How to repair the Horde.

[omeomorfismo]

When i need your counselling i will knock on a trash can lid and ask if you have anything to say.
Alliance forces came there after Genn and his people were rescued by night elves and Genn was presented before Varian, restoring Gilneas as part of the Alliance.

in fact, then alliance attacked the horde.
the horde never attacked an alliance member, genn was indipendent, then it all changed.
see, even your trash can can teach you something

[VladlTutushkin]

in fact, then alliance attacked the horde.
the horde never attacked an alliance member, genn was indipendent, then it all changed.
see, even your trash can can teach you something

Not really. It was an attack on a neutral kingdom, not just neutral even but extremely reclusive and basically withdrawn from all conflicts. Kingdom that was NOT on good terms with Alliance too. It only became a member because Genn had no choice and HAD to swallow his pride and dislike of Wrynn to get his people shelter and help for his fallen/falling Kingdom. Large amount of worgen and gilneans remained there after all, fighting against the horde as guerrillas.
If horde was smarter you could have netted in vorgen yourself...

[Grazrug]

This entire "the horde is dead/suffering/destroyed" narrative feels like the biggest forum circlejerk I've ever seen tbh.

Within the game's actual story, without people overanalyzing a poorly-written Warhammer ripoff, there's nothing actually wrong with the current Horde. It's doing pretty okay without Sylvanas, aside from the whole abduction thing. This feels like personal fanfic where you have decided that you like your headcanon better and you're going to talk from that narrative instead of what's presented in the game itself.

The current Horde is dead. Its full of alliance appeasing peace mongers and C-tier lore characters fully underdeveloped to function as racial Leaders. It needs proper fixing. My OP can help with that.

[mickybrighteyes]

And Zandalari started that by themselves in Cata and Pandaria.

Lore makes this a stretch.

Cata was troll nations yet but not ones tied to zandalar, being promised ties but we then invaded those nations pre-emptively. MoP was alliance/horde vanguard forces shoving their nose into Mogu/Zul antics

I mena if you want to say that's enough of a reason to say Zandalar itself was asking for it, I'd argue thats like saying Azeroth deserved the orcish invasion because the Guardian summoned it in.

Then the ONLY reason Alliance came to Zuldazar was the horde base there and the fact zandalari troops attacked Boralus together with the horde.

The alliance fleet was already invading the harbor of dazarlor with the first intro cinematic with the Talanji chase scene where they ran head first into the Zandalari navy. They then were already establishing the alliance bases and destroying boats in the region before the siege of boralus. The whole story is fubar'd for trying to make the alliance look anything REMOTELY diplomatic.

Alliance would have never being there if trolls thanked horde for saving their princess with a pile of gold the size of Brutosaur and sent them away in peace OR if they were not literally sending soldiers to attack Boralus.

From the way the story unfolded it doesn't look like there was any attempt to disern anything form alliance PoV. It was all the horde and Talanji escaped to Zandalar and alliance high command was "well fuck, if they're in league".. *plans war on zandalar before even getting there*

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Sylvanas is the true Queen of the forsaken. No amount of awful writing from Blizzard will change that.

just wait, the next round of forsaken are mopey sad not-humans sad that they're not human is going to come around with only the token psychopath warmongers to remind us that horde is really evil at heart.

[omeomorfismo]

Not really. It was an attack on a neutral kingdom, not just neutral even but extremely reclusive and basically withdrawn from all conflicts. Kingdom that was NOT on good terms with Alliance too. It only became a member because Genn had no choice and HAD to swallow his pride and dislike of Wrynn to get his people shelter and help for his fallen/falling Kingdom. Large amount of worgen and gilneans remained there after all, fighting against the horde as guerrillas.
If horde was smarter you could have netted in vorgen yourself...

infact, the alliance attacked the horde from that point. you want to repeat my words some other times?

[Dazmalak]

There is no fixing the Horde; it's dead. Between woke politics, morality police, and unimaginative writers copy/pasting every cookie cutter comic book trope under the sun, there is no chance the Horde ever becomes anything other than "generic good guys but with green skin wearing red". They've fully bought into #TeamAzeroth at this point and the comically (or cosmically) bad expanded universe they're trying to push. Here is a new bad guy with Death powers. Next you can fight the same generic bad guy but with Void powers. Coming soon is generic bad guy with Light powers. Each one more powerful than the last! They'll make sure to sprinkle a healthy dose of nostalgia and pop culture for good measure. Because none of that is "cringe" in the slightest.

[VladlTutushkin]

infact, the alliance attacked the horde from that point. you want to repeat my words some other times?

Horde was already attacking first, the fact that Worgens joined the Alliance does not change that. They were also still in their kingdom, Crowley and his men at least, so you cant say that they “abandoned” it. Genn left and lot of civilians did but obviously not all of them since there was a whole army of “forest fighters” so to say sneaking around.
If a country under attack joins some defensive coalition that does not make them aggressor in a conflict, they were already on a defense prior to the joining and war havent stopped.

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There is no fixing the Horde; it's dead. Between woke politics, morality police, and unimaginative writers copy/pasting every cookie cutter comic book trope under the sun, there is no chance the Horde ever becomes anything other than "generic good guys but with green skin wearing red". They've fully bought into #TeamAzeroth at this point and the comically (or cosmically) bad expanded universe they're trying to push. Here is a new bad guy with Death powers. Next you can fight the same generic bad guy but with Void powers. Coming soon is generic bad guy with Light powers. Each one more powerful than the last! They'll make sure to sprinkle a healthy dose of nostalgia and pop culture for good measure. Because none of that is "cringe" in the slightest.

You know, looking at the posters above... maybe thats for the best.

[Grazrug]

Lore makes this a stretch.

Cata was troll nations yet but not ones tied to zandalar, being promised ties but we then invaded those nations pre-emptively. MoP was alliance/horde vanguard forces shoving their nose into Mogu/Zul antics

I mena if you want to say that's enough of a reason to say Zandalar itself was asking for it, I'd argue thats like saying Azeroth deserved the orcish invasion because the Guardian summoned it in.


The alliance fleet was already invading the harbor of dazarlor with the first intro cinematic with the Talanji chase scene where they ran head first into the Zandalari navy. They then were already establishing the alliance bases and destroying boats in the region before the siege of boralus. The whole story is fubar'd for trying to make the alliance look anything REMOTELY diplomatic.


From the way the story unfolded it doesn't look like there was any attempt to disern anything form alliance PoV. It was all the horde and Talanji escaped to Zandalar and alliance high command was "well fuck, if they're in league".. *plans war on zandalar before even getting there*

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just wait, the next round of forsaken are mopey sad not-humans sad that they're not human is going to come around with only the token psychopath warmongers to remind us that horde is really evil at heart.

The forsaken have enough good characters on their own. We dont need Calia.

Belmont, Faranell, Mortuus, the black bride, Alexi Barock, Voss, Velonara,

Blizzard just needs to use them instead of that alliance sleeper agent called Calia.

[VladlTutushkin]

Lore makes this a stretch.

Cata was troll nations yet but not ones tied to zandalar, being promised ties but we then invaded those nations pre-emptively. MoP was alliance/horde vanguard forces shoving their nose into Mogu/Zul antics

I mena if you want to say that's enough of a reason to say Zandalar itself was asking for it, I'd argue thats like saying Azeroth deserved the orcish invasion because the Guardian summoned it in.


The alliance fleet was already invading the harbor of dazarlor with the first intro cinematic with the Talanji chase scene where they ran head first into the Zandalari navy. They then were already establishing the alliance bases and destroying boats in the region before the siege of boralus. The whole story is fubar'd for trying to make the alliance look anything REMOTELY diplomatic.


From the way the story unfolded it doesn't look like there was any attempt to disern anything form alliance PoV. It was all the horde and Talanji escaped to Zandalar and alliance high command was "well fuck, if they're in league".. *plans war on zandalar before even getting there*

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just wait, the next round of forsaken are mopey sad not-humans sad that they're not human is going to come around with only the token psychopath warmongers to remind us that horde is really evil at heart.

Its almost like you cry that you dont want a villain bat and then desperatelt beg for it to be shoved up your anuses as hard as possible and without any lube. Can you decide what you want? Bloodcrazed swarm of lunatics or “muh resource war galore” with wanton takeover of any land you like or something less prone to end up called “evil”.

[Soon-TM]

Blizzard just needs to use them instead of that alliance sleeper agent called Calia.

Are you really expecting Blizzard to take the spotlight away from one of Blanduin's BFFs?

[omeomorfismo]

Horde was already attacking first, the fact that Worgens joined the Alliance does not change that. They were also still in their kingdom, Crowley and his men at least, so you cant say that they “abandoned” it. Genn left and lot of civilians did but obviously not all of them since there was a whole army of “forest fighters” so to say sneaking around.
If a country under attack joins some defensive coalition that does not make them aggressor in a conflict, they were already on a defense prior to the joining and war havent stopped.

the problem here isnt gilneas, but alliance, they are the aggressor in the war between horde ally.
the fact that they used genn as another casus belli doesnt change anything

[VladlTutushkin]

the problem here isnt gilneas, but alliance, they are the aggressor in the war between horde ally.
the fact that they used genn as another casus belli doesnt change anything

And Genn was supposed to just let his people die? There are only two major powers in Azeroth and when one suddenly goes ham and rampages through your kingdom you only have another to call for help. Horde havent even left him a smallest chance at parley which he would have taken because he hated Wrynns as uptight snobs who look down on him.

[Grazrug]

Are you really expecting Blizzard to take the spotlight away from one of Blanduin's BFFs?

I fight the good fight against story tyranny. Calia is an alliance puppet. I will never accept her as ruler of anything.

[omeomorfismo]

And Genn was supposed to just let his people die? There are only two major powers in Azeroth and when one suddenly goes ham and rampages through your kingdom you only have another to call for help. Horde havent even left him a smallest chance at parley which he would have taken because he hated Wrynns as uptight snobs who look down on him.

genn could even summon sargeras for all i care, still
before no horde-ally fighting
then yes horde-ally fights
what changed? nelf went here and varian suddendly changed his mind and attacked

[mickybrighteyes]

Its almost like you cry that you dont want a villain bat and then desperatelt beg for it to be shoved up your anuses as hard as possible and without any lube. Can you decide what you want? Bloodcrazed swarm of lunatics or “muh resource war galore” with wanton takeover of any land you like or something less prone to end up called “evil”.

what the hell are you talking about?

This post makes no sense so can you please shoe the train of thought you seem to have missed the stop on?

I won't lie I hate how the story always goes on as though the horde is ALWAYS the bad guys, ALWAYS starting shit. Somehow watching the alliance initiate assassination plots, starting wars (and then having it NOT start the war) or just plain leaving anything less than good as somehow the right course of action is getting old.

Now then there are very reasonable steps to conflict that can and should be acknowledged that just plain aren't. For the zandalari thing there is a very apparent issue where we are dealig with puppet states in the lore and everyone fast tracks to the fact that Zul, prophet of the Zanchuli Council was behind everything but forgets that the story had US (i.e. Alliance and Horde) invading troll nations to curb stomp some bitches... and then play it off like "the were coming right for us!"

Right now it looks very much like alliance can go wherever and do whatever and it's totally fine. barge into a foreign nation guns blazing? that nation deserved to get smacked! Destroy boats and local goods in nation before making diplmatic actions? AGAIN that nation CLEARLY deserves it for why else are we here! We're the good guys! *torches a vulpera caravan*

edit:

i also do have a problem with every conflict getting dumbed down into some pointless everything must die as one side's major position. When BFA hit it off in the PREPATCH that there was a war on life/hope. Too much. Also no build up beyond npc death cry voice lines.

conflict can serve a purpose and "muh resources" is a very valid one when utilized properly and not just twisted into "no survivors" at every chance.

[VladlTutushkin]

genn could even summon sargeras for all i care, still
before no horde-ally fighting
then yes horde-ally fights
what changed? nelf went here and varian suddendly changed his mind and attacked

There was one nelf and for another reason entirely - she was searching for the Scythe of Elune. Then others came in but only to evacuate the worgen and civilians away. And Varian changed his mind because horde wanted Gilneas as a staging ground for an assault on Alliance territories, which they did not hide at all and he HAD to do something about it despite not being a fan of Genn either.
And in general - why horde even fucken came up with idea of exterminating all Gilneans, worgen or not instead of idk, just taking over and forcing Genn into surrender?

[mickybrighteyes]

There was one nelf and for another reason entirely - she was searching for the Scythe of Elune. Then others came in but only to evacuate the worgen and civilians away. And Varian changed his mind because horde wanted Gilneas as a staging ground for an assault on Alliance territories, which they did not hide at all and he HAD to do something about it despite not being a fan of Genn either.
And in general - why horde even fucken came up with idea of exterminating all Gilneans, worgen or not instead of idk, just taking over and forcing Genn into surrender?

they were writing Garrosh as an incompetent warmonger and tyrant whose word was law. Garrosh wanted a horde base, not human subjects.

[omeomorfismo]

There was one nelf and for another reason entirely - she was searching for the Scythe of Elune. Then others came in but only to evacuate the worgen and civilians away. And Varian changed his mind because horde wanted Gilneas as a staging ground for an assault on Alliance territories, which they did not hide at all and he HAD to do something about it despite not being a fan of Genn either.
And in general - why horde even fucken came up with idea of exterminating all Gilneans, worgen or not instead of idk, just taking over and forcing Genn into surrender?

and so alliance attacked the horde. im not discussing motivation, but events.
the
alliance
attacked
the
horde


because garrosh strategy was to use the forsaken army as dispensable meatshield (*waiting wildberry for the yearly discussion about that*).

[Kauko]

Horde is broken since they started transforming Thrall in what he is now. Who read the books knows what a badass Thrall was. We all know how good he was in WC3. We all got chills when we arrived to the Valley of Wisdom and saw the real Thrall. Thrall WAS the horde, he made it and we all fell in love with it.

But with Cata, they just started ruining Thrall as a character and Horde as a faction. Suddenly, from a tactical genius, unbeatable warrior, respected leader... he became someone that knows nothing, cant decide about anything, acts like an amateur... just like Bain. He was THE alpha, now he is not even gama... just some pawn in the story. Everyone grew stronger and stronger, he went the other way.

[qwerty123456]

Its funny how Alliance fanatics just want high elves and less horses while the Horde fanatics want to be super badass warmongers who never lose, start a war, and beat the Alliance who they call the good guys but don't want to be seen as villians after wiping out said good guys.... lol

The current Horde is dead. Its full of alliance appeasing peace mongers and C-tier lore characters fully underdeveloped to function as racial Leaders. It needs proper fixing. My OP can help with that.

Hate to break it to you but the new Horde created for World of Warcraft wanted peace from the beginning. Heck even at the end of Warcraft 3 the old Horde wanted peace. Thrall and Voljin just fucked up on picking successors.