were put there by the Kyrians, which they were not. Arthas probably was inappropriately chucked into the Maw given a pretty naughty Kyrian told Maw-tainted Uther to do it, and Uther didn't really even question it, just came up with an easy rationale for his choice, and if he was chucked in there inappropriately, it certainly raises the question of how many others have been.

But I'm not aware of any random kids chucked into the Maw.

He thinks the Kyrian are aware of the state of the Arbiter, which at least prior to our arrival in Bastion, they almost certainly are not. At least the non Maw/Forsworn ones.

[Rendark]

Not much to lose anyway, it seems.

Did i hurt your poor little feelings because i don't agree with you? How sad...

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You can, cause you won't go to the Shadowlands when you die, cause you know, it's not a real place, it's a video game.

See this is what me and many other people mean when they say they don't like politics in video games. And then there's the people that are like "B-b-b-b-b-bUt ThErEs PoLiTiCs iN eVeRy gAmE"

Yes but no.

Politics that are in the game that serve to add depth to the lore and the places that exist within the game are cool af. That's not the point though. The point is that everyone and their grandma will come and spout their views of how this and that is wrong. And while the Kyrians and all that other stuff might seem cool, people shoving their agenas onto it make everything seem like utter trash.

"Kyrians are slavers who destroy your personality!

Venthyr are torturers!

Maldraxxi force you to fight to the death for some shitty realm!

Night Fae just fucking kill you!

The Orcs are savage murderers and rapists!"

Why do that when you can just have fun? The Kyrians are selfless souls that make a sacrifice for the greater good. The forsworn are the bad guys here, there's no other way around it.

Ok? What's your point? You're talking about how its a game and not real, how you don't like politics in games and how the Kyrians are both evil and selfless good guys.

[ymirsson]

Did i hurt your poor little feelings because i don't agree with you? How sad...

But this whole convo started because i didn't agree with you. Do you have a general problem with causalities?

[Nagawithlegs]

The Kyrian are not bad. As people have mentioned, impartial Kyrian would lead to falsely placed souls (see: Bad Half Uther dumping Arthas in the Maw).

It can be argued that the Archon is an idiot however. There should just be tighter regulations on who is accepted as a Kyrian.

[Rendark]

But this whole convo started because i didn't agree with you. Do you have a general problem with causalities?

And since i don't agree with you, you decided to insult out of nowhere. Get a life dude.

[Dervrak]

Ironically the souls in Maldraxxus seem to have the most in the way of personal freedom (if you don't mind an eternity with your soul in a stitched husk I suppose). They can join a house and leave at anytime or ally with a different house, or they can make a name for themselves in the arena and become a independent fighter or broker. The souls in Ardenweald are probably next on the list, but the Winter Queen seems to dictate everything from what job they do to what grove they work at. Then the souls in Bastion and Revendreth have the worst of it, becoming mind erased drones in Bastion and being just straight up slaves in Revendreth.

[ymirsson]

And since i don't agree with you, you decided to insult out of nowhere. Get a life dude.

Did i hurt your feelings because i disagreed with you?

[Nagawithlegs]

The souls in Ardenweald are probably next on the list, but the Winter Queen seems to dictate everything from what job they do to what grove they work at.

Actually, the Sylvar/Fae/Centaurs don’t seem to be ghosts or souls, they’re a natural race that live there.

The ghosts are the glowing soulshapes and they don’t seem to have obligations, the WQ just lets them hang around.

[huth]

Ironically the souls in Maldraxxus seem to have the most in the way of personal freedom (if you don't mind an eternity with your soul in a stitched husk I suppose). They can join a house and leave at anytime or ally with a different house, or they can make a name for themselves in the arena and become a independent fighter or broker. The souls in Ardenweald are probably next on the list, but the Winter Queen seems to dictate everything from what job they do to what grove they work at. Then the souls in Bastion and Revendreth have the worst of it, becoming mind erased drones in Bastion and being just straight up slaves in Revendreth.

Actually, Bastion souls have a lot of freedom. They're not becoming mind-erased drones, they always keep their free will. They are also free to decide when and if they want to attempt any of the challenges on the path of Ascension. And contrary to what some claim, the judgement of the Arbiter is not absolute if it isn't Revendreth; if you really don't get along, you can leave for a different afterlife. At least, you could if the paths hadn't be severed because of the drought. That this so rarely happens says something about the competence of the Arbiter.

Now, Revendreth souls obviously don't have that much freedom... but it still isn't so much intended as a prison as more of a rehabilitation place. The Maw is the prison realm, although they seem to be experiencing something of an inmate revolt at the moment.

[RobertMugabe]

Your're offended because you want to be offended and are intentionally missing the whole point of what kind of dead people even become Kyrians...

Also they aren't just mindless beings who got their mind erased, but they forget their past lives, because in their context and purpose, all that stuff that happened in their lives is meaningless in the afterlife (which isn't offensive, but is absolutely logical) and so they just "move on" as in forget about it and become something new

[Greyfang]

Your understanding is correct.

I think he's trying to suggest that the Kyrians may have been judging inappropriately in who they chucked into the Maw. Either that or he's confused and thinks the people who recently arrived in the Maw (which is potentially the vast majority of souls we find there), were put there by the Kyrians, which they were not. Arthas probably was inappropriately chucked into the Maw given a pretty naughty Kyrian told Maw-tainted Uther to do it, and Uther didn't really even question it, just came up with an easy rationale for his choice, and if he was chucked in there inappropriately, it certainly raises the question of how many others have been.

But I'm not aware of any random kids chucked into the Maw.

Thanks for clarifying, I thought that's how it was.

[music49]

I mean, there are legit reasons for why kyrians need to lose their memories as the ferrying job requires impartiality to work. You can't have any personal bias taint your decision or task while dealing with souls.

though why do the rest of kyrians need to also lose their memories when their job doesn't handle souls, like the guards or whoever.

so ya, archon after spires saying "kyrians need to talk" which will lead to some changes, I assume the ones who have to actually ferry the souls will still require the sacrifice, but the rest could keep their memories if they want to. I'm sure some don't care for memories seeing as this is the afterlife and those memories don't really matter.

Was typing this almost word for word, up vote.

[Edward Wu]

The people who are against Stewards and their "enslavement" are the same people who will push for complete free will in AI robots and get us all killed with their "compassion".

[Xilurm]

Did i hurt your poor little feelings because i don't agree with you? How sad...

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Ok? What's your point? You're talking about how its a game and not real, how you don't like politics in games and how the Kyrians are both evil and selfless good guys.

What exactly don't you understand? You're treating it as if it's a real thing. You're upset at it like it's a real thing. You wouldn't be here in this thread arguing about it for days if it didn't upset you that much.

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The people who are against Stewards and their "enslavement" are the same people who will push for complete free will in AI robots and get us all killed with their "compassion".

This is true. And scary.

[MakeMeLaugh]

You guys saying their past memories doesn't matter are completely wrong and didn't pay attention to the game at all, that's the complete opposite to what you find from Kyrians, they are glad they remember things.

Guess you guys would be fine if we wiped everyone's minds just to follow one way, the "right" way.

[Phaqfu]

How is cleansing yourself of any possible bias horrible, and makes them evil. Look was happened with Devos and Uther, without the mind wipe, Uther circumvented the archon and chose to judge Arthas himself.

[Xilurm]

You guys saying their past memories doesn't matter are completely wrong and didn't pay attention to the game at all, that's the complete opposite to what you find from Kyrians, they are glad they remember things.

Guess you guys would be fine if we wiped everyone's minds just to follow one way, the "right" way.

It's not everyone's.

[huth]

The people who are against Stewards and their "enslavement" are the same people who will push for complete free will in AI robots and get us all killed with their "compassion".

People need to stop treating Terminator as a documentary. An AI would likely far more rational than a human, and most violence isn't terribly rational behaviour.

On the other hand, anybody going against "enslaving" Stewards doesn't understand Stewards. These creatures literally exist to serve and actually need to be ordered to take a vacation for their own wellbeing. Which they will spend pining for when they get to return to work.

Dredgers are a bit more palatable since they spent most of their time complaining about anything and everything, just like most players.

[Grandork]

How is cleansing yourself of any possible bias horrible, and makes them evil. Look was happened with Devos and Uther, without the mind wipe, Uther circumvented the archon and chose to judge Arthas himself.

Exactly. The whole idea is that the Kyrians will never take justice into their own hands. No matter how good or evil they perceive the person to be, they will always leave it to the Archon.

Let's take a look at lady Vashj. Vashj was known to be a slaver. What if the Kyrian that went for her Soul was a Slave himself and decided that her place was in the Maw? That means she would have never gone to the Arbiter and given a second chance in Maldraxxus.