Should TBC come with a gold wipe? Why or why not?

[Synical123]

You're cherry picking, Scholo farming also gives you high amounts of raw gold. Most greys sell for 75-1G and you're getting 20-30 per run on average~ish, PLUS the ungodly amount of Runecloth PLUS the average of 7-10 Silver per mob.

It just also has highly desirable drops on top of it.

Doubly so if you're an enchanter and sell shards.

I mean, oh no, you're just making 75G per hour instead of 100. Same problem though.

I’m not cherry picking I’m telling you how it is. The reason they farm this isn’t for the raw gold farm, it’s because of runes and enchanting materials.

Where are you getting these numbers for grey items for tbc dude? This is just straight up not true at all you literally just made all those numbers up lol. You do not make that much gold raw gold farming scholo.

Edit: and once again, for the final time, even though you JUST SAID that I better not use this excuse, you do not include ANY gold you are making on the AH. This is not the point of discussion. The point of discussion is how raw gold farming effects the economy, not valuable pieces that people EXCHANGE gold for.

[ymirsson]

Thanks for confirming that you have nothing to add. If you choose to learn more about how these things work I’ll be here to help.

Adding nothing to nothing? And if i were to chose to learn more, i would ask someone who has any knowledge of the subject.

[Synical123]

Adding nothing to nothing? And if i were to chose to learn more, i would ask someone who has any knowledge of the subject.

I’m telling you a ton of objective realities that are happening not only in classic wow right now, but if fairly common sense. Like more inflation = higher prices, and you straight up refuse to accept this as true. I’m not an expert, but you are hilariously behind when it comes to a discussion like this that it’s not even funny anymore.

[chrisnumbers]

If you aren’t a classic vet, and get epic flying day one, you are NOT just farming this stuff yourself. Period. If you don’t understand why, then you don’t understand tbc

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*admits everything in the AH will be insanely overpriced and no one can afford besides people with tens of thousands of gold*

“I see no problem here, this is fine”

Lol

You seem to think as if there is absolutely no room for each player to find materials. As if there is only 1 spot for each type of material to be gathered. As if the people who are farming mats and the people who are buying farmed mats are some tiny group of people who will manage to be the only ones with access to Outland. As if "early on" is the only moment in time when players will be playing. As if being best-in-slot with full consumables is the only way to clear Karazhan. As if the average player will even care or be affected by a gold wipe one way or the other.

[ymirsson]

If you dont even process what i write, what use is there in responding to your useless blabber?

[Synical123]

If you dont even process what i write, what use is there in responding to your useless blabber?

The only things you are writing is things I already specifically addressed and “you have baseless claims”. You aren’t saying anything. I specifically asked you to point out a specific issue you have with what I’m saying and you said nothing, as well as also saying you don’t think inflation effects prices, or that I just “think” it does or it’s my “opinion” that it does. This isn’t an opinion, it’s reality.

[ymirsson]

This isn’t an opinion, it’s reality.

That's what you always repeat, but that's like an mental ward inmate saying he is Napoleon.
I never said inflation effects don't effect prices, i said the amount of gold ingame is not the reason for corrupted economies ingame, just a symptom. Removing gold is like putting a bandaid on a breaking dam.

[Synical123]

That's what you always repeat, but that's like an mental ward inmate saying he is Napoleon.
I never said inflation effects don't effect prices, i said the amount of gold ingame is not the reason for corrupted economies ingame, just a symptom. Removing gold is like putting a bandaid on a breaking dam.

I always repeat it because it’s true. Inflation increases prices of goods. I told you this multiple times for my arguments and you keep saying it’s all “baseless” acting like what I just said isn’t true. I can quote you again to remind you what you have said during this conversation.

And what you just said “ i said the amount of gold ingame is not the reason for corrupted economies ingame, just a symptom. ”

Literally makes no sense at all. Once again if there is something you SPECIFICALLY want to call out in my arguments please do so, so I can explain it to you once again.

[ymirsson]

And what you just said “ i said the amount of gold ingame is not the reason for corrupted economies ingame, just a symptom. ”

Literally makes no sense at all.

I'm almost sorry i'm not a native speaker. But then, i doubt you can grasp the meaning even if i were.

I donÄt think it's a problem of conflicting language skills, but rather an intellectual shortcoming on the reader's side.

[Synical123]

I'm almost sorry i'm not a native speaker. But then, i doubt you can grasp the meaning even if i were.

I donÄt think it's a problem of conflicting language skills, but rather an intellectual shortcoming on the reader's side.

When someone specifically asks you to point out a flaw in their argument, or even to just expand on your argument itself, and this is all you have to say, it’s a clear sign that you have nothing to offer. Language barrier or not, you are proving yourself to be extremely out of your league here.

[Tsyplenk]

When someone specifically asks you to point out a flaw in their argument, or even to just expand on your argument itself, and this is all you have to say, it’s a clear sign that you have nothing to offer. Language barrier or not, you are proving yourself to be extremely out of your league here.

Oh yeah, because your argument of "NUH UH" is far superior.

[Asrialol]

Just make it a stand-alone thing like Classic is. There's no reason to have classic convert over to TBC. Then whoopdidoo, suddenly people won't have classic anymore and we're right back where we started.

Meaning, Classic servers = level from 1, start fresh. TBC servers = level from 1, start fresh. Wrath servers = level from 1, start fresh. Nothing else makes sense. At all. Classic was a standalone feature, not a total reset. There's no reason for Blizzard to continue the patch and expansion cycles on classic when that will remove classic from their portfolio.

Copy characters from classic to TBC? Fuck no, it's a standalone product. There's no interaction between classic and retail, there will be no interaction between classic and tbc.

[Relapses]

Inflation existed in WOW before there was ever a wow token, and it still does. I don't see your point.

Inflation severely impacts new/returning players far more than it does those who've played through prior expansions. The entire reason the token was introduced was because inflation had reached a level where the only logical choice for players who wanted to be able to afford anything was to buy Chinese WoW gold. The scenario where we go into TBC with inflation at the level it is now mirrors that of what it was when it was initially introduced in WoD. The problem is that there exist a huge demographic of players who will not simply "pull themselves by their bootstraps" and "just farm," as has been repeatedly suggested by proponents of no gold wipe. They'll do the far easier thing: Quit (since most people likely do not want to risk compromising their account). The bottom line is that without an easy outlet for new/returning players to generate gold, Blizzard is settimg themselves up for a situation where the only people who will stick around in the new expansion are those who've already made their fortunes in Classic. And who knows... maybe Blizzard is okay with that. But it doesn't hurt to at least address the issue and explore possible solutions.

[TJ]

Inflation severely impacts new/returning players far more than it does those who've played through prior expansions. The entire reason the token was introduced was because inflation had reached a level where the only logical choice for players who wanted to be able to afford anything was to buy Chinese WoW gold. The scenario where we go into TBC with inflation at the level it is now mirrors that of what it was when it was initially introduced in WoD. The problem is that there exist a huge demographic of players who will not simply "pull themselves by their bootstraps" and "just farm," as has been repeatedly suggested by proponents of no gold wipe. They'll do the far easier thing: Quit (since most people likely do not want to risk compromising their account). The bottom line is that without an easy outlet for new/returning players to generate gold, Blizzard is settimg themselves up for a situation where the only people who will stick around in the new expansion are those who've already made their fortunes in Classic. And who knows... maybe Blizzard is okay with that. But it doesn't hurt to at least address the issue and explore possible solutions.

Not everyone has a fortune in Classic like people seemingly think. Sure, there are people that have a lot of gold and easily enough to cover TBC, but I still know a lot of people that have less than 1000g and have always struggled to have raid mats, especially when there's fights like the ones in Naxx which require numerous consumables and you will wipe.

Not specifically at you, but I get the vibe that a lot of people in this thread seem to think everyone is loaded with 10k+ gold and mats piled for the ages.

[Accendor]

There’s literally 14 pages of people explaining why. I’ve explained it myself probably 15 times alone. Go search my name in these threads I don’t need to type up a multi paragraph explanation again.

Actually my answer was meant to simply state "all the pro arguments are bullshit"

[Synical123]

Actually my answer was meant to simply state "all the pro arguments are bullshit"

You mind explaining just exactly why you think they are? Because all the ones I’ve seen make complete sense. Tell me the argument you are talking about and tell me why you think it’s bad. And try to just stay away from the saying “cuz you delete my gold that’s why it’s bad”

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Oh yeah, because your argument of "NUH UH" is far superior.

I’ve had a ton of real, thought out, arguments that were multiple paragraphs long. It’s literally on the page just before this. I haven’t a clue what you’re talking about unless you meant to quote the other guy

[Hinastorm]

You are confusing.
Why does someone has to rely on other people to obtain his set, buying it even?
And if it indeed happens that way, because all farms are controlled and all crafters are in some kind of mafia, is the problem really the gold people brought from classic? Isn't it the organized crime ring selling you equipment?

I never said anyone HAS to rely on someone to make a set. You brought that into the discussion.

My point is that the rich players will instantly be able to buy alot of BiS items. I personally think that is a problem, and i'm one of the richer players. I think it takes alot away from the experience to just come into BC horrendously rich. Almost no one went into original BC with 10k+ gold. Now it's going to be tons of people.

To answer your last point, both are a problem.

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There's the option that is absolutely free from gold which is to farm the mats. Mats don't just poof into existence you know. Someone has to get them, such as players playing the game.

I never said otherwise.

My point is that the rich players, including myself, will be able to almost instantly craft all these BiS items. I personally think that is a problem from a gameplay standpoint.

As for farming the items, the competition is going to be tremendous. I can go to the AH and instantly buy my 20 primals. Someone farming them is probably going to get 1 an hour, at best, with all the competition.

[Synical123]

I never said anyone HAS to rely on someone to make a set. You brought that into the discussion.

My point is that the rich players will instantly be able to buy alot of BiS items. I personally think that is a problem, and i'm one of the richer players. I think it takes alot away from the experience to just come into BC horrendously rich. Almost no one went into original BC with 10k+ gold. Now it's going to be tons of people.

To answer your last point, both are a problem.

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I never said otherwise.

My point is that the rich players, including myself, will be able to almost instantly craft all these BiS items. I personally think that is a problem from a gameplay standpoint.

As for farming the items, the competition is going to be tremendous. I can go to the AH and instantly buy my 20 primals. Someone farming them is probably going to get 1 an hour, at best, with all the competition.

And 20 really won’t get you much in terms of gear. The frozen shadoeweave which is like maybe half of your entire set you’ll normally get as a lock/shadow priest is like 74 primals. On a fresh server this is normally around 2kish gold, obviously depends on server. But you put this in an inflated one? Christ it could be in the range of ten thousand or more. Good luck getting this as a newer/broke player without buying gold

[Kralljin]

Just make it a stand-alone thing like Classic is. There's no reason to have classic convert over to TBC. Then whoopdidoo, suddenly people won't have classic anymore and we're right back where we started.

The general consensus among the playerbase has been that forever Classic servers should exist, considering that Classic runs on the modern server engine there is virtually no reason for Blizzard to not at the very least provide an option to transfer / copy your character to a Classic server if you upgrade the current ones to TBC.

Meaning, Classic servers = level from 1, start fresh. TBC servers = level from 1, start fresh. Wrath servers = level from 1, start fresh. Nothing else makes sense. At all. Classic was a standalone feature, not a total reset. There's no reason for Blizzard to continue the patch and expansion cycles on classic when that will remove classic from their portfolio.

Copy characters from classic to TBC? Fuck no, it's a standalone product. There's no interaction between classic and retail, there will be no interaction between classic and tbc.

Then you're going to lose a lot of people in the process.
Leveling in TBC still takes time, hitting 58 isn't something you do on a weekend as regular player, despite the leveling nerfs and slight changes made during TBC to the Classic leveling experience.

Not everyone will be willing to put themselves through almost the same experience merely two years after Classic release.

If you go for the "58 Pre made" alternative, you essentially nuke the old world, because it's pointless as everybody will obviously use Pre made characters, not to mention you would have to resolve a variety of issues such as Professions, how many pre mades are allowed, whether they're a timed thing or not and so forth.

[Synical123]

The general consensus among the playerbase has been that forever Classic servers should exist, considering that Classic runs on the modern server engine there is virtually no reason for Blizzard to not at the very least provide an option to transfer / copy your character to a Classic server if you upgrade the current ones to TBC.

Then you're going to lose a lot of people in the process.
Leveling in TBC still takes time, hitting 58 isn't something you do on a weekend as regular player, despite the leveling nerfs and slight changes made during TBC to the Classic leveling experience.

Not everyone will be willing to put themselves through almost the same experience merely two years after Classic release.

If you go for the "58 Pre made" alternative, you essentially nuke the old world, because it's pointless as everybody will obviously use Pre made characters, not to mention you would have to resolve a variety of issues such as Professions, how many pre mades are allowed, whether they're a timed thing or not and so forth.

I’m just going to ask, what’s the point of hanging on to certain points of the old world after a certain point? There will still be major activity in numerous parts of the old world even with a template design. Why would we need to grasp onto the 1-58 experience if you truly wish to not do it. If you force people into it who really don’t want to do it anymore, they just won’t play anymore. If you really want to experience 1-58, you are free to do so.

Go onto any server right now and level 1-60 yourself outside of boosting, it’s basically already a deserted zone with random level 60s fishing.