SPOILERS: Shadowlands Lore Thread

[Edward Wu]

This might be ancient lore by now and nobody cares but I wonder if Thrall will reunite with Taretha Foxton a bit in Shadowlands? I think that'd be pretty cool.

[Xilurm]

This might be ancient lore by now and nobody cares but I wonder if Thrall will reunite with Taretha Foxton a bit in Shadowlands? I think that'd be pretty cool.

The interaction between Darion and Alexandros made me hope for so much more.

[Nerovar]

I mean, the Jailer is foreshadowed a little bit in WC3. In the first undead mission Arthas claims to serve Frostmourne when KT asks him if he's all right.

But that's strange because Frostmourne itself is never really shown to be sentient. And it's obviously not the LK because Arthas obviously changes and becomes a different person as soon as he touches Frostmourne, but he doesn't revert back even when he loses connection with the LK in TFT.

So it's been pretty obvious for a long long time that there's some kind of entity outside of the usual LK cast of characters that has been controlling Arthas's actions.

I don't think it's "obvious" at all. Frostmourne was an extension of the Lich King's will. It was literally a part of Ner'zhul that he deliberately split-off in order to corrupt an agent who was willing to pick it up. Arthas simply didn't know initially that the voice he heard from Frostmourne was the voice of the Lich King. Also Arthas wasn't different after he picked up Frostmourne because he was somehow mind-controlled by the Jailer's influence. He was different because he gave up his soul by taking up Frostmourne and the influence of the Lich King turned him mad.

"Tichondrius: The runeblade that you carry was forged by the Lich King and empowered to steal souls. Yours was the first one it claimed."

"After taking his vengeance upon Mal'Ganis, Prince Arthas wandered off into the frozen wastelands of Northrend.
Tormented by Frostmourne's maddening voice, Arthas lost the last vestiges of his sanity.
Now, driven by the sword's dark will, Arthas plans to return home to Lordaeron and claim his just reward..."

Nothing about any of this can be considered foreshadowing for the Jailer.

[darkoms]

Go ahead and tell me how many people merged with two Void demi-gods and survived.

Hint: It's a rhetorical question.

You can say that about anyone, lol.
Tell me how many people jumped on the thorns of the old god's blood and returned from the Maw after that.
Tell me how many people have become the avatar of the old god.
Tell me how many people were absorbed by the powers of Gul'Dan's skull and survived.

Your bias and subjectivity in relation to Alleria is not denied even by you. You are no better than the fans of Sylvanas or Arthas.

[Varodoc]

You can say that about anyone, lol.
Tell me how many people jumped on the thorns of the old god's blood and returned from the Maw after that.
Tell me how many people have become the avatar of the old god.
Tell me how many people were absorbed by the powers of Gul'Dan's skull and survived.

In fact I never said those maggots above are ordinary people, so I don't know why you are going on this weird tangent.

Yes, I am biased towards Alleria, and I am not going to deny that. So what? Continue... you have a point to make, yes?

Also you didn't answer my question, but oh well, I predicted that.

[Mehrunes]

<snip>

Gonna address just a few of the most wrong things since I can't really be bothered. First, all Mueh'zala took credit for in regards to Helya was that he introduced her to the Jailer. That's all. Helya created Helheim with the same power she used to create the Elemental Planes before she even got killed and resurrected by Odyn as a Val'kyr, let alone before Mueh'zala used the resentment towards Odyn it created in Helya. And while she was merely annoyed in the dungeon fight, after her defeat in the raid she was outright damning Odyn. It took us an expansion to learn she didn't actually die. Also, Odyn being amazed by Shadowlands says nothing about Mueh'zala and his powers. Finally, where is it said that Mueh'zala is the strongest Loa?

Moving on, the Scepter of Sargeras cannot "unleash some of Sargeras' true might" on anyone, because it doesn't contain any of Sargeras' might. Sargeras didn't craft it, nor was his power used by the Eredar that did when they were crafting it. And even that aside, the fact that it may be beyond planetary scale only weakens your point in argument with @UndedoKoleda. Because it was borrowed power. We lost if when we sacrificed the Artifacts to drain Sargeras' sword. Making your claims that we're getting so much stronger in expansion after expansion because we wielded such artifacts rather baseless. And really, we're stronger than Aspects now? Deathwing was capable of reshaping entire mountain ranges as the Earthwarder. When has a mortal Shaman, let alone the player, ever compared to that in power? Speaking of whom, he was in fact finished off by the Dragon Soul.

And there's absolutely nothing indicating that the borrowed power we got in BfA or Shadowlands actually trumps the boost we got during Legion. The borrowed power of Shadowlands is us getting just one extra offensive ability and linking our souls with some random members of the Covenants. It's hardly comparable to what we were empowered by before.

[cocomen2]

wow is mostly supposed to be a medieval story
1800s arent medieval lol

Hush, don't risk to attract Tinker fans or they gonna R.I.P. yours "medieval" story ; "But there space ships, but there gnomish lasers and aliens"

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Hush, don't risk to attract Tinker fans or they gonna R.I.P. yours "medieval" story ; "But there space ships, but there gnomish lasers and aliens"

Well it is a silly thing to say. WoW is certainly not suppose to be a medieval story.

[TheFirstOnes]

You dare compare the Queen to that undead trash?

Azshara's fodder, bro.

[Xilurm]

Azshara's fodder, bro.

She's definitelly coming back.

[Sorrowseer]

Special Dialogue with Rogues
Kearnen the Blade has special dialogue for Rogues who have completed the Order Hall Campaign - You are able to tell her that her last efforts were not in vain!
The margrave may be gone, but that doesn't mean our efforts have stopped. We'll have our vengeance in due course.

The following dialogue can only be seen by Rogues who have completed the Order Hall Campaign:
Wait--you... you're from Azeroth. Tell me, did my message get to the Uncrowned?

> Yes, I delivered it.

Thank you... it's good to know my last efforts weren't in vain.

=================
this is Dialogue with Amber Kearnen in Maldraxxus
https://www.wowhead.com/news=319508/...in-shadowlands

Man, erg, I was so mad at the time she was killed off in the order hall campaign so most rest of the playerbase 'did not even know'.

[TheFirstOnes]

Gonna address just a few of the most wrong things since I can't really be bothered. First, all Mueh'zala took credit for in regards to Helya was that he introduced her to the Jailer. That's all. Helya created Helheim with the same power she used to create the Elemental Planes before she even got killed and resurrected by Odyn as a Val'kyr, let alone before Mueh'zala used the resentment towards Odyn it created in Helya. And while she was merely annoyed in the dungeon fight, after her defeat in the raid she was outright damning Odyn. It took us an expansion to learn she didn't actually die. Also, Odyn being amazed by Shadowlands says nothing about Mueh'zala and his powers. Finally, where is it said that Mueh'zala is the strongest Loa?

Moving on, the Scepter of Sargeras cannot "unleash some of Sargeras' true might" on anyone, because it doesn't contain any of Sargeras' might. Sargeras didn't craft it, nor was his power used by the Eredar that did when they were crafting it. And even that aside, the fact that it may be beyond planetary scale only weakens your point in argument with @UndedoKoleda. Because it was borrowed power. We lost if when we sacrificed the Artifacts to drain Sargeras' sword. Making your claims that we're getting so much stronger in expansion after expansion because we wielded such artifacts rather baseless. And really, we're stronger than Aspects now? Deathwing was capable of reshaping entire mountain ranges as the Earthwarder. When has a mortal Shaman, let alone the player, ever compared to that in power? Speaking of whom, he was in fact finished off by the Dragon Soul.

And there's absolutely nothing indicating that the borrowed power we got in BfA or Shadowlands actually trumps the boost we got during Legion. The borrowed power of Shadowlands is us getting just one extra offensive ability and linking our souls with some random members of the Covenants. It's hardly comparable to what we were empowered by before.

Gonna just reply to this rq.

Mueh'zala did introduce her to the Jailer, yes. So, in a way, I guess I can agree to that not being very "true". But her creating Hellheim is not at all of the same scale towards when she made the Elemental Planes, as, well, she was empowered by the Jailer when that happened. Mueh'zala showing Odyn the Shadowlands can be a feat because Mueh'zala is stated to wield a ton of power in the Shadowlands, especially with De Other Side. Odyn had to lose his eye in order to pierce through the Veil, and even then, he made the HoV, which was an afterlife plane that, imo, doesn't really seem all too impressive compared to something like De Other Side. Though, you could argue they're relative? Idk. Helya's amps are probably akin to Mueh'zala's amps though, possibly a bit smaller as Mueh'zala's been by the Jailer's side for a long time. So, I'm certain he alone is about Keeper Level, if not above it.

"And while she was merely annoyed in the dungeon fight, after her defeat in the raid she was outright damning Odyn" This is after we upgraded our Artifact power, gained Odyn's blessing, and had our Legendaries imbued/powered up. Not to mention there were more of us when we fought Helya in the raid. And that's not even her real domain, as she just returned to the Shadowlands soon after, which basically means we didn't face her true power.

"Finally, where is it said that Mueh'zala is the strongest Loa?" That was speculation of mine, I will admit, but there are implications that the Jailer made Mueh'zala at the very least one of the top. Especially over his mastery of Death (Which makes him stronger, especially after the Anima boosts and Jailer amps), and overwhelming might regarding reality manipulation (AKA Shatter Reality).

"Moving on, the Scepter of Sargeras cannot "unleash some of Sargeras' true might" on anyone, because it doesn't contain any of Sargeras' might. Sargeras didn't craft it, nor was his power used by the Eredar that did when they were crafting it." I was fairly certain he had a part to play in its crafting in the Artifact Knowledge story. Guess not, then.

"And even that aside, the fact that it may be beyond planetary scale only weakens your point in argument with @UndedoKoleda. Because it was borrowed power. We lost if when we sacrificed the Artifacts to drain Sargeras' sword" We're using barrowed power in Shadowlands as well. Also, the scepter was definitely beyond Planetary scale, even prior to us wielding it. It being drained by Sargeras' blade actually does not diminish what it did and could do prior to it.

"Making your claims that we're getting so much stronger in expansion after expansion because we wielded such artifacts rather baseless." Not really, as we gained different artifacts and barrowed power, even after Legion, to trample foes more powerful than us afterward. Azshara required the HoA, Azerite Gear, and I think the Titan Prison keeping N'Zoth locked in, and N'Zoth required the cloak, the HoA, and the reorigination device's power being fueled within us to destroy him. And this is after N'Zoth took full control of the Old Gods' empire, and was warping literal dimensions to reach Azeroth.

"And really, we're stronger than Aspects now?" Atm, in Shadowlands, with the Covenant amps and barrowed power, sure.

"Deathwing was capable of reshaping entire mountain ranges as the Earthwarder." Pretty nice downplay, considering Molten Core Ragnaros could do the exact same fucking thing. No, Deathwing as Neltharian literally controlled the entire earth around the Planet. And as Deathwing, during the 4.3 fight against him, he was legit shaking the Emerald Dream to its very core, slowly causing its collapse, and the dream consists of Infinite Layers and is not bound by the concepts of Space-Time. And note that I am still saying all of this while defending our shit, as in Legion, with our barrowed power/amps from others, we not only destroyed Xavius, who was about to bring the entire end of the Emerald Dream, but we also destroyed guys like Kil'Jaeden (Second in command of the fucking Burning Legion and wielder of Countless Magics), and Argus (The Death Titan, the guy that was going to bring about the End of All Things), and whatnot.

Without the barrowed power, and with mere stupid fucking gear and a weapon, the Aspects trample us. Yes. That is NOT my argument though. My argument is that the barrowed power amps in Shadowlands are, imo, much greater than the amps we gained in Legion. Which should mean we're above the Aspects in Shadowlands WITH OUR CURRENT AMPS! Not on a daily fucking basis, like how Goku does his shit every day, etc.

"Speaking of whom, he was in fact finished off by the Dragon Soul." Not really? He was demolished by the Dragon Soul after a failed attempt, and was still alive and all fucked up afterwards (In fact, he was also more pissed off). It required the combined powers of the Aspects, the Dragon Soul getting amplified by them, as well as us poking his lil toes to defeat him.

"And there's absolutely nothing indicating that the borrowed power we got in BfA or Shadowlands actually trumps the boost we got during Legion" Uhm, yeah there is. Domination Gear (Which already slaps the Blades of the Fallen Prince artifact, which is basically drained domination power, meaning it's not as powerful as it once was), Conduits that give us powers similar to the Artifact traits in Legion, Soul Binds that actually empower us a bit, Anima conductors that help fuel us with Anima, and whatnot. I'd say the amps are very similar to Legion, if not beyond that. The only thing is that, instead of Artifact Weapons, we have domination gear and external effects from other people aiding us.

"The borrowed power of Shadowlands is us getting just one extra offensive ability and linking our souls with some random members of the Covenants." Like I said, no. You merely just picked the very bare minimum of what we're actually empowered by in the Shadowlands.

Oh, and if you want an actual fucking reason for why we're above our Legion and BFA selves, wait for the Sire Denathrius fight. Considering the Eternal Ones (At their prime) are said to be on par with Titans, and considering the Sire is getting empowered by the Maw/the Jailer, as well as all the anima he's been hounding in Revendreth, I'm pretty certain he's going to be above baselined Titan Level, which is already beyond Argus the Unmaker in terms of power. My point is that, the fight alone should show you just how big our barrowed power amps are. And this is WITHOUT aid from the Pantheon of Death members and whatnot.

I'm just saying, you guys are kinda lowering your standards for an expansion that's all about expanding upon the Cosmic War and showcasing to everyone that the Cosmic Pantheons aren't the top dogs in this shit.

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She's definitelly coming back.

Well, yeah, I know that. She's still fodder.

[Ophenia]

Regardless, since you like more recent sources so much, Chronicles 1 states that the Titans are God-like, and since the Eternal Ones have been compared to the Pantheon, they are God-like as well.

Quake is a Doom-like, so Quake is Doom ?

[TheFirstOnes]

You can say that about anyone, lol.
Tell me how many people jumped on the thorns of the old god's blood and returned from the Maw after that.
Tell me how many people have become the avatar of the old god.
Tell me how many people were absorbed by the powers of Gul'Dan's skull and survived.

Your bias and subjectivity in relation to Alleria is not denied even by you. You are no better than the fans of Sylvanas or Arthas.

Also, reminder that Alleria's not even that powerful. She's strong, sure. But like, she's below Tyrande, Malfurion, and even Illidan in terms of power, I'm pretty certain.

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This might be ancient lore by now and nobody cares but I wonder if Thrall will reunite with Taretha Foxton a bit in Shadowlands? I think that'd be pretty cool.

You're not the only one that wants to see it, bro.

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The interaction between Darion and Alexandros made me hope for so much more.

I wanna see Varian interact with Anduin in the Shadowlands. I'm fairly certain the Legion didn't destroy his entire soul. The guy was probably sent to Ardenweald, thanks to his pact with Goldrinn.

[Varodoc]

Quake is a Doom-like, so Quake is Doom ?

False equivalency. There is no clear definition of what a "God" is, so a creature that spawned an entire realm, is "eternal", administers the Afterlife, has God-like powers, and is worshipped by their own Covenant could definitely count as a God. Notice how no one who challenged me has proposed a set of alternate qualities that define a "God".

Meanwhile Doom is literally a videogame, there is no ambiguity there.

Also, reminder that Alleria's not even that powerful. She's strong, sure. But like, she's below Tyrande, Malfurion, and even Illidan in terms of power, I'm pretty certain.

Whatever. Power levels don't make a good character, they never did and never will. Alleria is way more interesting than any of those mongrels above. Wait for the Light and Void expansion and you'll see.

[TheFirstOnes]

Blizzard: "What if we just retcon a character into existence who was actually behind every single event in history even though none of this was foreshadowed in any way"
WoW fans: *Applaud ferociously* "Wow, he's so clever and evil! I never saw this coming!"

I never said I liked it.

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I fucking hate it. Makes Kil'jaeden, the DECEIVER, look like an absolute retard. Same with Sargeras.

[Varodoc]

I never said I liked it.

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I fucking hate it. Makes Kil'jaeden, the DECEIVER, look like an absolute retard. Same with Sargeras.

They were always children playing at a dangerous game really. Sargeras was so demented that he was willing to flip the whole table just to win the game, but instead he ended up losing everything.

[TheFirstOnes]

False equivalency. There is no clear definition of what a "God" is, so a creature that spawned an entire realm, is "eternal", administers the Afterlife, has God-like powers, and is worshipped by their own Covenant could definitely count as a God. Notice how no one who challenged me has proposed a set of alternate qualities that define a "God".

Meanwhile Doom is literally a videogame, there is no ambiguity there.


Whatever. Power levels don't make a good character, they never did and never will. Alleria is way more interesting than any of those mongrels above. Wait for the Light and Void expansion and you'll see.

Alleria is in like, 2 quests throughout all of Argus excluding Mac'aree, 1 pretty big questline at Mac'aree, 2 secret interactions, and in some small dialogue scenes at Antorus in 7.3, a small book, 2 chats with Turalyon in BFA, a couple small appearances in the Battle for Lordaeron, 1 MAJOR moment in the Void Elf questline (HER ONLY BIG FUCKING MOMENT), is barely shown in Naz'jatar, AND ISN'T EVEN IN 8.3 OUTSIDE OF HER POST-N'ZOTH DEATH SPEECH IN STORMWIND WITH TURALYON!

And she's not even in the Shadowlands. Did I forget to mention that Alleria's been AFK since WC2?

Oh wait, I forgot, she was also in 1 Audio Drama for 7.3, where she wanted to delve into the Void, was told no 3 times, had like 2 visions of Argus, and was imprisoned throughout most of the drama cause Xe'ra was like "as purple thingy bad"

Compared to LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE, INCLUDING FUCKING KHADGAR (Who showed up from WoD to Legion, AND STILL TURNED OUT AS ONE OF WOW'S BEST CHARACTERS), she sucks.

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They were always children playing at a dangerous game really. Sargeras was so demented that he was willing to flip the whole table just to win the game, but instead he ended up losing everything.

Kil'jaeden was originally the fucker that PLANNED/MADE the Lich King though, prior to the Jailer retcon. And Sargeras was still the lord of the Legion, and slapped the fuck out of the Titan Pantheon, and prior to the Void Lord addition, WAS THE BIGGEST BAD IN WoW!!!!

Now, with Shadowlands, everyone got fucked, and the Jailer (As well as the maybe the Void Lords) is the "TRUE EVIL! OMGNL>HFGINKLM!" Like...the fuck?!

[Varodoc]

Alleria is in like, 2 quests throughout all of Argus excluding Mac'aree, 1 pretty big questline at Mac'aree, 2 secret interactions, and in some small dialogue scenes at Antorus in 7.3, a small book, 2 chats with Turalyon in BFA, a couple small appearances in the Battle for Lordaeron, 1 MAJOR moment in the Void Elf questline (HER ONLY BIG FUCKING MOMENT), is barely shown in Naz'jatar, AND ISN'T EVEN IN 8.3 OUTSIDE OF HER POST-N'ZOTH DEATH SPEECH IN STORMWIND WITH TURALYON!

EXACTLY. Alleria has such brief screentime in WoW, and yet people never shut up on how she's so dangerous, careless, etc. and making theories on how her story will develop (alongside Turalyon's).

I mean, just look at some people on this forum. She's living in their heads rent-free, so imagine if she had more screentime (well actually you won't have to imagine for long)

Kil'jaeden was originally the fucker that PLANNED/MADE the Lich King though, prior to the Jailer retcon. And Sargeras was still the lord of the Legion, and slapped the fuck out of the Titan Pantheon, and prior to the Void Lord addition, WAS THE BIGGEST BAD IN WoW!!!!

Now, with Shadowlands, everyone got fucked, and the Jailer (As well as the maybe the Void Lords) is the "TRUE EVIL! OMGNL>HFGINKLM!" Like...the fuck?!

The Jailer is just a diversion before the great war really. 10.0 will be about the Void Lords, Light, and First Ones.

It's patch 10.0 after all, a great milestone that ought to be celebrated in style.

[Nerovar]

They were always children playing at a dangerous game really. Sargeras was so demented that he was willing to flip the whole table just to win the game, but instead he ended up losing everything.

Yeah, brilliant way to treat the most feared, dangerous and cunning creatures of the Warcraft universe - make them look like inept children to promote your new nameless bad guy who supposedly manipulated them all along in the most ridiculous "just as planned" manner you could possibly conceive.