Slice and Dice back seems like 3 steps backward

[Exeris]

I'm fine with SnD for sub, with talents keeping it up most of the time and occasional refreshes when necessary, the 50% attack speeds also help remove some of the sluggish combat, makes playing WoW more enjoyable for me.

I haven't tried Assa and a bit torn on outlaw, but as long as I don't have to waste time and combo points on roll the bones, the (in my opinion) worst ability they've ever designed for rogues(maybe entire game).

Were you would constantly reroll effectively giving it, what was it? about a 40% miss rate? ..it felt awful even if the end result was good.

[Feril]

Slice and Dice should just work like the Alacrity talent: your REAL finishers speed you up, and nothing of value would be lost (and the talent would just make it better or something).

It just doesn't feel right as a standalone ability when it's just a dumb brainless maintenance excuse for a plain and boring buff.

[shoegazing]

Slice and Dice should just work like the Alacrity talent: your REAL finishers speed you up, and nothing of value would be lost (and the talent would just make it better or something).

It just doesn't feel right as a standalone ability when it's just a dumb brainless maintenance excuse for a plain and boring buff.

Nothing is brainless about finisher diversity. You would likely be happy if Backstab and Eviscerate were the only buttons left. "Mommy I want my damage NOW!"

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Here's a video that sums up most of the WoW fanbase that clamored for ruinous changes that led the game to the first big prune, through some of the more hazardous Legion redesign and finally to BfA:

This really does sum up the problems with modern class design very nicely. The class designers think we are a bunch of retards with a 2 second attention span, and unfortunately a lot of people on this forum are proving them correct.

[prwraith]

Good Now they can just kill off the dumbass pirate spec and just bring back proper Combat with talents for specific weapon types.

Oh yes, go back to the mindless hit your savage roar / inquisition / slicendice button at x intervals.

As opposed to hitting roll the bones, making a decision based on the buffs you get and then rotating correctly.

Yes bring back combat for the shit rogue players who need handicaps.

[Feril]

Nothing is brainless about finisher diversity. You would likely be happy if Backstab and Eviscerate were the only buttons left. "Mommy I want my damage NOW!"

Huh, of course, "finisher diversity". We can have a finisher that makes our combo points another color! A finisher that makes our crits pop out fireworks! A finisher that makes the enemy cry for 36 seconds! You'd LiKeLy be happy with that, it seems, since your concept of diversity is boring empty space just for the sake of having "things".

I'm sure you'd be happy with that.

Or maybe not, because those things weren't there from the beginning and the Firstborn Rogue was the only rogue. Classic. Iconic. Yeah.

Good Lord... Slice and Dice because finisher diversity, what the actual hell. You want Slice and Dice because finisher diversity but you don't want anything else than Slice and Dice because that's a classic rogue thingy.

[shoegazing]

Huh, of course, "finisher diversity". We can have a finisher that makes our combo points another color! A finisher that makes our crits pop out fireworks! A finisher that makes the enemy cry for 36 seconds! You'd LiKeLy be happy with that, it seems, since your concept of diversity is boring empty space just for the sake of having "things".

I'm sure you'd be happy with that.

Or maybe not, because those things weren't there from the beginning and the Firstborn Rogue was the only rogue. Classic. Iconic. Yeah.

Good Lord... Slice and Dice because finisher diversity, what the actual hell. You want Slice and Dice because finisher diversity but you don't want anything else than Slice and Dice because that's a classic rogue thingy.

Finisher diversity is one of the things that makes older Rogue design so special. Eviscerate, Rupture, Slice and Dice, Expose Armor, Kidney Shot, Recuperate.

But you wouldn't know it if you're a spreadsheet licker that ONLY participates in PvE content and never has to think tactically about varied situations and only sees class design from the perspective of "what sequence of buttons did icyveins tell me to press to pump the most damage".

[Redroniksre]

Nothing is brainless about finisher diversity. You would likely be happy if Backstab and Eviscerate were the only buttons left. "Mommy I want my damage NOW!"

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This really does sum up the problems with modern class design very nicely. The class designers think we are a bunch of retards with a 2 second attention span, and unfortunately a lot of people on this forum are proving them correct.

Right? Rogue should not be a fun class to play, it should be a class where people who like reading timers go. Now in all seriousness, Slice and Dice feels bad to use. It doesn't exactly take skill to keep it up, it just feels like a wasted button when you have to refresh it. Now i am sure you are going to go back with your "I want my damage now!" and try to claim everyone are a bunch of babies. But yes, as a damage dealer, i want my damage now, that is the point of my class.

Are you going to try and claim that SnD is fun? That you get a rush every time you hit it? You should be able to -feel- an ability, it is like saying you would like shooter games that don't have any punch and have floaty weapons because it is -variety-!

[Alexplode]

So... Can we all agree to remove S&D for Assa, bake that damage lost on poisons/bleeds, keep it on Outlaw and merge it with symbols as an impactful non damaging finisher?


EDIT: or keep it as sub for all i care, can i have all your signatures to sent it to blizzard? :P

[shoegazing]

Right? Rogue should not be a fun class to play, it should be a class where people who like reading timers go. Now in all seriousness, Slice and Dice feels bad to use. It doesn't exactly take skill to keep it up, it just feels like a wasted button when you have to refresh it. Now i am sure you are going to go back with your "I want my damage now!" and try to claim everyone are a bunch of babies. But yes, as a damage dealer, i want my damage now, that is the point of my class.

Are you going to try and claim that SnD is fun? That you get a rush every time you hit it? You should be able to -feel- an ability, it is like saying you would like shooter games that don't have any punch and have floaty weapons because it is -variety-!

Players like that with a limited attention span are the reason that utterly stupid abilities like Convoke the Spirits exist. Everything's gotta explode with a million particles all over your screen or you get bored immediately. You have no appreciation for strategy, cunning, or the understated fantasy of the Rogue class. How base it is to have such a preference for hamfisted stupidity that only satisfies at the visual layer.

I recently watched the 1965 film The Spy Who Came In From The Cold for the first time and was blown away by the awesome plot, great acting and dialogue, the high drama and tension of it all. The whole time I couldn't help but think, why don't they make films like this any more? Why do Michael Bay and JJ Abrams get hundreds of millions of $$ to produce mindless trash?

Unfortunately, audiences are very stupid, and they love big stupid explosions.

It's a goddamn shame though when there are 36 different specs in WoW and yet the devs have so little respect for the average player, they decide all 36 specs need to be "big stupid explosions" specs. Shame on them, and more importantly, shame on all of you.

[Redroniksre]

Players like that with a limited attention span are the reason that utterly stupid abilities like Convoke the Spirits exist. Everything's gotta explode with a million particles all over your screen or you get bored immediately. You have no appreciation for strategy, cunning, or the understated fantasy of the Rogue class. How base it is to have such a preference for hamfisted stupidity that only satisfies at the visual layer.

I recently watched the 1965 film The Spy Who Came In From The Cold for the first time and was blown away by the awesome plot, great acting and dialogue, the high drama and tension of it all. The whole time I couldn't help but think, why don't they make films like this any more? Why do Michael Bay and JJ Abrams get hundreds of millions of $$ to produce mindless trash?

Unfortunately, audiences are very stupid, and they love big stupid explosions.

It's a goddamn shame though when there are 36 different specs in WoW and yet the devs have so little respect for the average player, they decide all 36 specs need to be "big stupid explosions" specs. Shame on them, and more importantly, shame on all of you.

Really? Movies are a huge difference. You can enjoy slow paced movies and fast pace and they both have their places. But i can tell you for a fact if you turned Rogues into a slow pace, boring class to play you would see numbers drop for them. Games are interactable, meaning you have a tangible affect on it and it on you. Not to mention this is a game, it is intended to be fun. It is not intended to be mechanical and slow.

[DarkAmbient]

I have never liked slice and dice. It feels boring, annoying and pointless. One of those abilities that's best baked in to the class.

[Sunderella]

So... Can we all agree to remove S&D for Assa,

Yes, as it stands, SnD has no place for Assa rogues. It's ok for the other specs.

[schwank05]

Oh yes, go back to the mindless hit your savage roar / inquisition / slicendice button at x intervals.

As opposed to hitting roll the bones, making a decision based on the buffs you get and then rotating correctly.

Yes bring back combat for the shit rogue players who need handicaps.

I just want to go back to pick X talent based on the weapons you are using and to do builder/ spender basic Sinister Strike--> Eviscerate with the occasional Slice and Dice Rogue was fun back in Wrath with Fast OH weapons. Just as Blood DK DPS needs to come back.

[delus]

I like it. Reminds me of old school combat. Now if they would replace between the eyes with rupture, it would be perfect.

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I just want to go back to pick X talent based on the weapons you are using and to do builder/ spender basic Sinister Strike--> Eviscerate with the occasional Slice and Dice Rogue was fun back in Wrath with Fast OH weapons. Just as Blood DK DPS needs to come back.

All procs and ability damage has already been normalized. If you were allowed to use dispatch, you would do competitive damage with daggers. I don't see why they should make the two play differently. As for blood DK, allow dual wield for it and unholy. Dual runeforges for 2hs. They don't need to rebalance the game around subspecs. It has been hard enough with 36 specs alone.

[shimerra]

I just want to go back to pick X talent based on the weapons you are using and to do builder/ spender basic Sinister Strike--> Eviscerate with the occasional Slice and Dice Rogue was fun back in Wrath with Fast OH weapons. Just as Blood DK DPS needs to come back.

Blood dps can stay dead and I hope it does. If I wanted to press hearstrike a billion times only to press it a billion times more I can replicate that by just breaking the E key on my keyboard. The single thing missed is DRW was a fun CD.

[Naiattavain]

Players like that with a limited attention span are the reason that utterly stupid abilities like Convoke the Spirits exist. Everything's gotta explode with a million particles all over your screen or you get bored immediately. You have no appreciation for strategy, cunning, or the understated fantasy of the Rogue class. How base it is to have such a preference for hamfisted stupidity that only satisfies at the visual layer.

I recently watched the 1965 film The Spy Who Came In From The Cold for the first time and was blown away by the awesome plot, great acting and dialogue, the high drama and tension of it all. The whole time I couldn't help but think, why don't they make films like this any more? Why do Michael Bay and JJ Abrams get hundreds of millions of $$ to produce mindless trash?

Unfortunately, audiences are very stupid, and they love big stupid explosions.

It's a goddamn shame though when there are 36 different specs in WoW and yet the devs have so little respect for the average player, they decide all 36 specs need to be "big stupid explosions" specs. Shame on them, and more importantly, shame on all of you.

jesus judge and deem these people unworthy. i agree with you shoegazing.

[schwank05]

Blood dps can stay dead and I hope it does. If I wanted to press hearstrike a billion times only to press it a billion times more I can replicate that by just breaking the E key on my keyboard. The single thing missed is DRW was a fun CD.

I loved the set rotation that you could simply memorize and repeat it was great and fun for me. I think DK should just be reverted back to Wrath where all 3 specs could Tank or DPS and you could mix and match from both. Dual Wield UNholy was fun while it lasted.

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Players like that with a limited attention span are the reason that utterly stupid abilities like Convoke the Spirits exist. Everything's gotta explode with a million particles all over your screen or you get bored immediately. You have no appreciation for strategy, cunning, or the understated fantasy of the Rogue class. How base it is to have such a preference for hamfisted stupidity that only satisfies at the visual layer.

I recently watched the 1965 film The Spy Who Came In From The Cold for the first time and was blown away by the awesome plot, great acting and dialogue, the high drama and tension of it all. The whole time I couldn't help but think, why don't they make films like this any more? Why do Michael Bay and JJ Abrams get hundreds of millions of $$ to produce mindless trash?

Unfortunately, audiences are very stupid, and they love big stupid explosions.

It's a goddamn shame though when there are 36 different specs in WoW and yet the devs have so little respect for the average player, they decide all 36 specs need to be "big stupid explosions" specs. Shame on them, and more importantly, shame on all of you.

See I don't care about spell animations, or flashy spells or any of that I have always played at Max zoom with game sound muted, I prefer fluid combat with no downtime and a set rotation is a huge plus for me. I have not seen most of my characters faces in 10+ years, I don't care about graphics hell Id take classic graphics if it meant we got fluid specs that worked well and felt good. Currently UH DK feels bad as I run out of runes and get starved from time to time Frost feels much more fluid, but just does not have the power of UH and it sucks.

[Sunderella]

As opposed to hitting roll the bones, making a decision based on the buffs you get and then rotating correctly.

Honest question here, since I haven't really looked into Combat ever since I fell out of love with the spec when it became a RNG lottery:

How exactly does RtB change the rotation so much? You either get more CP, extra SS strikes, extra energy, extra crit or that redundant buff that works like Restless Blades. I fail to see how any of those are rotation changers.

[Naiattavain]

guys if you want the rogue to change you all have to change your feelings about the subject. treat each other with respect. show love in writing. rogue will not change unless people change. i think giving out great stuff to play with is really good for humanity .stuff we can keep. make it valuable to hold.

[shimerra]

I loved the set rotation that you could simply memorize and repeat it was great and fun for me. I think DK should just be reverted back to Wrath where all 3 specs could Tank or DPS and you could mix and match from both. Dual Wield UNholy was fun while it lasted.

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Yeah I'm not a fan of rotations a blind monkey could do as long as he has a mod telling him when he's in range of the boss and is hit capped. Not like every spec needs of have random procs out the ass but every spec should have something that makes it so it's not a literal 100% no changes as long as you're in range of the boss.

But if the constant repetition without thought it was does it for you kudos. Blood being top DPS for as long as it was was my single least favorite part of the class.
The only thought blood required you to process through your head was making sure you maximized/stacked your CDs. The rest could be done by binding one half of your keyboard to your diseases and the other to heart strike and slapping your dick on the appropriate side. And honestly if you forgot to slap it on the disease side except for a few AOE situations not a big deal. It took none of the Blood Archtype, the self healing/life drain, which is what makes DK interesting and boiled your damage down to a boring warrior knock off with a clunkier resource system. Hard pass. Least interesting spec of that expansion theme and execution wise. Even less fun than when they nerfed SS so hard UH had to use obliterate.

Dual wield for UH was also a wonky pile of shit just like that machine gun IT spec that was top DPS for a while just with more pet/auto damage and Deathcoil instead of IT spam being the main source of damage. Both specs were basically abusing wonky/poor initial DK talent balance and ability scaling to come up with a boring spammy mess. Keep boring DW in frost where it belongs if we must have it.

There was a lot to like about the old system. But the parts you seem to enjoy were literal dog shit for me with the only thing I miss being the multi-spec tanking, but given their ability to execute on balancing it it's probably a good thing it's gone too. I also play with max sound/zoomed out and I've played on a PC so bad I could only see the road on my mini map, not on the actual ground itself. A lack of flashy animations was about the millionth thing down the list wrong with Blood's dps. Hell the fact that they were so boring and spammy without any sort of visual flare is a mark against their favor because it can't even claim it looks cool to play for how boring it was to execute.